| | You are not authorized to post a reply. |
| | Author | Messages | |
Snappa
Sneak
77 Posts
    
 | | 06/16/2006 5:23 PM |
| I've been reading and re-reading this offering from Races of the Dragon, and can't help but think this spell is completely, absolutely, and entirely broken. I won't reproduce it here for Intellectual Property concerns, but the skinny of it is, a 1st level enchantment spell that deals a d6 of damage (with no save) per round for multiple rounds based on the target's total hit points.
A first level kobold sorcerer casting this spell on a typical 1st or 2nd level player would have the effect last for 4d4 rounds. You're talking an average of 10 rounds of duration at 3.5 damage a round. That's an AVERAGE damage potential of 35 damage off a single 1st level spell. That's enough to nearly kill (and almost assuredly knock into negatives) a 1st level fighter even with a 1st level cleric burning 3 cure lights to heal him.
Even if this damage were non-lethal, the spell is still way out of balance for a first level spell (compare to Sunstroke from Sandstorm, which if I remember correctly, allows a save and only deals a max of 2d6 non-lethal damage).
I'm waiting for some errata to come out on this spell, but as of yet, there hasn't been errata released for the book.
| |
| |
|
MrWalrus
Sneak
76 Posts
| | 06/16/2006 5:49 PM |
| | Yeah, that spell came up in my RPG group. The DM is incredibly frustrated by it because even used as non-lethal damage it knocks out the bad guy (who is then coup de graced), but hasn't outright banned it mostly because the wizard's player just points out some "actively trying to screw the party" moments and he shuts up. | |
| |
| 
jgsugden
Commander
4320 Posts
Walnut Creek, CA
| | 06/16/2006 6:27 PM |
| The balance to the spell may be flawed, but there is an intended balance: the slow speed at which damage is taken. Having the damage come so slowly is usually a sufficient drawback that prevents it from having a drastic effect on the combat. FOr instance, if a creature takes 1d6 damage each round, but dies in 2 rounds, then the creature only takes 3d6 from the spell - the equivalent of what a 5th level caster doing a magic missile spell can do.
I agree that the spell is too strong. I advise using one of the following fixes:
* reduce the damage to d4, or d6-1 per round.
* turn the damage into nonlethal damage.
* cut the duration in 1/2.
| |
Champion of Meepo _*_ Myztek on the Wizards Boards. _*_ (2206 DDM on 03/06/06)
Please note: The use of the  indicates an attempt at humor ... often a bad attempt.
BAD EBAY SELLERS LIST (CLICK HERE): AVOID AT ALL COSTS
| |
|
maijstral
Underboss
2105 Posts
| | 06/16/2006 9:19 PM |
| I recently started RHoD and one of my players built a kobold sorcerer with this spell, since I didn't have Races of Dragon I wanted to see it before I allowed it. One look and I flat out said no, the player is a notorious powergamer was ready for this and argued otherwise but even he couldn't keep up the arguement for very long before he caved and admited the spell was overpowered.I was willing to allow the spell on a contingency basis at 3rd level until I had a chance to study it but as a 3rd level or even 2nd the player decided it wasn't worth it.
One arguement on my side was the DMG says when building a new spell first level spells should cap damage at 5 die. This spell is stackable as well and will effect any living creature, notwithstanding spell resistance, and even creatures with more than 50 hps can be effected if cast when they are brought to 50 or below even it they later cure up the spell is ongoing. Using the arguement for Magic Missle this spell can be the equivalent of a 1st level caster casting magic missle 10 rounds in a row but at the cost of only one spell. | | | |
| Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
12481 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 06/17/2006 4:11 PM |
| | I had never heard of this spell until now, but after reading about it, it definitely looks broken. As one person pointed out, who cares if the damage is non-lethal? If a boxer punches you out, you ain't doin' much. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
|
Most Edumacated
zenthrus
Warlord
5132 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 06/17/2006 9:15 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by maijstral
One arguement on my side was the DMG says when building a new spell first level spells should cap damage at 5 die.
Seems that someone working on Races of the Dragon forgot to consult the "how to make spells" section of the DMG. [:P]
Sounds like this spell is both overly complicated and overpowered. 1st-level spells should never break the 5 die cap even if the damage is meted out over time. | |
Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers
Knight of the Large Dire Chicken
Have/Want List
Trade References | |
|
Kunimatyu
Sergeant
725 Posts
| | 06/17/2006 10:11 PM |
| | Simple fix -- change the duration to rounds/level. Still quite good, but not obscene. | |
Champion of the Aboleth, Prophet of Denizens. BW Called Shot: Babau, UH Called Shot: Aspect of Vecna | |
|
PhibbyRizo
Warrior
207 Posts
Good Ol' Minnesota
| | 06/18/2006 2:35 AM |
| | I ddn't disallow it at first, My players pretty much told me not to allow the spell for said reasons. They are not power gamers at all, I guess. I'm figuring out a way to allow it...most of the suggestions here are all I came up with. | |
High Priest of the Mercury Dragon (Prayers all all I have...)
Champion of Genasi
Unhallowed Called Shot: Ghoul (Vindicated! Gravetouched Ghoul)
Night Below Called Shot: Cave Runner
Icon Called Shot: Hellfire Engine | |
|
Sammael
Underboss
1881 Posts
| | 06/18/2006 7:48 AM |
| | It's fine as a 2nd level spell. I saw a suggestion on one of the forums that the two power words in Races of the Dragon had their levels switched accidentally. | |
Hypethetical Blood War Set List | Champion of the Gelugon | Vindicated Prophet of Blood War
Ha 69/80 | De 60/60 | Ar 57/60 | GoL 72/72 | Ab 60/60 | DK 60/60 | AF 60/60 | UD 59/60 | WD 57/60 | WDQ 3/60| BW
Total DDM Count: 1037 | No chance of finishing the set | Will finish the set | Set | |
|
Benimoto
Underboss
1125 Posts
| | 06/18/2006 11:17 AM |
| There's about 10 power word spells in Races of the Dragon, so if it has it's level switched with another of the spells, it's not immediately evident which one.
Looking at the spell, it definitely seems too powerful for level 1, and possibly for level 2 or even 3. Jgsugden's right, in that part of the balance comes in with the fact that most enemies won't survive the 10 rounds it takes for it to have full effect, but the other thing that you have to balance it with is enemies casting the spells on PCs.
At what level is the spell not just an instant death sentence for the wizard or rogue in the party? Or at least, at what level is it not significantly more of a threat than other spells of similar level? Since its damage isn't limited by caster level, it will eventually do more damage to a character than scorching ray or fireball cast at the minimum level.
I'd put it around level 3, and maybe level 4. Although that limits its use on monsters, it's the PCs that we need to worry about. | |
Champion of the Rakshasa. Check out my Mini Terrain Maker, or my new Dungeon Map Maker (under development). | |
|
gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 06/20/2006 4:30 AM |
| | Benimoto has it perfectly. This is exactly like the spell Miasma, fine for PCs to use but not for NPCs. All the PCs need is an NPC popping out from cover, casting the spell, and then running away. You could allow your PCs to use it and just not have NPCs memorize it (you have complete control over that). If you think this is cheezy, just ban it with the rationale of: "If you can use it, so can I." I don't think it's worth bumping up. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
|
| | You are not authorized to post a reply. |
|
| |
ActiveForums 3.7 | You must be signed in to participate in the
games. |