madda
Sergeant
714 Posts
    
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dagonet
Sergeant
442 Posts
| | 05/29/2006 2:54 PM |
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"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people."
Champion of Kyuss and his Servants of Squishy Doom | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
13069 Posts
Mud Lick, Kentucky
| | 05/29/2006 2:58 PM |
| Saweeeet! The Nabassu is in there. One of my all time favorites. [:D]
There's a lot of 1st Edition goodness in that monster list.  | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM
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FeranEldritchKnight
Sergeant
385 Posts
Kansas City, MO USA
| | 05/29/2006 4:49 PM |
| Sweet Guinea pig of Winnepeg! I NEED THIS BOOK! This compiles a lot of good stuff here (and seems to update some BoVD stuff). I have a note in my DM folder listing all the demons and devils with their CR and what source they are found in. This looks like it will consolidate the things I need.
Good find! | |
Completed trades: Gausse, Mazra, Pagansexy, Galerians, Lord_Raven, Drakkengi, Temujinn x2, Random Sasquatch, elf_ranger, Azuretide, Hung4treason, Griffrat (face2face), Nasamonkey
Carpe Forum! | |
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kyrin
Commander
3171 Posts
| | 05/29/2006 5:29 PM |
| That is one sweet-looking Table of Contents. The book was already on my "Must Buy," but this has moved it up to "Must Buy ASAP and Read that Night." Awesome!
JIM
aka kyrin | |
My Have/Want List <-|-|->My Trades and References 1 <-|-|->My Trades and References 2
Pronounce "Drow" like "crow"! Viva la Revolution! We Shall Overcome!
Vindicated Champion of the Stirge! Vindicated Champion of the Githyanki Knight on Red Dragon!!
Vindicated Champion of the Androsphinx! | |
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Omand
Commander
3120 Posts
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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taliesin
Underboss
1113 Posts
| | 05/30/2006 1:55 PM |
| | Yup, looks good. And since the Paizo boys contributed a LOT to this book, and the Savage Tides AP is supposed to end with a fight vs Demogorgon, I'd say this book is guaranteed to see use at my table. | |
Champion of the Entire Monster Manual 1!
(Click link to see current progress!)
Uncommon Painting Competition 2 Winner | |
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Dordledum
Commander
3463 Posts
Netherlands
| | 05/30/2006 2:01 PM |
| I can't wait to read the Mane entry, and Dagon!!!
D. | |
Member of the Bearded Devils
Champion of the Huge Spider (WotDQ 46/60), A New Umber Hulk (DoDe 57/60), and the Orog Fighter! | |
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 05/30/2006 2:11 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by dagonet
Sub-types like tanar'ri is a subtype. They're remnants of older demon races, I believe. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
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jgsugden
Commander
4320 Posts
Walnut Creek, CA
| | 05/30/2006 3:54 PM |
| 27 pages of new demons?
24 pages of demon lords (and possible aspect descriptions)?
Hmmmm... this actually falls short of my expectatiosn for the book. I was hoping for:
~100 pages of monsters
~50 pages of Abyss description
~50 pages of fluff (spells, feats, prestige classes)
They seem to have included everything except 50% - 75% of the monsters.
I think the two 'new' subtypes will provide some variation to the basic Tanar'ri traits that (almost) all demons get. That should be handy. | |
Champion of Meepo _*_ Myztek on the Wizards Boards. _*_ (2206 DDM on 03/06/06)
Please note: The use of the  indicates an attempt at humor ... often a bad attempt.
BAD EBAY SELLERS LIST (CLICK HERE): AVOID AT ALL COSTS
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dagonet
Sergeant
442 Posts
| | 05/30/2006 5:04 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by IanB
quote:
Originally posted by dagonet
Sub-types like tanar'ri is a subtype. They're remnants of older demon races, I believe.
Hrmmm. . . I'm a little unclear as to what exactly happened in the Abyss during the 2nd Edition=>3rd Edition conversion. As I understand it (and please correct me if I'm wrong), all tanar'ri are demons, and demon is basically a catchall term for (chaotic evil) outsiders native to the Abyss (or at least partially native like the Nabassu).
I was drooling at the thought of the Qlippoth making their way into the Fiendish Codex; here's to hoping that the Loumara or the Obyrith (or both!) end up filling the same niche. [:)]
Cheers,
Dagonet | |
"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people."
Champion of Kyuss and his Servants of Squishy Doom | |
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 05/30/2006 5:33 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by dagonet
quote:
Originally posted by IanB
quote:
Originally posted by dagonet
Sub-types like tanar'ri is a subtype. They're remnants of older demon races, I believe.
Hrmmm. . . I'm a little unclear as to what exactly happened in the Abyss during the 2nd Edition=>3rd Edition conversion. As I understand it (and please correct me if I'm wrong), all tanar'ri are demons, and demon is basically a catchall term for (chaotic evil) outsiders native to the Abyss (or at least partially native like the Nabassu).
I was drooling at the thought of the Qlippoth making their way into the Fiendish Codex; here's to hoping that the Loumara or the Obyrith (or both!) end up filling the same niche. [:)]
Cheers,
Dagonet
My feeling of how they're treating it is indeed that demon basically just means 'from the abyss.' Tanar'ri, in 3E, are a specific subtype of demon, as noted in monster entries. There are definitely demons that are not tanar'ri, like the bebilith. Interestingly in the SRD, they're all just demons, there's no tanar'ri subtype. One of those proprietary things that gets left out, I guess. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
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2004 D&D Miniatures Champion
Kiddoc
Underboss
1797 Posts
| | 05/30/2006 8:02 PM |
| I'm pouring over the book as we speak looking for a possible surprise for my Friday night group and a couple of RPGA modules.
As a shrink, I have to admit I love the sections on monster "psychology." I find that to be a particular turn on for demons and devils, because they're so much more likely to be dynamic, recurring, and/or big bad guys. Having an understanding of how the tick really helps make them memorable for the players.
Some positives about the book: KICK@$$ art. Wow. The anatomy of a dretch diagram makes me both chilled and hysterical at the same time. The full page Graz'zt and Iggwilv illustration is just stunning and makes me think: 1) I've never wanted to be a demon so bad, and 2) man I gotta write this adventure! What can I say, good art inspires me to write.
The book is pleasantly full of useful maps. Lots of overland stuff and plenty of gridded goodies. The adventures are nicely fleshed out and a bunch of them are damned clever.
The monsters range from pretty typical to balefully sinister all the way over to obscenely bizarre. Groovy. The Sibriex alone has me completely grossed out. Now I need a mini for that thing... then again, my players vomitting in my gaming room might not be so hot.
Some of the new feats and spells are pretty cool too. Morality undone is screaming for use against my PC's and Extract Gift could have an entire adventure series written around it.
I'm not a huge demon/devil user--but I'm very sorely tempted now--particularly as some of these start hitting the miniatures line. I dig it. | |
POST DISCLAIMER: Above post may contain humor. Now with micro scrubbing bubbles. Do not operate heavy machinery. Take with food. Use only as directed. Contents may settle during shipping. No user-servicable parts inside. Void where prohibited. Beware of dog. This side up. Do not fold, spindle, or mutilate. No salt, MSG, or artificial coloring or flavoring added. Actual cash value of this post is 1/100th of a cent. Avoid contact with skin... | |
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Zaukrie
Underboss
2007 Posts
| | 05/30/2006 9:19 PM |
| How did you get this?
btw, there is a lengthy discussion and Q&A on EnWorld by someone else that has it early. | |
Fastest dropping DCI ranking on record!
Champion of Juiblex | |
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2004 D&D Miniatures Champion
Kiddoc
Underboss
1797 Posts
| | 05/30/2006 10:05 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Zaukrie
How did you get this?
btw, there is a lengthy discussion and Q&A on EnWorld by someone else that has it early.
Perk of the job brother :)
Besides, they like me to plug this info. Getting things a month or so early is a good way to get it written into adventures. [:D]
This one's good stuff. | |
POST DISCLAIMER: Above post may contain humor. Now with micro scrubbing bubbles. Do not operate heavy machinery. Take with food. Use only as directed. Contents may settle during shipping. No user-servicable parts inside. Void where prohibited. Beware of dog. This side up. Do not fold, spindle, or mutilate. No salt, MSG, or artificial coloring or flavoring added. Actual cash value of this post is 1/100th of a cent. Avoid contact with skin... | |
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Feathers
Underboss
1140 Posts
| | 05/31/2006 1:15 AM |
| Kiddoc, did you quit your day job? [)] I remember the joy I got when I received a photocopied "beta" book of the 3rd Edition PHB back in 1999 or so from WotC, 6 months before it released. That was sweet; my group and I loved betatesting 3E. (Okay, gloating over...)
I'm wildly excited about this book. I love me the fiends. But I'm anticipating the Devil book even more. | |
Champion of Neogi
Completed Trades/Transactions: sttmxn, Krush, jgsugden, Ayrychx2, Venport, Tysac
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
| | 05/31/2006 11:18 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Kiddoc
I'm pouring over the book as we speak looking for a possible surprise for my Friday night group and a couple of RPGA modules.
As a shrink, I have to admit I love the sections on monster "psychology." I find that to be a particular turn on for demons and devils, because they're so much more likely to be dynamic, recurring, and/or big bad guys. Having an understanding of how the tick really helps make them memorable for the players.
Some positives about the book: KICK@$$ art. Wow. The anatomy of a dretch diagram makes me both chilled and hysterical at the same time. The full page Graz'zt and Iggwilv illustration is just stunning and makes me think: 1) I've never wanted to be a demon so bad, and 2) man I gotta write this adventure! What can I say, good art inspires me to write.
The book is pleasantly full of useful maps. Lots of overland stuff and plenty of gridded goodies. The adventures are nicely fleshed out and a bunch of them are damned clever.
The monsters range from pretty typical to balefully sinister all the way over to obscenely bizarre. Groovy. The Sibriex alone has me completely grossed out. Now I need a mini for that thing... then again, my players vomitting in my gaming room might not be so hot.
Some of the new feats and spells are pretty cool too. Morality undone is screaming for use against my PC's and Extract Gift could have an entire adventure series written around it.
I'm not a huge demon/devil user--but I'm very sorely tempted now--particularly as some of these start hitting the miniatures line. I dig it.
I thought you weren't going to TPK them anytime soon ... it's a good thing none of them read these boards ... | |
Triangle DDM Skirmish Group | My Email | 45-ish trades and counting | Stuff for Trade
* * * Show your brother some love and click here * * * | |
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Anthraxus
Warrior
212 Posts
| | 05/31/2006 1:30 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by kyrin
That is one sweet-looking Table of Contents. The book was already on my "Must Buy," but this has moved it up to "Must Buy ASAP and Read that Night." Awesome!
JIM
aka kyrin
Ditto, here. I am really excited about this book, and the FC line in general. | |
Yeah, I really need to work on my H/W list one of these days...
Completed trades: 17 ; Pending: 2
Champion of Yugoloths | |
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Zaukrie
Underboss
2007 Posts
| | 05/31/2006 2:03 PM |
| I'm glad I'm roleplaying/Dming again. Now I can justify buying these books. Very excited for the FC line.
So, Kiddoc, if you're here to pimp:
How are the descriptions of the planes? That is one of the parts I am most interested in.
Also, any DM advice on using demons in low level campaigns? | |
Fastest dropping DCI ranking on record!
Champion of Juiblex | |
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2004 D&D Miniatures Champion
Kiddoc
Underboss
1797 Posts
| | 05/31/2006 8:56 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Zaukrie
I'm glad I'm roleplaying/Dming again. Now I can justify buying these books. Very excited for the FC line.
So, Kiddoc, if you're here to pimp:
How are the descriptions of the planes? That is one of the parts I am most interested in.
Also, any DM advice on using demons in low level campaigns?
You mean "plane" right. The book deals only with the Abyss. It has about 60 pages dedicated to the layout of the abyss--all with overland and closeup maps. The Abyssal Ocean, Infinite Staircase, Iron Wastes, The Endless Maze, The River Styx, Shedaklah, I coud go on and on.
Keep in mind there are like 700 layers in the abyss. This book details 91 of them in some way. The major layers get the majority of the pages, understandably.
Oh, you DDM players might also be interested to note a section of the book that details the "Blood War"... hmmm, why is that name familiar?
As for low level campaigns. Well, there are always lots of Dretches :p
Ekloids, Guecubu, Manes (these are some really clever CR1 critters), Rutterkin, etc. are all great CR 4 or lower creatures.
If I were doing it, I would probably choose one of the demon lords or major demons and have them as the master-archvillian, then let the PCs discover the twisted plot through encounters with the little demon guys (dreches, manes, etc.). The bigger they get, the more of the plot they uncover, and the closer they get to the big bad guy. Then as they advance you can introduce them to nastier and nastier stuff.
There are also a good handful of feats and spells for use with lower level characters--some can do really nifty things if introduced to the campaign at particularly low levels. | |
POST DISCLAIMER: Above post may contain humor. Now with micro scrubbing bubbles. Do not operate heavy machinery. Take with food. Use only as directed. Contents may settle during shipping. No user-servicable parts inside. Void where prohibited. Beware of dog. This side up. Do not fold, spindle, or mutilate. No salt, MSG, or artificial coloring or flavoring added. Actual cash value of this post is 1/100th of a cent. Avoid contact with skin... | |
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Zaukrie
Underboss
2007 Posts
| | 05/31/2006 10:43 PM |
| Yep, I meant layers, not plane. (thankfully there is no hall of shame for that one:))
Aren't there 666 layers?
As for choosing a demon lord as the archvillian, isn't that the idea behind the 3rd Dungeon Magazine adventure path - that may be the one I buy as magazines instead of a book - I may not be able to wait. | |
Fastest dropping DCI ranking on record!
Champion of Juiblex | |
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Amurayi
Underboss
1471 Posts
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kyrin
Commander
3171 Posts
| | 06/02/2006 4:46 PM |
| There used to be 666 Layers. Then in second edition, that turned to "infinite" layers, because oh my goodness they aren't demons anymore, they're Tanar'ri, Mr. and Mrs. Parent. Now I hope we're back to 666.
JIM
aka kyrin | |
My Have/Want List <-|-|->My Trades and References 1 <-|-|->My Trades and References 2
Pronounce "Drow" like "crow"! Viva la Revolution! We Shall Overcome!
Vindicated Champion of the Stirge! Vindicated Champion of the Githyanki Knight on Red Dragon!!
Vindicated Champion of the Androsphinx! | |
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 06/02/2006 4:48 PM |
| I believe officially the layers are still infinite.
Not in my game, though. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
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trismegistus
Sneak
80 Posts
| | 06/03/2006 12:34 AM |
| I'm psyched!
I loved the Molydeus back in the day!
I'm glad to see them return!
edit: *ahem* proofreading [xx(] | |
Champion of the Nalfeshnee! Future Champion of the Atropal
Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu! | |
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Sammael
Underboss
1881 Posts
| | 06/03/2006 1:35 AM |
| Why limit yourself to 666 layers? (a number that has nothing to do with demons, by the way, and everything to do with devils)
The Abyss still has an infinite number of layers in 3.x (see Manual of the Planes). FC1 is supposed to have a list of known layers (which is much smaller than 666... I'd hazard a guess that no more than 60-70 layers have been named in all editions of D&D so far). | |
Hypethetical Blood War Set List | Champion of the Gelugon | Vindicated Prophet of Blood War
Ha 69/80 | De 60/60 | Ar 57/60 | GoL 72/72 | Ab 60/60 | DK 60/60 | AF 60/60 | UD 59/60 | WD 57/60 | WDQ 3/60| BW
Total DDM Count: 1037 | No chance of finishing the set | Will finish the set | Set | |
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 06/03/2006 5:26 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Sammael
Why limit yourself to 666 layers? (a number that has nothing to do with demons, by the way, and everything to do with devils)
The Abyss still has an infinite number of layers in 3.x (see Manual of the Planes). FC1 is supposed to have a list of known layers (which is much smaller than 666... I'd hazard a guess that no more than 60-70 layers have been named in all editions of D&D so far).
That's way more than I'll ever get around to detailing anyway, and I think there's some value in keeping some metasetting things first edition-ified. I like some changes (deleting Tiamat as an archdevil = good) and dislike some others, especially stuff like changing the number of Abyssal layers to appease the "Oh no, D&D is Satanic" lobby.
As for the number, devil and demon are pretty interchangeable in the religious traditions that consider it significant. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10492 Posts
United States
| | 06/03/2006 9:49 AM |
| I was going to buy the book anyway--but after Kiddoc's sweet review, I'm going to camp out at my game shop until it's released.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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orcmonk220
Underboss
1608 Posts
| | 06/03/2006 4:30 PM |
| | I like it, going up there in my to-buy list (after Races of the Dragon due to WotDQ set list) | |
My Trading Thread | |
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