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Can of the Cave Beer
Commander
2838 Posts
    
 | | 06/10/2006 12:10 AM |
| *grin*
I'm just an idea man. I couldn't tell you much about the mechanics of 3.x.
I think about these things all the time. It's like having a window running in the background, it's always there, but sometimes it takes a long time to come up with anything interesting. | |
Champion of the Werewolf Lord, Knight of Anything Duergar, and Squire of Things Gnollish
List reset with the start of previews for each new set...got Chainmail®? | |
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Grim
Sergeant
482 Posts
| | 06/10/2006 3:12 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by notserious
Grim: Why wouldn't there? If one infinite plan of pure, chaotic evil is good (so to speak) then more would be better. and would utter and complete excess be very fitting for the home of pure chaotic evil? And as someone else pointed out, it is perfectly valid from a mathematical perspective - the two dimensional example of infinite points on a number line between 1 and 2 is a good one. But Stephen Hawking also had a nice little piece on bounded, infinite spaces in three and four dimensions. and we have even talked about what happens when you add dimensions - dimensions don't really overlap, so you can have as many infinite dimensions as you like. Personally, I liked Robert Heinlein's take on the whole 666 thing - in the novel "The Number of the Beast" his fictional multiverse is based on there being a lot of dimensions - 10 to the power of 6, to the power of 6, to the power of 6 (which is a ridiculously large 10 to the 216, so you would probably have close enough to infinite fun with plain old 6 to the 6th to the 6th - 1.03 by 10 to the 28 (or roughly a billion quadrillion))
Because any more would be redundant. One infinate space by definition has all the space every demon would require and then some (infinate some actually). This awesomely huge expanse could and would hold the domains of every single man-jack of the demon lords, shaped from the chaos of the plane to their master's twisted mold. Now multiply that by over six hundred. It's like tacking another century onto an immortals lifespan. | |
I am a leaf on the wind...Urrk!!--Wash, "Serenity" | |
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notserious
Sneak
117 Posts
| | 06/10/2006 5:18 PM |
| | but if there are infinite demons, then a single infinite plane may not be enough. Or maybe, even though the dimension is infinite, the resources aren't. Mathematicians consider multiple infinities all the time, they also toy with concepts like infinity + 1. So tacking a century to an infinite lifespan may not be a trivial example. The other thing to consider is that the nature of the multiverse doesn't have to be logical - technically, if planes are infinite, why do you need more than one - wouldn't all of everything fit into the one? So we've got multiple planes, why would any of them be limited to a single of anything. If anything, it is the decision to limit the planes that may be more arbitrary. | |
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madda
Sergeant
714 Posts
| | 06/10/2006 6:12 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by notserious
but if there are infinite demons, then a single infinite plane may not be enough. Or maybe, even though the dimension is infinite, the resources aren't. Mathematicians consider multiple infinities all the time, they also toy with concepts like infinity + 1. So tacking a century to an infinite lifespan may not be a trivial example. The other thing to consider is that the nature of the multiverse doesn't have to be logical - technically, if planes are infinite, why do you need more than one - wouldn't all of everything fit into the one? So we've got multiple planes, why would any of them be limited to a single of anything. If anything, it is the decision to limit the planes that may be more arbitrary.
Hmm. Infinity +1. Well, that depends on what type of infinity we're talking about. There are cardinals and ordinals (think of cardinal as a tool that measures size, and of ordinals as a tools that measures order). Since we're talking about sizes (amounts, Cantor-wise) we're speaking of cardinals. Any infinite cardinal + 1 is simply itself. Having and infinite cardinality is not something that derived from the mathematics we know and it's proven that it cannot be derived from. We need a whole new axiom (the Axiom of Infinity) to force its existence. One assuming it, there are many infinities (though depending on your axioms there can be more or less). For example, the real numbers (3, pi, ...) are numerous than the integers (they have cardinality Aleph-1 where the Integers have cardinality Aleph-0 when using some axioms. BTw, the symbol Aleph was used by Cantor for the Hebrew word of infinity). However, toying with such ideas seem irrelevant for the demons in the Abyss. Let's say that there are countable (Aleph-0) layers and each layer is of countable size (in cube meters for example). Just a countable number of demons are enough to fill it since Aleph-0 multiply by Aleph-0 is still Aleph-0. Neat, eh? Also, unless you'd allow infinite number of demons deaths in a finite number of seconds (or any other time unit) there will always be enough demons to fill the Abyss and the density will stay the same, ever driving the demons to fight for more personal space. No matter how much demons you slayed, there will always be more competition for space (or any other resource).
(I hope I didn't scare all of you off this thread Ζ)] - I like it) | |
Champion of Cockatrices.
I wish I never wished a wand of wishing. (Wishful thinking.)
Join the Eternal Campaign!
Chat about miniatures. | |
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Puggins
Sergeant
622 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 3:51 PM |
| | Yeah, I've always interpreted "infinite layers of the Abyss" to be a literary device, much like "40 days in the desert" or "here there be dragons". "infinite layers" just sounds so much cooler than "666 layers", and to the average observer they'd be more or less equivalent. | |
References: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7231 | |
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