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WJA
Warrior
244 Posts
    
 | | 05/20/2006 2:06 AM |
| Ok seriously. I learned today that the platypus proof of god's sense of humor, is actually a skilled combatant, in that it's claws are poisoned! As I was orginally planning to run an elven druid/ninja (for the sheer amusement value of going 1. ghost step 2. move action wild shape - bear 3. WHAM maul you with sudden strike from invisible
"Sweet God, where did that bear come from!"
anyway ninjas are skilled with poison, long story short, I need stats for a platypus, also a giant platypus, a dire platypus, and a legendary platypus.
here's the story I heard about the platypus poison--
Dude sees a platypus on a rock, it is not moving, dude prods it with his fishing rod, nothing happens, man decides (possible darwin winner here) to pick up the platypus, at which point the platypus claws him, and the poison, while not lethal does cause a very intense pain, so much so that to quell it, a morphine drip had to be applied.
for the makeshift stats, I started with a badger and gave him a poison on his claws, and kept the badgers rage.
Thoughts? (seriously.) | |
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Cthulhufnord
Warlord
11113 Posts
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| | 05/20/2006 3:18 AM |
| | Are they realy that big? I'd use a smaller critter like a weasl ... or even a Dire rat with the aquatic subtype and a mild but dilebating poison. | |
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Sammael
Underboss
1881 Posts
| | 05/20/2006 3:37 AM |
| They are about the size of a badger, so I'd use badger stats for them, remove rage and add poison and a swim speed. For giant, dire, etc. use MM rules on advancing creatures.
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 05/20/2006 3:48 AM |
| I'd use the housecat stats, with a swim speed. Even that might have too many attacks. Lizard might be better. They're definitely not nearly as combat capable or aggressive as a badger, and only the longest platypus comes up to the length of the smallest badger (not including tail), and badgers weigh a LOT more, as noted below:
platypus: http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/information/Ornithorhynchus_anatinus.html
eurasian badger (american badgers are similar):
http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/information/Meles_meles.html
By the way, the UMich animal diversity web site is an awesome site in general for getting information about various species, I refer to it pretty frequently. | |
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smithmeg
Sergeant
508 Posts
| | 05/20/2006 7:46 AM |
| Here's another link:http://www.dpiw.tas.gov.au/inter.nsf/WebPages/BHAN-53573T?open
The poison is delivered through a spur on the hind leg - I find it hard to imagine a platypus on land using it as an offensive weapon - though in the water it might be able to.
Also, when they look for food underwater, they do not use their eyes - their bill is sensitive to the electric currents in the bodies of their prey - so, maybe a limited range blind-sight would be worth adding.
If I was trying to workout stats, I would probably give it a slam (with it's bill (as a porpoise has)) (and maybe a tail slap that can be used underwater (in advanced versions only) rather than claw or bite attacks. If you wanted to use the poison, maybe a special ability that can be used against grappling foes (or in other very close combat situations) would be closer to reality (but probably hard to make work in-game).
As mentioned by some other people, I'd go with a cat or a weasel as a starting point as a badger is too big. | | | |
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WJA
Warrior
244 Posts
| | 05/22/2006 2:18 AM |
| Thanks for all your help guys.
Any Idea what the effects of the poison would be?
Is shaken to powerful? Ability damage would seem to be not correct.
Help! | |
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reezel
Sergeant
555 Posts
| | 05/22/2006 11:34 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by WJA
Thanks for all your help guys.
Any Idea what the effects of the poison would be?
Is shaken to powerful? Ability damage would seem to be not correct.
Help!
I think it would most likely cause death by embarassment.
The article said it causes pain at most in humans but is deadly to small creatures, so I'd go with 1d3 Con damage, maybe just 1d2. | |
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WJA
Warrior
244 Posts
| | 05/23/2006 12:52 AM |
| Thanks, I think I'm going to see if a low dc poison with the shaken initially/possible damage after that or maybe shaken initial/panicked follow up. First it gets under the skin, they're a little uncomfortable, then it kicks in, and they run off in horrible pain!
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Lab Monkey
Commander
4136 Posts
| | 05/23/2006 11:19 AM |
| Couple of things to consider: The poison spur is on the animals ankel and is relatively hard to deliver. Also males are the only ones with this spur, females don't have it.
They should have an excellent swim speed and bonuses to swim checks. I'd also give them some kind of blindsense or blind sight when in the water. | |
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griffrat
Commander
3507 Posts
| | 05/23/2006 12:57 PM |
| Amphibian poisons are generally considered not well understood, as are most terrestrial toxins, as far as pure mechanisims of action.
But there are som cool things that you consider in game terms instead of just damage. Some amphibian toxins can induce hallucinations or can paralyze at small doses. Although, other venoms/toxins are down right lethal (Batrachotoxin leathal dose less than 200 micrograms).
So, I would make the posion with a fairly high DC for some sort of paralyzing/hallucination (something like 25 or 30) but have it only hit on like a 20 since as LM points out the placement of the delivery system is not the most effective. Effective as compared to a scorpion or viper.....just my thoughts...
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kyrin
Commander
3171 Posts
| | 05/23/2006 1:16 PM |
| Since the poison is not lethal, I wouldn't use CON damage. I'd go with DEX damage to simluate the intense pain, maybe 1d3. That's equivalent to a medium centipede. Make the Fort DC pretty low too, about 10-ish.
JIM
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AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 05/23/2006 1:21 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by WJA
Thanks for all your help guys.
Any Idea what the effects of the poison would be?
Is shaken to powerful? Ability damage would seem to be not correct.
Help!
Platypus poison is a powerful nuero-inhibitor which works on the pain receptors. Thus a pin prick feels like its agonizing pain and can lead the body to shock etc... its not lethal to humans though..
Shaken might be a good bet for it.
As smithmeg said its only one spur on its backside thats poisoned. Not exactly a great combatant :) | |
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Can of the Cave Beer
Commander
2838 Posts
| | 05/23/2006 8:57 PM |
| Man, I would hate to be one of griff's players...he'd be constantly rewriting the poisons! [)]
I can only imagine what wearing armor would be like or actually getting mashed with a mace...*ouch*
But, make the poison shot only deliverable in the form of a kick attack (Were-platypus Monk?), while in a grapple, on a prone target, etc. | |
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WJA
Warrior
244 Posts
| | 05/24/2006 1:33 AM |
| Thanks again guys, Darkfable, where did you get your information on the platypus? just trying to compile information.
I've told several people about this character and they respond with laughter, and then -- intense pain? like a headache? And I'm like yes, this is my mighty companion, do you need some aleve?
Now, the real munchkin in me wants to play a water sprite who uses the platypus as a mount. But that could be a whole other thread.
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Lab Monkey
Commander
4136 Posts
| | 05/24/2006 1:41 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by griffrat
Amphibian poisons are generally considered not well understood, as are most terrestrial toxins, as far as pure mechanisims of action.
Er... Are you saying that the playtpus in an Amphibian or just amphibious? | |
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griffrat
Commander
3507 Posts
| | 05/24/2006 4:40 AM |
| Just talking about amphbians....
Pointing out that poisons/venoms don't always have to do "damage" damage.....but there might be some more options in game for an interesting combo of sorts.....
Not trying to imply that a platypus is an amphibian.....[)] | |
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zenthrus
Warlord
5132 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 05/24/2006 5:17 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by WJA
Now, the real munchkin in me wants to play a water sprite who uses the platypus as a mount. But that could be a whole other thread.
Aiya! [:O]
Step away from the munchkining......
Besides, it's not like platypi move very fast [:D] | |
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griffrat
Commander
3507 Posts
| | 05/24/2006 6:38 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Can of the Cave Beer
Man, I would hate to be one of griff's players...he'd be constantly rewriting the poisons! [)]
Poisons are pretty nasty in my world as are diseases.....
But the players keep coming back for more. I think that poisons (and diseases are one of those real world things whihc makes the game more tangible.
I love the ability to modify things like this whole topic. I think there could be a ton of expansions from Dragon articles about different types of combos....
LM, Sorry I wasn't clear about the poison issue and the platypi. I was posting at work (not a shocker there), yesterday. I was in the middle of a couple of things and not really focused on the post...[:I] my bad. Glad that you asked for clairifcation....derrrr [:D] | |
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Lab Monkey
Commander
4136 Posts
| | 05/24/2006 10:04 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by griffrat
LM, Sorry I wasn't clear about the poison issue and the platypi. I was posting at work (not a shocker there), yesterday. I was in the middle of a couple of things and not really focused on the post...[:I] my bad. Glad that you asked for clairifcation....derrrr [:D]
No worries at all, I just wasn't sure where you were going with that. My original training was as a zoologist, so I'm rather anal about such things. | |
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griffrat
Commander
3507 Posts
| | 05/24/2006 10:19 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Lab Monkey
No worries at all, I just wasn't sure where you were going with that. My original training was as a zoologist, so I'm rather anal about such things.
Sure are a lot of us science types running around here....[:D] | |
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WJA
Warrior
244 Posts
| | 05/24/2006 12:32 PM |
| So kikuchiro (my ninja druid) is burdened with treasure, laden with gems and the only other person around is Ook(his platypus companion). he casts foxes cunning on Ook and asks him what they should do with the last gem, which kikuchiro can't carry.
Ook stoicly considers their situation and then replies,
" Put it on my bill. "
: )
Thanks for all the information here guys. A trained zoologist and Griffats poison knowhow really help me out. As a point of reference, a dire platypus would be medium right? My group is allowing the medium platypus, here is the current interpretation of it's stats.
Platypus
Size/Type: Tiny Animal
Hit Dice: ½ d8 (2 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), Swim 30 ft.
Armor Class: 14 (+2 size, +2 Dex), touch 14, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/ -12
Attack: Claw +4 melee ( 1d2-4) plus Debilitating Poison
Full Attack: 2 claws +4 melee ( 1d2-4) plus Debilitating Poison and bite -1 melee ( 1d3-4)
Space/Reach: 2½ ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: —
Special Qualities: Electrosense, Debilitating Poison
Saves: Fort +2, Ref +4, Will +1
Abilities: Str 3, Dex 15, Con 10, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 7
Skills: Balance +10, Climb +8, Hide +8,
Listen +6, Move Silently +8, Spot +6
Feats: Weapon FinesseB
Environment: Australia
Organization: Solitary or Mated Pair
Challenge Rating: ¼
Advancement: —
Level Adjustment: —
Electrosense (Ex): While in water, a platypus knows where all other creatures in that same body of water are, within a 60 foot radius. While outside of water, this decreases to a 10 foot radius.
Debilitating Poison (Ex): A platypus's claws emit an extremely painful poison, causing affected creatures to take 1d6 dex damage, 1d6 damage, and 1d6 subdual damage. A successful DC 10 Fortitude save negates the dex damage and the subdual damage, and halves the normal damage. The save DC is constitution based. Platypusses are immune to this poison.
and then:
Dire Platypus
Size/Type: Medium Animal
Hit Dice: 3d8 (13 hp)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares), Swim 40 ft. (8 Squares)
Armor Class: 16 (+4 Dex, +2 natural), touch 14, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +2/ +4
Attack: Claw +6 melee ( 1d6+3) plus Debilitating Poison
Full Attack: 2 Claws +6 melee ( 1d6+3) plus Debilitating Poison and 1 Bite +1 melee (1d4 + 3)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Debilitating Poison
Special Qualities: Electrosense
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +7, Will +4
Abilities: Str 14, Dex 19, Con 10, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 11
Skills: Balance +12, Climb +10, Hide +4,
Listen +8, Move Silently +10, Spot +8
Feats: Alertness, Weapon Finesse B
Environment: Australia
Organization: Solitary or mated pair
Challenge Rating: 2
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 4-6 HD (Medium); 7-9 HD (Large)
Level Adjustment: —
Electrosense (Ex): While in water, a dire platypus knows where all other creatures in that same body of water are, within a 60 foot radius. While outside of water, this decreases to a 10 foot radius.
Debilitating Poison (Ex): A dire platypus's claws emit an extremely painful poison, causing affected creatures to take 1d6 dex damage, 1d6 damage, and 1d6 subdual damage. A successful DC 13 Fortitude save negates the dex damage and the subdual damage, and halves the normal damage. The save DC is constitution based. Dire platypusses are immune to this poison.
A druid of 4th level or higher may take a dire platypus as an animal companion. Treat the druid as three levels lower than his druid level for the purpose of determining what animal companion abilities it gets.
So.... What do you guys think about that?
also for humors sake, what kind of nerfing could I give it to allow it to keep the humorous ability of the Platypus Rage?
-nerf it's damage to d4's?
-reduce it's base attack or strength?
also, how does this creature compare to the standard 4th level druid companion, meaning what is the "best" fourth level drd companion in terms of stats.
Thanks again for all your help.
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WJA
Warrior
244 Posts
| | 05/24/2006 12:51 PM |
| okay, I also found this online: this is first ed. Dnd.
Beaverduck (Giant Saltmarsh Platypus)
FREQUENCY: Very Rare
NO. APPEARING: 1
ARMOR CLASS: 6
MOVE: 6 / 12 (1)
HIT DICE: 1 1
N LAIR: 50_EM>
TREASURE TYPE: Nil
NO. OF ATTACKS: 3
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1-3 / 1-3/ 1-2
SPECIAL ATTACKS: See below, stun and spurs, 1/1 damage plus venom
SPECIAL DEFENSE: See below, camouflage
MAGIC RESISTANCE: Standard
INTELLIGENCE: Low
ALIGNMENT: Neutral Good
SIZE: S (3' 4' in length)
PSIONIC ABILITY: Nil
ATTACK/DEFENSE MODES: Nil
LEVEL/X.P. VALUE: 90 2/hp
Native to the coastal regions of the Hool Marshes, the Beaverduck, also known in scholastic circles as the Giant Saltmarsh Platypus, is thought by many to be a mystical beast in the nature of a chimera or owlbear. It combines the forms of a beaver and a duck, in a flat body three to four feet long, with the abilities of a venomous snake, electric eel and, to a lesser degree, chameleon. In truth, it is of completely natural origin.
The animal is comfortable in both salt and fresh water, preferring tidal areas where the two mix. It lives in extensive burrows and mounds that it excavates along the banks of streams, small rivers and coastlines where it finds its food, small mammals, lizards, frogs, fish, eggs and similar prey. Because of its duck-like bill, it is generally not capable of eating anything larger than it can swallow. However, it has been known to attack and kill larger animals in defense. It in turn is preyed upon by even larger animals such as crocodiles, sharks and occasionally panthers hungry enough to risk the water or actually catching one. Beaverducks tend to have very good relationships with dolphins, which they are more likely to encounter than one of their own kind, and the two animals will sometimes play together or join in a mutual attack upon a lone shark.
Its beaver-like tail, along with its webbed feet, is used to facilitate swimming and it can hold its breath underwater for up to an hour. Although shaped like that of a duck, its bill is not hard or toothless. Rather, it is covered with a leathery, furless skin. Its teeth, in multiple rows, are very small and effective mostly for gripping and discharging electricity it uses to stun its prey. Any such victim must save at 2 or be paralyzed for 1-2 rounds.
When attacking, the Beaverduck will attempt to bite and electrify as well as slash with its front claws, which are long, strong and sharp for digging and climbing. Rather than also attacking with its back claws, it additionally attacks with spurs located on its back ankles. Spur attacks require two successful claw attacks, a successful bite attack or that the victim be stunned or otherwise holding the Beverduck close. Although these spurs do little damage themselves, they inject potent venom that does 2d4 points of damage each, save for half. The Beaverduck is capable of delivering three shocks per day, as well as two venom injections per day from each spur, aside from the small discharges used in hunting.
The coloration of the Beaverduck is also unique. Its thick hide is covered with fully three coats of fur with different lengths, densities and textures; tan, brown and white. It is capable of manipulating these to appear either tan or with innumerable striped patterns so as to camouflage itself with ninety-percent effectiveness in many settings, including seafloors, underbrush and grasses. Its bill is usually tan, but when threatened out of water and not hiding it displays bright blue with red stripes. At such times, the Beaverducks long broad, almost quill-like, tan hairs will stand on end doubling the animals apparent size; its tail will present vertically swaying side to side; it will claw the ground; and it will bark aggressively with trails of electricity snapping within its mouth.
Beaverduck young are highly prized by lizardmen as at that age they may be domesticatd and trained as guard and companion animals that are safe with children. However, because they are very rare, because the young tend to stay in their burrows, and because of their ability to camouflage themselves, such pets are extremely rare.
Notes:
These are Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 1st Edition statistics.
In order to keep the module U1 The Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh fresh, having played it several times, I developed this creature to replace the pseudo-dragon pet of the lizardmen aboard the ship Sea Ghost. The special abilities of the Beverduck were suggested by those of the actual duck-billed platypus. The duck-billed platypus, about the size of a small housecat, has venomous spurs that can kill a dog and uses electrolocation to find its food underwater. Actually, only the male has such spurs beyond infancy, which could justify dimorphism for the fantasy creature along with a name a little more formidable, Dire Beaverdrake. Platypi have teeth only when very young. Their closest living relatives, the echidna, have thin beak-like mouths and some of those have spiny hair like porcupines. Such spines, together with the fact that platypi have some of the most waterproof fur in the world, having two layers, suggested camouflage
Now what do you think about these abilites, and could someone convert this to 3.5?
Thanks.
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Malin Lug
Sergeant
742 Posts
| | 05/26/2006 12:13 PM |
| Take a look:
http://www.bio.davidson.edu/people/kabernd/seminar/2001/Home/lae/platypus%20attack%201.html | |
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kyrin
Commander
3171 Posts
| | 05/26/2006 6:05 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Malin Lug
Take a look:
http://www.bio.davidson.edu/people/kabernd/seminar/2001/Home/lae/platypus%20attack%201.html
Dang! Well, if I ever see a platypus now, I am moving swiftly in the other direction! That sounds NASTY!
JIM
aka kyrin | |
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WJA
Warrior
244 Posts
| | 05/27/2006 2:09 AM |
| Ok so after that website, I really think this guy deserves some lovin'. To make him a feasable combatant, we'll have to bump him up to dire size. (medium right?) and then to deliver the poison, as per the last website, he'd have to land one or both of his back spurs, so maybe when he charges, he gets a rake with the back spurs? This would simulate the rarity, and he could also use them if he were grappling an opponent right? The circumstances are probably few and far between that he'd actually grapple something though right? Can I ask if it would be to much if I could teach grappling, or the charge rake manuver as a "trick?" Also, can he be taught to rage? I really dig the rage.
To further increase the wrongness of this character I just picked up a squeaking Ty purple platypus. Yeah, I know, it's probably disturbing. : )
Thanks for the new info, and seriously, I can't read a 1st edition stat block, could someone show me how to convert the beaver duck stats to 3.5?
Thanks guys.
(My gm thinks this companion is ridiculous.)
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