Zeb
Underboss
2027 Posts
    
 | | 05/25/2006 6:03 AM |
| A player in my game is playing a wand expert and wanted a feat that was similar in aspect to the Double Wand Wielder feat in the Complete Arcane. We came up with this...
Rapid Wand Wielder
You can activate a wand twice in one round.
Prerequisites: Craft Wand, Rapid Shot
Benefit: As a full round action, you can discharge a wand twice in a single round. When so designated the wielder pays a double charge cost for both activations, thus expending four charges instead of two. If an attack roll is required to hit the target(s), both attacks suffer a -2 penalty.
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The name is subject to change...[)] The double charge cost is based on the premise of over-taxing the item (the Double Wand Wielder feat only pays double for the second wand).
Thoughts and ideas welcome.
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Sammael
Underboss
1881 Posts
| | 05/25/2006 6:35 AM |
| | It's similar in scope to Double Wand Wielder, but somewhat less flexible. On the other hand, it expends more charges, but you still have a free hand for a weapo/shield. I think I'd allow it. | |
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Grim
Sergeant
482 Posts
| | 05/25/2006 9:29 AM |
| | I'd allow it in my games. | |
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zenthrus
Warlord
5132 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 05/25/2006 11:34 AM |
| | Seems balanced. [^] | |
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Malin Lug
Sergeant
742 Posts
| | 05/25/2006 12:17 PM |
| Seems reasonable enough. If you use the rules that allow you to recharge wands... having the craft wand skill just means that they will burn through more money and EXP to recharge their wand.
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FeranEldritchKnight
Sergeant
385 Posts
Kansas City, MO USA
| | 05/25/2006 12:18 PM |
| | I agree that it seems well-balanced. I personally would only double-tax the second use. That would balance it closer to the double wand feat. As for the extra off-hand, usually arcane casters don't use off-hand weapons or shields. There are some exceptions, and clerics would use a shield, but they don't have near as many offensive spells. I like that you prevented the double wand weilder from stacking with the rapid wand weilder by making it a full round action to double fire. | |
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Zenako
Commander
3472 Posts
| | 05/25/2006 12:22 PM |
| Do you have any non-standard wands in play or possible for making? Need to see if unexpected synergy from doubling the action of a device creates some imbalance. Right now wands are generally limited in their spell level capacity so some really unbalancing effects are out of range (spell level wise).
Would the first use take 2 charges even if the wielder then decided to not use the second charge that round (target dropped/died or something happened). Would it be 1 charge and then 3 for the second use? Just like in melee if you were planning on taking a full (multiswing attack) and your opponent drops after one hit, you can then act as if you had only taken a single strike and make a full move if you wanted to. You are not tied to your intent if the circumstances change. So the to hit penalty is in place, but other factors do not come to bear until the extra swings or wand use occurs.
Is a Double Wand Wielder (not familiar with this feat) allow use of both wands in a round? Would the Rapid Wand wielder now be able to get a total of 3 wand effects off each round?
Would haste permit another use as well (depends on how you limit haste)?
Is there any spell in the game you play that allows multiple spells to be cast in one round (like Hurried Steps). IF so then this would not be unbalancing compared to that spell. | |
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Zeb
Underboss
2027 Posts
| | 05/26/2006 12:34 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Zenako
Do you have any non-standard wands in play or possible for making? Need to see if unexpected synergy from doubling the action of a device creates some imbalance. Right now wands are generally limited in their spell level capacity so some really unbalancing effects are out of range (spell level wise).
I do not have any non-standard wands in play, although virtually any 4th-level spell or below can be crafted into a wand. This feat could allow a dual use of magic missile-9th level for a total of 10 missiles.
quote:
Would the first use take 2 charges even if the wielder then decided to not use the second charge that round (target dropped/died or something happened). Would it be 1 charge and then 3 for the second use? Just like in melee if you were planning on taking a full (multiswing attack) and your opponent drops after one hit, you can then act as if you had only taken a single strike and make a full move if you wanted to. You are not tied to your intent if the circumstances change. So the to hit penalty is in place, but other factors do not come to bear until the extra swings or wand use occurs.
I would only require the single charge be spent, but if the other attack is used, then the full 4 would be charged.
quote:
Is a Double Wand Wielder (not familiar with this feat) allow use of both wands in a round? Would the Rapid Wand wielder now be able to get a total of 3 wand effects off each round?
Interesting, I hadn't thought of that. Double Wand Wielder allows a PC to have a primary and secondary wand attack as per the two-weapon fighting feat. I think if the player tried to stack both, he would have to have the requisite number of feats and/or attacks per round.
quote:
Would haste permit another use as well (depends on how you limit haste)?
No, I use haste as per the PHB.
quote:
Is there any spell in the game you play that allows multiple spells to be cast in one round (like Hurried Steps). IF so then this would not be unbalancing compared to that spell.
Not at this time, other than swift, free, and quickened actions. | |
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ChristopherGroves
Warlord
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Zenako
Commander
3472 Posts
| | 05/26/2006 1:57 PM |
| Basically my point about trying to feret out unintended consquences to what appear to be ok feats, that sometimes can stack into a problem with other feats or skills or magic items.
Like a poorly worded spell that would boost the BAB of someone, without factoring in the extra benefit of more attacks or things like that. | |
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 05/26/2006 2:23 PM |
| You should probably write the prerequisites as:
Prerequisites: Craft Wand, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Dex 13
The standard in 3E is to include prerequisites to the prerequisites in the prerequisites list, and Rapid Shot requires Point Blank Shot, which requires Dex 13. (I should try to fit one more use of the word prerequisites in that sentence.)
I'd allow it. The prerequisites are pretty extreme for the typical character types that might take it, to the point where I'm not sure anyone would take it. Maybe a warlock... | |
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Zenako
Commander
3472 Posts
| | 05/26/2006 6:22 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by IanB
I'd allow it. The prerequisites are pretty extreme for the typical character types that might take it, to the point where I'm not sure anyone would take it. Maybe a warlock...
Probably true, since by the time you could take all the Feats you would be able to cast far more powerful spells than any wand can contain, but the added flexibility of multiple spell effects in a round can be huge. Popping off multiple Dimensional Anchors could keep multiple enemies from escaping, or multiple Holy Smites, or Order's Wrath or Chaos Hammer (pick your flavor) could really thin a hear of foes (tightly packed) or in two locations. Or along another tack, Drop a 10 die Fireball down with one, and then a Cure X Wounds with the second.
One thing that could happen is a simple thing like, Major high level wand for first blast in a round, followed by cheaper wands (for the multicharge hit) for the second and possibly third effect. I am sure most companions would not mind some of the lesser effects getting dropped down on the enemy, almost for free. The other benefit to the user is that activating a wand does not provoke AoO so you can be in the middle of trouble and use it without getting hammered.
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 05/26/2006 6:46 PM |
| | Well, to do what you're describing, you'd presumably need dual wand wielder instead. As written, this feat only allows you to activate the same wand twice. | |
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Zenako
Commander
3472 Posts
| | 05/26/2006 6:50 PM |
| | I had mentioned the possible Feat synergy above if they had both feats and if I take one, I would probably look to take the second one as well. | |
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Sammael
Underboss
1881 Posts
| | 05/26/2006 6:55 PM |
| | I don't see a problem, since Rapid Wand Wielder requires a full-round action - as does Double Wand Wielder. You can't combine the two. | |
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Total DDM Count: 1037 | No chance of finishing the set | Will finish the set | Set | |
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Zeb
Underboss
2027 Posts
| | 05/27/2006 1:57 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by IanB
You should probably write the prerequisites as:
Prerequisites: Craft Wand, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Dex 13
The standard in 3E is to include prerequisites to the prerequisites in the prerequisites list, and Rapid Shot requires Point Blank Shot, which requires Dex 13. (I should try to fit one more use of the word prerequisites in that sentence.)
I'd allow it. The prerequisites are pretty extreme for the typical character types that might take it, to the point where I'm not sure anyone would take it. Maybe a warlock...
The player in question is Fighter 4/Wizard 4. After his only weapon was sundered in the last gaming session, he was left with only a Wand of Scorching Ray and several prison guards closing in. | |
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orcdoubleax
Sergeant
694 Posts
| | 05/27/2006 8:22 AM |
| It would be very nice for a halfling rogue with 1 or 2 caster levels.
It seams like a very reasonable feat. | |
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orcdoubleax
Sergeant
694 Posts
| | 05/27/2006 8:25 AM |
| | What about a bard drummer who uses wands for his drum sticks? Of course that would mean playing a bard. | |
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Thenameless
Warlord
12481 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 05/28/2006 2:36 AM |
| | Strengths are reasonably balanced by weaknesses. I think our DM would allow this feat. | |
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