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CarrionCrawler Underboss
 1760 Posts




 | | 07/10/2006 6:56 PM |
| | I saw on another board that classes like the paladin and hexblade with smaller spellcasting progression can benefit from the feat Practiced Spellcaster...I don't understand how that's possible. Can someone shed some light in the Underdark for me? | | Vindicated Night Below Champion of the Digestor!!! Knight of the OozesIcons called shot: Angry MobThe stink of rotten meat surrounds this multilegged creature with a segmented, 10-foot long body. Eight writhing tentacles protrude from its head, growing directly from below its clacking mandibles and tooth-filled maw. | |
| CarrionCrawler Underboss
 1760 Posts




 | | 07/10/2006 8:00 PM |
| | Nothing? No one has anything to add? Bummer. | | Vindicated Night Below Champion of the Digestor!!! Knight of the OozesIcons called shot: Angry MobThe stink of rotten meat surrounds this multilegged creature with a segmented, 10-foot long body. Eight writhing tentacles protrude from its head, growing directly from below its clacking mandibles and tooth-filled maw. | |
|  Most Edumacated zenthrus Warlord
 5132 Posts



 SLC, UT
 | | 07/10/2006 8:37 PM |
| Paladins would be one of the best classes to take Practiced Spellcaster with. Since a Paladin's caster level is normally 1/2 class level, and Practiced Spellcaster adds a bonus to caster level based on hit dice (max of 4), an 8th-level Paladin with Practiced Spellcaster has an effective caster level of 8 (as opposed to the standard CL4).
Casters with normal spell progressions have no business wasting time with Practiced Spellcaster (unless they have hit dice from another source, such as racial hit dice or levels in a non-caster class). | | Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie? Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers Knight of the Large Dire Chicken Have/Want List Trade References | |
| Wayne Underboss
 1371 Posts




 | | 07/10/2006 8:54 PM |
| quote: Originally posted by zenthrus Casters with normal spell progressions have no business wasting time with Practiced Spellcaster (unless they have hit dice from another source, such as racial hit dice or levels in a non-caster class).
Or have levels in two or more spellcasting classes (e.g., the mystic theurge).
In our campaign, we let people divide up the 4 caster levels between their spellcasting classes, raher than assign the whole chunk to one. (Unless of course they only have one.) | | Jeff "Wayne Laredo" Wilder | Email | Have/Want List | Trade Policies | Are You an Ethical Trader?
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| CarrionCrawler Underboss
 1760 Posts




 | | 07/10/2006 9:00 PM |
| | Where is this explained at? In the Practiced Spellcaster feat discription it doesn't mention this. So, my 6th level Hexblade has a caster level of 4 without the feat? | | Vindicated Night Below Champion of the Digestor!!! Knight of the OozesIcons called shot: Angry MobThe stink of rotten meat surrounds this multilegged creature with a segmented, 10-foot long body. Eight writhing tentacles protrude from its head, growing directly from below its clacking mandibles and tooth-filled maw. | |
|  Most Edumacated zenthrus Warlord
 5132 Posts



 SLC, UT
 | | 07/10/2006 9:25 PM |
| It isn't explained very well in the feat description.
The feat allows you to add a bonus of up to 4 to your caster level. This bonus is limited by your hit dice. If you are a spellcaster with normal progression (i.e. Wizard, Sorc, Druid...) your hit dice are normally going to be equal to your caster level. Thus, this is a worthless feat.
If you are, say, a Wizard 5/Fighter 4 (9 Hit Dice), you would normally have a caster level of 5. With this feat, you would have a caster level of 9.
Another example is the paladin. An 8th-level paladin normally has a caster level of 4. Add this feat, they now have a caster level of 8.
Using Wayne's interpretation, assuming you have a Cleric4/Wizard4, that character is normally caster level 4 in both classes. Add this feat, and you could conceivably be caster level 8 cleric/caster level 4 wizard, caster level 6 cleric/caster level 6 wizard, or any other applicable combination.
Hexblades normally have a caster level of 1/2 their class level (they're just like paladins as far as spells go), thus, an 8th-level hexblade taking this feat would have a caster level of 8 rather than 4.
Your 6th-level hexblade should have a caster level of 3. Add the feat and that would go to 6 (and increase to 7 when you advance to 7th level). | | Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie? Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers Knight of the Large Dire Chicken Have/Want List Trade References | |
| CarrionCrawler Underboss
 1760 Posts




 | | 07/10/2006 9:45 PM |
| quote: Originally posted by zenthrus
It isn't explained very well in the feat description.
The feat allows you to add a bonus of up to 4 to your caster level. This bonus is limited by your hit dice. If you are a spellcaster with normal progression (i.e. Wizard, Sorc, Druid...) your hit dice are normally going to be equal to your caster level. Thus, this is a worthless feat.
If you are, say, a Wizard 5/Fighter 4 (9 Hit Dice), you would normally have a caster level of 5. With this feat, you would have a caster level of 9.
Another example is the paladin. An 8th-level paladin normally has a caster level of 4. Add this feat, they now have a caster level of 8.
Using Wayne's interpretation, assuming you have a Cleric4/Wizard4, that character is normally caster level 4 in both classes. Add this feat, and you could conceivably be caster level 8 cleric/caster level 4 wizard, caster level 6 cleric/caster level 6 wizard, or any other applicable combination.
Hexblades normally have a caster level of 1/2 their class level (they're just like paladins as far as spells go), thus, an 8th-level hexblade taking this feat would have a caster level of 8 rather than 4.
Your 6th-level hexblade should have a caster level of 3. Add the feat and that would go to 6 (and increase to 7 when you advance to 7th level).
OK That completely explains everything, thanks! It's like BAB, in that they have poor, good, best, and spellcasters have full, half and none(?). Wow, that kinda makes the spellcasting limited in what it can do offensively. Thanks to both of you. | | Vindicated Night Below Champion of the Digestor!!! Knight of the OozesIcons called shot: Angry MobThe stink of rotten meat surrounds this multilegged creature with a segmented, 10-foot long body. Eight writhing tentacles protrude from its head, growing directly from below its clacking mandibles and tooth-filled maw. | |
| Wayne Underboss
 1371 Posts




 | | 07/10/2006 11:11 PM |
| quote: Originally posted by CarrionCrawler OK That completely explains everything, thanks! It's like BAB, in that they have poor, good, best, and spellcasters have full, half and none(?). Wow, that kinda makes the spellcasting limited in what it can do offensively. Thanks to both of you.
Yes, generally speaking, classes that have spellcasting level of "half class level" typically use those spells almost exclusively for support purposes. Only rarely are they useful for direct offense. (BTW, if a class has slower than normal caster-level progression, it will say so in the class ability section, where it discusses spells.)
Oh, and for the record, our way of doing Practiced Spellcaster isn't an interpretation ... it's a definite not-by-the-book house rule. | | Jeff "Wayne Laredo" Wilder | Email | Have/Want List | Trade Policies | Are You an Ethical Trader?
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|  Zenako Commander
 3472 Posts




 | | 07/11/2006 2:56 PM |
| | You also need to review your spells available to see if the extra caster levels makes much of a difference for anything. It will usually affect duration (but that is often no big deal), sometimes damage dice (like MM or Fireball), or even range, BUT if all you are casting is buff spells or protections, then the change in duration from 4 minutes to 8 minutes might not matter. More than long enough for a single battle, but not long enough to explore a complex. Marginal benefit. If you are casting CLW for d8+4 points, CLW caps at +5 so the benefit is again lessened. As I understand the feat, it raises your CL, not your ability to cast higher level spells, that still takes levels and time. | | Built the addition for this addiction, now on to the "gaming table" project.... http://www.maxminis.com/hw_list.asp?user=Zenako last updated 29 May 2006 Set Status: in a nutshell = all of all In Process trades 0), (Sig last updated 05/29/06) 300 plus Completed Trades -
If I seem scarce at times...blame DDO - Sarlona | |
| TYGRHobbes Sneak
 149 Posts




 | | 07/11/2006 4:59 PM |
| | Isn't that supposed to be a stackable feat? The way we use it is you have to take the feat for each spellcasting class you want to raise. Hence, one of the players I DM is a Wiz3/Druid3/Arcane Heirophant1. She has Practiced Spellcaster (Wizard) and Practiced Spellcaster (Druid) which makes her a caster 6 for both base classes. Then you get the benefits of the Arcane Heirophant on top of that. | | Champion of the Lamia www.tygrhobbes.com | |
|  Most Edumacated zenthrus Warlord
 5132 Posts



 SLC, UT
 | | 07/11/2006 5:14 PM |
| quote: Originally posted by Zenako As I understand the feat, it raises your CL, not your ability to cast higher level spells, that still takes levels and time.
You understand it correctly. Spells that have round/level durations are one of the only benefits (here, Rangers gain the greatest benefit for their Summon Nature's Ally spells).
The main reason I can see for taking this feat is if you're playing a multi-classed primary caster (i.e. Wiz5/Fight4). The increase in damage dice for spells like fireball and the increase to caster level checks for spells like Dispel Magic could be invaluable.
By and large, I think this is a very limited use feat. There are a variety of better feats to choose from. | | Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie? Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers Knight of the Large Dire Chicken Have/Want List Trade References | |
| nycfarmkid Underboss
 1210 Posts



 Wadsworth, OH
 | | 07/11/2006 7:19 PM |
| quote: Originally posted by TYGRHobbes
Isn't that supposed to be a stackable feat? The way we use it is you have to take the feat for each spellcasting class you want to raise. Hence, one of the players I DM is a Wiz3/Druid3/Arcane Heirophant1. She has Practiced Spellcaster (Wizard) and Practiced Spellcaster (Druid) which makes her a caster 6 for both base classes. Then you get the benefits of the Arcane Heirophant on top of that.
This is correct as far as I know. This is also the way we play with the feat.
I like the feat. I've used it in a mystic theurge build and a fighter/wizard build. Very nice to have. Keep in mind that some of the ranger and paladin buff spells only last for a round/lvl. 4 more rounds is a big deal for holy sword. | | Looking to buy some figures? Chances are I may have them!! Check here!! My Reference Thread | My Warbands | My Ebay Auctions | My Qualifier Warband Champion of Spellswords
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| TYGRHobbes Sneak
 149 Posts




 | | 07/12/2006 12:16 AM |
| | If anyone plays monsters from Savage Species this is a good feat to get to add those racial HD to your caster level. | | Champion of the Lamia www.tygrhobbes.com | |
| nycfarmkid Underboss
 1210 Posts



 Wadsworth, OH
 | | Meemoo Skirmisher
 5 Posts




 | | 07/12/2006 7:52 AM |
| | Practised Spellcaster is an awesome feat, improving the viability of many hybrid builds, especially 'gish' ones. By raising the caster level back to the hit dice cap, it strengthens one's buffs against dispel checks (important even if you're mainly a buffing spellcaster), and brings your spells in line with 'full' progression casters. Your own dispel checks too, are improved. | | | |
|  Most Edumacated zenthrus Warlord
 5132 Posts



 SLC, UT
 | | 07/12/2006 10:52 AM |
| quote: Originally posted by nycfarmkid
So here's another question. say you are playing a monster class from savage species that can cast spell like abilities. Would practiced spellcaster add to your caster levels for those? Say you have 14 HD but have spell like abilities at 11th level?
Yes. If you have 14 HD but cast spell-like abilities at 11th level, the Practiced Spellcaster feat would bump your caster level up to 14th (+4 bonus, limited by your hit dice). | | Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie? Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers Knight of the Large Dire Chicken Have/Want List Trade References | |
|  Most Edumacated zenthrus Warlord
 5132 Posts



 SLC, UT
 | | 07/14/2006 2:03 AM |
| OK, here's a brain-bender.....
Hypothetical situation:
Character has levels in a non-primary casting class (we'll use paladin as the example). Said character is attempting to qualify for a particular prestige class. Said prestige class has a requirement of "divine spellcaster level 5." Assuming that the Paladin is 5th-level (so, caster level 2), providing the palading takes Practiced Spellcaster (up to +4 caster level, in this case bringing his caster level up to 5), does that satisfy this specific requirement for the prestige class?
Logically (going by the wording of the feat and PrC reqs) I don't see any reason it wouldn't, but the cheese potential there is astronomical..... | | Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie? Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers Knight of the Large Dire Chicken Have/Want List Trade References | |
| TYGRHobbes Sneak
 149 Posts




 | | 07/14/2006 4:46 AM |
| quote: Originally posted by zenthrus
OK, here's a brain-bender.....
Hypothetical situation:
Character has levels in a non-primary casting class (we'll use paladin as the example). Said character is attempting to qualify for a particular prestige class. Said prestige class has a requirement of "divine spellcaster level 5." Assuming that the Paladin is 5th-level (so, caster level 2), providing the palading takes Practiced Spellcaster (up to +4 caster level, in this case bringing his caster level up to 5), does that satisfy this specific requirement for the prestige class?
Logically (going by the wording of the feat and PrC reqs) I don't see any reason it wouldn't, but the cheese potential there is astronomical.....
I would think it would work if it said "divine spellcaster level 5". Now if it said "ability to cast 3rd level spells" (btw that's a 5th level cleric) I would definitely say no. | | Champion of the Lamia www.tygrhobbes.com | |
| Benimoto Underboss
 1125 Posts




 | | 07/14/2006 9:59 AM |
| quote: Originally posted by zenthrus
OK, here's a brain-bender.....
Hypothetical situation:
Character has levels in a non-primary casting class (we'll use paladin as the example). Said character is attempting to qualify for a particular prestige class. Said prestige class has a requirement of "divine spellcaster level 5." Assuming that the Paladin is 5th-level (so, caster level 2), providing the palading takes Practiced Spellcaster (up to +4 caster level, in this case bringing his caster level up to 5), does that satisfy this specific requirement for the prestige class?
Logically (going by the wording of the feat and PrC reqs) I don't see any reason it wouldn't, but the cheese potential there is astronomical.....
Yeah, it works, and it's an easier way to get into classes whose requirements are phrased "X spellcaster level Y". But, as TYGRHobbes mentioned, many classes have the requirement "ability to case X level spells". | | Champion of the Rakshasa. Check out my Mini Terrain Maker, or my new Dungeon Map Maker (under development). | |
| gss_000 Commander
 3204 Posts



 Baltimore, MD
 | | 07/14/2006 9:41 PM |
| quote: Originally posted by Meemoo
Practised Spellcaster is an awesome feat, improving the viability of many hybrid builds, especially 'gish' ones. By raising the caster level back to the hit dice cap, it strengthens one's buffs against dispel checks (important even if you're mainly a buffing spellcaster), and brings your spells in line with 'full' progression casters. Your own dispel checks too, are improved.
I have to agree with this statement, even if you are not a gish and are a straight mage. I played a wizard from 1st to 16th level in Living Greyhawk and this was so important to have when I was finishing out a Pclass that lost spell levels (Elemental Savant). I didn't care about the loss of spells as much as duration, damage, etc that a reduction in caster level caused. | | Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
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