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Amator
Sneak
116 Posts
    
 | | 06/06/2006 12:42 AM |
| I can't find a Prestige Class for my Warforged Cleric that seems interesting. What I'm looking for is combat ability without completely losing caster levels. Currently we are exploring the jungles of Xen'Drik and I am the main tank of the party.
Our party also consists of a Changeling Wizard, Human Ranger, Human Barbarian, Elven Rogue(played by the DM's 10 year old son), Kalashtar Psion/Pyromancer, and an Elven Wizard. My character is bound to the Changeling Wizard as she saved his life and helped him turn from the Lord of Blades to embrace humanity, eventually becoming a cleric of Dol Dorn.
Here are my relevant stats:
Razor, 5th level Cleric of Dol Dorn
STR 16 DEX 12 CON 17 INT 14 WIS 14 CHA 14
HP: 52 AC: 21(Adamantine Body, Lg Steel Shield, +1 Dex)
Feats: Adamantine Body, Toughness
Skills(Ranks): Concentration(8), Craft:Sketching(2), Heal(5), Knowledge Religion (5), Knowledge The Planes (5), Spellcraft(2), Spot(5)
Wpn: Longsword, Crossbow
Domains: War and Strength
Tactics: Razor likes to cast Enlarge Person and/or Shield of Faith before wading into battle to protect the others. With his AC and damage reduction, he tries to draw the enemy as his weaker allies pepper the enemy with ranged combat and spells. After a battle, Razor is ready to help any allies who have sustained damage. At night, he usually accompanies whoever is on watch and spends a lot of time sketching life around him by the firelight. Razor is dedicated to the fall of the Lord of Blades and to proclaim to the 'forged the truth of the Sovereign Host.
Any PrC, multiclass, and/or feat suggestions would be appreciated. | |
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Wayne
Underboss
1371 Posts
| | 06/06/2006 1:03 AM |
| There are very few prestige classes that enhance the sheer power of the cleric (which is a good thing, because the cleric is probably the most powerful class, out of the box). Most prestige classes change the focus. There are a few that narrow the focus to a crazy degree, like the Radiant Servant of Pelor, but it doesn't sound like you'd be interested in that.
For my dwarven cleric, I briefly considered the Battlesmith, from Races of Stone, for a 1-level dip. (+4 or more to warhammer damage and a boost to level for magic arms and armor crafting.) I eventually decided against it ... an additional divine power and righteous might per day is worth more than I'd be gaining, in terms of combat power.
In short, I've got no suggestions for you. (Sorry.) The cleric is a very powerful class already, and IMO any prestige class that increases its combat abilities without significantly impacting its spellcasting is a broken prestige class. | |
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 06/06/2006 6:04 AM |
| When you say totally lose caster levels, how far does it have to go before you say no?
In a sense, you could think about taking a few fighter levels as simulating the effects of a combat boosting prestige class that causes some loss of casting.
Ftr 4/Cleric 16 at level 20 misses 9th level spells, but gets you weapon specialization and a +16 BAB, which means you get 4 swings per round - important if you're expecting the game to hit epic levels, since BAB stops progressing after 20.
What's your alignment? That impacts your available choices significantly. | |
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Amator
Sneak
116 Posts
| | 06/06/2006 7:03 AM |
| Thanks for the advice guys. I'll have to consider Ftr4/Cleric 16 option.
Razor's alignment is CG. | |
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Kiddoc
Underboss
1797 Posts
| | 06/06/2006 8:00 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Amator
Thanks for the advice guys. I'll have to consider Ftr4/Cleric 16 option.
Razor's alignment is CG.
Also, warforged can't benefit from the Enlarge Person spell. Silly technicalities.
Multiclassing with fighter is a great option--You may also like Dragon Shaman. Very cool class with good HP and very combat-useful auras. | |
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Amator
Sneak
116 Posts
| | 06/06/2006 9:18 PM |
| We houseruled that Dol Dorn wouldn't screw his minion over just because he was a warforged, so I technically treat it as an enlarge construct. My DM is good at ad hoc, but sometimes lets the players do a little too much. Like announcing that as a cleric I didn't have to prepare daily spells but can cast any spell on the list whenever I have an open slot. A lot of guys around here do this(they rule that why would a god request what miracles were needed in advance). Makes clerics even more insane.
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zenthrus
Commander
4836 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 06/07/2006 4:13 AM |
| Yikes! [:O]
That's what Favored Souls are for. Spontaneous casting clerics (without a big restriction) tip the scale to broken.
As to PrC options.....
My recommendation is the Divine Oracle. To qualify, you'd have to take Skill Focus (knowledge religion) at 6th level and bump up your knowledge religion to 8 ranks.
You don't lose any spellcasting ability (+1 level of existing class each level), you gain Evasion that works in armor, Improved Uncanny Dodge, an extra domain, and some nice perks to casting divination magic. You also gain the ability to always act during a surprise round at 10th PrC level. Only drawback? Painful BAB progression.
If you're concerned about BAB, the Fighter 4/Cleric 16 option previously suggested is probably your best option. | |
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Mrfurious
Warrior
344 Posts
| | 06/07/2006 11:24 AM |
| As for PrCs, there are not many that dont give up caster levels, which are quite important in comparison to a few levels of fighter. Sure fighter will give you 1hp/level more on average, and a few feats and a little BAB. But that is more than made up for with Divine power, or later on, quickened divine power. Also 9th level spells are quite nice, especially MASS HEAL, which is essenitally a big reset button for your party.
If you want to be a kick butt fighter type, consider taking quicken spell later on and divine meta magic(quicken). This will let you open an important combat off (at 9th level) with
1)Quicken(Righteous Might), Divine Power and a move
2)Quicken(Divine Favor), Move+attack or Full attack
Very powerful, but it does pop off a lot of your resources in one combat.
Also are you a defensive tank, or an offensive tank?
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TUS
Skirmisher
5 Posts
| | 06/07/2006 2:45 PM |
| You're playing in Ebberon (or Uberon as I like to call it) and no one is playing an artificer?
Sacrilage!!!!!!
Artificer20. Covert your artificer into a "blastaficer" and lay waste. You are no longer a tank, you are now a walking WMD. | |
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Lachlarlan_the_Mad
Sergeant
470 Posts
| | 06/08/2006 10:04 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by zenthrus
You don't lose any spellcasting ability (+1 level of existing class each level), you gain Evasion that works in armor, Improved Uncanny Dodge, an extra domain, and some nice perks to casting divination magic. You also gain the ability to always act during a surprise round at 10th PrC level. Only drawback? Painful BAB progression.
I thought their HPs took a dive as well. | |
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dariustad
Warlord
6322 Posts
| | 06/10/2006 7:00 PM |
| I think my greatest question stems from his cleric having taken the Toughness feat. A cleric with the toughness feat? Unless it's a pre-req for something, why? You control the healing! That feat would have been much better spent on something far more useful, like Augment Healing.
My favorite choice for a PrC (not maxxed, but definitely sex levels) for a non-melee intensive cleric is the Contemplative. Bonus domains, disease and poison immunities, slippery mind, and Divine Wholeness to keep the cleric vertical in a critical situation. If you have to serve the role of "Heals on Wheels," it's a great choice. No, it isn't good at combat, but the cleric possesses the spells to overcome that obstacle. | |
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
| | 06/10/2006 7:58 PM |
| Well, most PrCs will cost you some caster levels ... and you may need that.
If you don't a few levels into Fighter (w/ the warforged level subs) are never bad. A single-level dip into Dragonslayer if you can is also handy (no caster drop, full partial profs + you get fearless).
I wouldn't worry with Quicken Spell. Instead, I'd drop the Toughness feat for Action Surge and pick up Heroic Spirit sometime later. The ability to spend 2 action points to net you a standard or move action is bueno.
You're going to be 3rd string combat quickly ... at least if the Ranger and Barb don't completely suck. You've also got a fair amount or ranged offense w/ the two wizards and some tech w/ the rogue and pyromancer/psion. | |
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
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Lab Monkey
Commander
4135 Posts
| | 06/10/2006 11:23 PM |
| Mechanically a Sacred Exorcist from Complete Divine isn't bad. You give up 1 good save and you gain a number of fun abilities including full caster level progression and turn undead. I've never loved the flavor of this PrC (or of clerics in general) but it does work.
The character optimization boards at WotC used to really love Contemplative. It's not a martially oriented PrC however so it wouldn't fit your build.
My current favorite is the Radiant Servant of Pelor, but again a Greyhawk deity wouldn't fit for an Eberron campaign (although I bet your DM could adapt it). It's not a combat focused PrC (d6 HD), but it does grant a number of very nice abilities. Oddly, it also includes proficiency with all Simple and Martial weapons. If I can get a new game going, I'll be recommending this PrC to anyone interested in playing a cleric. | |
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Wayne
Underboss
1371 Posts
| | 06/11/2006 11:19 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by dariustad
I think my greatest question stems from his cleric having taken the Toughness feat. A cleric with the toughness feat? Unless it's a pre-req for something, why? You control the healing! That feat would have been much better spent on something far more useful, like Augment Healing.
Or at least Improved Toughness. Toughness is definitely puzzling. | |
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samayel70
Skirmisher
7 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 1:23 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Amator
My DM is good at ad hoc, but sometimes lets the players do a little too much. Like announcing that as a cleric I didn't have to prepare daily spells but can cast any spell on the list whenever I have an open slot. A lot of guys around here do this(they rule that why would a god request what miracles were needed in advance). Makes clerics even more insane.
Tread carefully... ;) I can change things on a whim.
OTOH, we do far more RP'ing than combat on most days, so the freedom of divine spellcasting hasn't really affected game balance much... wouldn't you say?
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Amator
Sneak
116 Posts
| | 06/19/2006 11:18 PM |
| Toughness may seem superfluous, but the character is all about drawing the fight to him so his glass cannon allies can take down the danger while I absorb the damage. Plus, most of those healing spells my cleric possesses won't work on him as he's a 'forged.
Samayel, I am glad of the benefit, don't get me wrong, but if you were to tell me you prefer for me to do it the other way round, I wouldn't complain(too much). :)
Given my character's role in the party, I'm also thinking of dropping in a level or two of knight instead of fighter to make sure BBEGs want to pick a fight with me. Samayel gave me the idea of using a couple of levels of Psychic Warrior, but other than having Expansion as a power to stack with Enlarge(man, it'd be fun to use a WF Titan as a PC mini) I don't think there would be any benefits. Same 3/4 BAB, no caster progression, same HP, no extra feats.
Maybe I'll run a homebrew PrC idea around being able to change into a Warforged Titan around...make it similar to Tenser's Transformation, so I wouldn't be able to cast spells while Titaned. | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 06/20/2006 3:03 AM |
| Two things: 1) In the future tak Improved Toughness from Complete Warrior instead of Toughness. After 3rd level you get more hit points from the feat (1/level) and continues to be useful at higher levels.
2) You don't necessarily need a Pclass to do your Warforged Titan idea if that doesn't work. There is a seventh level Sor/Wiz spell called Body of War that does the exact same thing. Now you need some way to get that spell on your own spell list and be 13th level. | |
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Amator
Sneak
116 Posts
| | 06/20/2006 7:19 AM |
| | Hmm, Body of War looks inviting. May have to research that as a Strength domain spell. :) | |
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Wayne
Underboss
1371 Posts
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Amator
Sneak
116 Posts
| | 06/20/2006 5:24 PM |
| | Yes, that's why I already have Enlarge Person(Construct). Two different spells/powers that both confer 1 size category in growth on a medium creature should yield a huge creature for the duration of the shortest duration spell, right? | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 06/21/2006 12:27 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Amator
Yes, that's why I already have Enlarge Person(Construct). Two different spells/powers that both confer 1 size category in growth on a medium creature should yield a huge creature for the duration of the shortest duration spell, right?
No, you can't. Under the description of the Enlarge spell you can't use two castings to improve your size category by two sizes. Two castings of the spell woud still make you large. Things that make you two sizes larger usually are not open to characters until higher levels. | |
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Helzapoppn
Warrior
258 Posts
| | 06/21/2006 5:02 PM |
| | 'Radiant Servant of Pelor' is easily translated into 'Radiant Servant of The Flame'...but you're a Cleric of Dol Dorn, so...no. | |
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orcmonk220
Underboss
1608 Posts
| | 06/23/2006 3:57 AM |
| | Are undead prominent in your campaign? If so, maybe the Sacred Purifier from Libris Mortis would be a good idea. | |
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Amator
Sneak
116 Posts
| | 06/23/2006 11:00 AM |
| | Not so much undead as of yet. We're in Xen'drik exploring the ruins of the giants for a while now, and will probably do so for the next few months. | |
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