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maijstral
Underboss
2105 Posts
    
 | | 05/12/2006 8:03 PM |
| I've noticed a few spells and at least two new classes that have special abilities that effect enemies and or allies.
The Divine Mind and The Dragon Shaman leap immediatly to mind as having auras that effect either enemies or allies now my question is this, what defines an enemy or an ally the mindset of the caster and/or ally or the mindset of the enemy.
To this point I have allways played it that the caster,or manifestor, know's who his allies are so the spell or effect will target the correct creatures. However with the auras of the new classes always on I got to thinking. What if the party is infitrated, an NPC spy or a PC working with the DM but against the party, to the mindset of the caster this is an ally but the infiltrator knows it is an enemy maybe not at this exact minute but at sometime he will betray the party or it might even be an ongoing effect such as passing along damaging information about the party.
And as a follow up, since most of these effects are ongoing, what if said 'ally' betrays the party in the middle of a battle would they still receive the benefits of the spell or effect or would they lose them and/or receive the negative effects if there were any.
just looking for opinions. | | | |
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zenthrus
Warlord
5132 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 05/12/2006 8:48 PM |
| Opinion:
1) Allies are the character's travelling companions (i.e. party members) and any NPCs travelling with the group who have established a trusted relationship (your infiltrator example would qualify).
2) Enemies are those who the character knows to be hostile (whether overt or not). A rival adventuring party that actively tries to one-up your party would count as enemies (not exactly malevolent, but known to be hostile to the PCs). A monster lumbering out of the brush to eat party members would obviously be an enemy. Less obvious enemies would be a nobleman at a banquet showing the height of courtesy to the PCs, but who the PCs know is trying to thwart/hinder/kill them. The PC using the ability should be allowed to consciously decide whether or not they consider this type of person to be an enemy or not (see below).
3) Allies become enemies when Charmed/Confused/Dominated/switch sides (your infiltrator example would be a switcher), or otherwise directly hostile towards the character in question.
4) Anyone who isn't a trusted companion (ally) OR a known enemy is considered neutral and neither benefits nor suffers from ally only or enemy only effects.
5) Remember, this is my opinion and may not work for everyone's game. It's worked well in the past, however, when determining effects such as Bless and Prayer.
6) Elaborate example: The PCs are helping to defend a city against a rival kingdom's invasion. The PCs have been assigned to guard one of the city entrances. With the PCs are 5 town guard, 5 mercenaries, a handful of militia (armed, untrained townsfolk), and two nobles (one has attempted to have the PCs arrested for interfering in his plans; the other is a trusted and respected figure in the PCs dealings). The entrance gate is breached by a small strike squad of elite soldiers from the rival kingdom. The PC cleric casts Bless. It affects the town guard (implicity trusted due to their position), the cleric's adventuring buddy PCs, and the trusted noble. The cleric then casts Bane which affects the elite strike squad. The cleric may choose to have the Bane NOT affect the noble that is hostile towards them because at the moment he is at least neutral (mututally defending the gate). The militia and mercenaries are virtually unknown entities and therefore neutral.
Assuming that at some point one of the mercenaries turns and stabs one of the known allies (switches sides), that mercenary would be affected by the Bane effect (beginning on the next round during the cleric's turn).
Sorry for the long post, but your question is a very good one and raises some complicated issues. A simpler method than the ony I've already outlined is to allow the cleric to choose who is an ally/enemy each round on their turn (although this could slow down battle, and that is a bad thing). | |
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maijstral
Underboss
2105 Posts
| | 05/12/2006 9:58 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by zenthrus
Opinion:
Sorry for the long post, but your question is a very good one and raises some complicated issues. A simpler method than the ony I've already outlined is to allow the cleric to choose who is an ally/enemy each round on their turn (although this could slow down battle, and that is a bad thing).
I didn't mean to imply that I would allow a cleric to choose enemies and allies from round to round. What I meant is the cleric or divine mind or dargon shaman etc.. knows who his allies are at the beggining of the battle so the spell effects them but if the ally switches sides or,from your example, the nuetral nobleman joins the battle on the side of the party would the loss or gain of special effect apply automatically.
My thought is yes and no, any person or creature that switches sides wouldn't gain the benefit or penalty of an ongoing effect and would lose any beneficial effect. You could house rule that if the cleric or manifestor is aware of the change he could apply the effect in the next round but as you stated in larger battles this could slow the battle down. | | | |
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Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 05/12/2006 9:59 PM |
| The question is interesting. What's an enemy, someone who wants you ill, or someone you hate and want dead? The dictionary says that an enemy is someone who hates another and looks to harm him. If the spell states an enemy of the caster, than it means someone who wants to harm him, so I'd say that the effect should be determined by the mindset of the other creature, not the spellcaster.
Thinking about it, it makes sense too.
If it were based on the judgement of the spellcaster, it means that a friend might be the target of the ill-effect of the spell because of an error in judgement by the spellcaster ("i think he's an enemy..."). Also, a creature that has a dozen assassins out to get him, unbeknownst to him, would die without his enemy-activated abilities or spells ever being activated. But what's a better definition of an enemy than an assassin?
I just thought of somethind and checked... The rod of alterness in the DMG will alert you if enemies come nearby. The definition of the rod specifies that it will detect enemies based on the intent of the other creature. I assume that the same should be applicable here.
IMO, everything points towards the intent of the other creature.
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