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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10492 Posts
    
United States
 | | 06/07/2006 9:24 AM |
| Is there a feat somewhere that does this?
Critical Sneak Attack
Your sneak attack is deadlier than usual.
Prerequisites: Sneak Attack ability, BAB +6
Benefit: Whenever you score a critical hit with a sneak attack, the bonus damage dice are d10 instead of d6.
I know that there are lots of magic weapon abilities that do d10 instead of d6 on criticals, so I wondered if there was anything like this for the sneak attack.
Dave | |
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nyjastul69
Commander
2731 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 06/07/2006 9:41 AM |
| | There's a feat in the PHII (I think) that allows for 1d6 extra damage on SA. I don't know that changing the damage as you propose would be balanced. In regards to energy properties, I think you refering to burst weapons. The dice of damage aren't changed, what happens is when a threat is confirmed it deals an extra d10, in addition to the 1d6. That's much different than the proposed change. I don't think I'd allow it as written. | |
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Wayne
Underboss
1371 Posts
| | 06/07/2006 9:45 AM |
| EDIT: Misread originally.
I'd (probably) allow it. As I originally read it, I thought it was over-powered, but as is, it looks pretty good. It might be problematic with stuff like keen scimitars, I suppose. Maybe you could change it to d8s for x2 weapons, d10s for x3 weapons, and d12s for x4 weapons. Ugh. Maybe not. | |
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Monsoon28
Underboss
2313 Posts
Toronto
| | 06/07/2006 9:47 AM |
| Never seen anything like that, could alway show up in the Complete Scoundrel next year.
But I would think of it as a bit overpowered. Magic items that might do this are only effecting 1 or 2 dice not 5-10 dice. | |
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Mrfurious
Warrior
344 Posts
| | 06/07/2006 11:15 AM |
| Well, compare it to some benchmarks that are exist regarding upping weapon damage.
1) There is a feat in exalted deads that turns all sneak attack d6s into d8s when facing evil creatures. It should be noted that the book of exalted deads states that its feats are in general more powerful than other feats due to the requirement that the character be a paragon of goodness.
2) The base baseline for damage to weapon attacks, weapon spec. +2 damage, nearly all the time, except when you have to change weapon for some reason (disarmed, DR, etc).
Your feat is a bit weaker than feat 1. Assuming the best case for your feat (critting 15-20) and assuming all crits are confirmed you get a boost of 0.3 (crit chance)x 2 (additional damage going from d6 to d10) = 0.6 damage per sneak attack die. Whereas feat 1 means 1 damage more per die on average, assuming everything is evil (which is no worse than assuming all crits are confirmed).
Your feat compared to weapon spec is pretty good, a little weak, but thats ok.
Assuming 75% of crits are confirmed, and assuming 75% of opponents are sneak attackable you get an average damage boost of
0.3 x 0.75 x 0.75 x 2 = 0.3375 damage per die, on average per swing
which gets to weapon spec levels when you get 6 sneak attack dice.
So all in all, your feat is a little weak compared to some bench marks, but it certainly won't break a game. The only possible problem is at ridiculously high levels this feat becomes very good since its power scales with level (assuming continued sneak attack progression). Another option is to just add a bonus 2d6 on sneak attack crits, and make pre-reqs such that a low level character or a minimal sneak attacker couldnt get it. For example
Critical Sneak Attack
Pre-req: Sneak attack + 4d6, BAB + 6
Benefit: When you score a crit with a sneak attack you do +2d6 damage. | |
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taliesin
Underboss
1113 Posts
| | 06/07/2006 11:34 AM |
| | In the PHB2, there is a feat that lets you apply your sneak attack damage to any critical hit you score, regardless of whether it would normally be a sneak attack. How would these feats interact? Would the sneak attack damage dice be increased with every successful critical hit, since they get added in now? Or does the target still need to actually be a valid target for sneak attacks (flanked, flat-footed, etc.)? | |
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Zenako
Commander
3472 Posts
| | 06/07/2006 11:44 AM |
| My concern is scaling of the effect. Also at higher levels it becomes easier to be in situations where a high level rogue can sneak attack quite frequently (Improved Invisibility for example). At 9th level a rogue gets 5d6 sneak attack damage, which is 17.5 points on average, while jumping to 5d10 would be 27.5 points. Pretty big jump on average. It also serves to pump up critical damage even more since you will already be doubling (or more) the base damages.
Any rogue worth their salt will also be using the highest crit chance weapon they can since the base weapon damage is almost irrelevant at this point and with feats and keen, you can get some pretty high chances of getting criticals.
One test - what would your Players say if NPC's came at them with the feat in place?
It is not grossly strong, just a little and I would concerned about how well it scales upwards. Something along the lines of the extra 1 or 2 d6 on a critical hit might be safer as that is a fixed bonus that does not keep getting better and better.
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TUS
Skirmisher
5 Posts
| | 06/07/2006 2:34 PM |
| | If you add Monkey Grip into the mix, when wielding a slightly larger weapon would increase your damage a die step. | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10492 Posts
United States
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IHawk
Underboss
1054 Posts
Lisle, Illinois
| | 06/07/2006 7:13 PM |
| Dave...OR you could make the rogue sacrifice something like
AC to add to the damage. It would be more risky...but imagine
the rogue, once he hits his sweet spot, really turning the
blade to make his "point" felt to do the extra sneak attack
damage. In doing so he looses a bit to his AC. This way it
has similar effect as power attack, and although scalable,
it makes the character sacrifice a bit to get his desired
affect.
It would work like this...attack and crit...cool I turn my
blade to convert 5d6 into 5d8, d10 or d12 depending on how
much power you want to give. Character continues on with his
attack, but suffers a -5 penalty to AC until the beginning
of his next turn. If he crits twice in the same turn...the
penalty would NOT stack, lucky him.
It sounds pretty cool, i will see if any of my players would
like to playtest the concept to see how it would fare.
mark | |
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Mrfurious
Warrior
344 Posts
| | 06/07/2006 8:02 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Zenako
My concern is scaling of the effect. Also at higher levels it becomes easier to be in situations where a high level rogue can sneak attack quite frequently (Improved Invisibility for example). At 9th level a rogue gets 5d6 sneak attack damage, which is 17.5 points on average, while jumping to 5d10 would be 27.5 points. Pretty big jump on average. It also serves to pump up critical damage even more since you will already be doubling (or more) the base damages.
That is a pretty big jump, on the average CRIT. But even in the best case scenario of all foes being crittable and all crits confirmed, while wielding a 15-20 crit weapon, you only crit 30% of the time. And often those crits are with the secondary (or tertiary) attack when it is more unlikely that the crit will be confirmed.
Also it is a "Win more" type of feat. Meaning that if you get a critical hit, the combat is likely going well for you because you critted something, so doing more damage on a crit is icing on the cake. But if you go a while without critting, this feat is useless while you aren't critting. So in essence it adds a little bit more randomness to the PCs power. And since more randomness generally hurts players, since on average they should succeed the VAST majority of the time, it is slightly less powerful than it seems as well.
Just my two cents. | |
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