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Subject: Practiced Spellcaster????

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CarrionCrawler
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07/10/2006 6:56 PM  
I saw on another board that classes like the paladin and hexblade with smaller spellcasting progression can benefit from the feat Practiced Spellcaster...I don't understand how that's possible. Can someone shed some light in the Underdark for me?

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07/10/2006 8:00 PM  
Nothing? No one has anything to add? Bummer.

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zenthrus
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07/10/2006 8:37 PM  
Paladins would be one of the best classes to take Practiced Spellcaster with. Since a Paladin's caster level is normally 1/2 class level, and Practiced Spellcaster adds a bonus to caster level based on hit dice (max of 4), an 8th-level Paladin with Practiced Spellcaster has an effective caster level of 8 (as opposed to the standard CL4).

Casters with normal spell progressions have no business wasting time with Practiced Spellcaster (unless they have hit dice from another source, such as racial hit dice or levels in a non-caster class).

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Wayne
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07/10/2006 8:54 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by zenthrus
Casters with normal spell progressions have no business wasting time with Practiced Spellcaster (unless they have hit dice from another source, such as racial hit dice or levels in a non-caster class).
Or have levels in two or more spellcasting classes (e.g., the mystic theurge).

In our campaign, we let people divide up the 4 caster levels between their spellcasting classes, raher than assign the whole chunk to one. (Unless of course they only have one.)

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CarrionCrawler
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07/10/2006 9:00 PM  
Where is this explained at? In the Practiced Spellcaster feat discription it doesn't mention this. So, my 6th level Hexblade has a caster level of 4 without the feat?

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zenthrus
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07/10/2006 9:25 PM  
It isn't explained very well in the feat description.

The feat allows you to add a bonus of up to 4 to your caster level. This bonus is limited by your hit dice. If you are a spellcaster with normal progression (i.e. Wizard, Sorc, Druid...) your hit dice are normally going to be equal to your caster level. Thus, this is a worthless feat.

If you are, say, a Wizard 5/Fighter 4 (9 Hit Dice), you would normally have a caster level of 5. With this feat, you would have a caster level of 9.

Another example is the paladin. An 8th-level paladin normally has a caster level of 4. Add this feat, they now have a caster level of 8.

Using Wayne's interpretation, assuming you have a Cleric4/Wizard4, that character is normally caster level 4 in both classes. Add this feat, and you could conceivably be caster level 8 cleric/caster level 4 wizard, caster level 6 cleric/caster level 6 wizard, or any other applicable combination.

Hexblades normally have a caster level of 1/2 their class level (they're just like paladins as far as spells go), thus, an 8th-level hexblade taking this feat would have a caster level of 8 rather than 4.

Your 6th-level hexblade should have a caster level of 3. Add the feat and that would go to 6 (and increase to 7 when you advance to 7th level).

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07/10/2006 9:45 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by zenthrus

It isn't explained very well in the feat description.

The feat allows you to add a bonus of up to 4 to your caster level. This bonus is limited by your hit dice. If you are a spellcaster with normal progression (i.e. Wizard, Sorc, Druid...) your hit dice are normally going to be equal to your caster level. Thus, this is a worthless feat.

If you are, say, a Wizard 5/Fighter 4 (9 Hit Dice), you would normally have a caster level of 5. With this feat, you would have a caster level of 9.

Another example is the paladin. An 8th-level paladin normally has a caster level of 4. Add this feat, they now have a caster level of 8.

Using Wayne's interpretation, assuming you have a Cleric4/Wizard4, that character is normally caster level 4 in both classes. Add this feat, and you could conceivably be caster level 8 cleric/caster level 4 wizard, caster level 6 cleric/caster level 6 wizard, or any other applicable combination.

Hexblades normally have a caster level of 1/2 their class level (they're just like paladins as far as spells go), thus, an 8th-level hexblade taking this feat would have a caster level of 8 rather than 4.

Your 6th-level hexblade should have a caster level of 3. Add the feat and that would go to 6 (and increase to 7 when you advance to 7th level).



OK That completely explains everything, thanks! It's like BAB, in that they have poor, good, best, and spellcasters have full, half and
none(?). Wow, that kinda makes the spellcasting limited in what it can do offensively. Thanks to both of you.

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07/10/2006 11:11 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by CarrionCrawler
OK That completely explains everything, thanks! It's like BAB, in that they have poor, good, best, and spellcasters have full, half and
none(?). Wow, that kinda makes the spellcasting limited in what it can do offensively. Thanks to both of you.
Yes, generally speaking, classes that have spellcasting level of "half class level" typically use those spells almost exclusively for support purposes. Only rarely are they useful for direct offense. (BTW, if a class has slower than normal caster-level progression, it will say so in the class ability section, where it discusses spells.)

Oh, and for the record, our way of doing Practiced Spellcaster isn't an interpretation ... it's a definite not-by-the-book house rule.

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Zenako
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07/11/2006 2:56 PM  
You also need to review your spells available to see if the extra caster levels makes much of a difference for anything. It will usually affect duration (but that is often no big deal), sometimes damage dice (like MM or Fireball), or even range, BUT if all you are casting is buff spells or protections, then the change in duration from 4 minutes to 8 minutes might not matter. More than long enough for a single battle, but not long enough to explore a complex. Marginal benefit. If you are casting CLW for d8+4 points, CLW caps at +5 so the benefit is again lessened. As I understand the feat, it raises your CL, not your ability to cast higher level spells, that still takes levels and time.

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07/11/2006 4:59 PM  
Isn't that supposed to be a stackable feat? The way we use it is you have to take the feat for each spellcasting class you want to raise. Hence, one of the players I DM is a Wiz3/Druid3/Arcane Heirophant1. She has Practiced Spellcaster (Wizard) and Practiced Spellcaster (Druid) which makes her a caster 6 for both base classes. Then you get the benefits of the Arcane Heirophant on top of that.

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zenthrus
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07/11/2006 5:14 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by Zenako
As I understand the feat, it raises your CL, not your ability to cast higher level spells, that still takes levels and time.


You understand it correctly. Spells that have round/level durations are one of the only benefits (here, Rangers gain the greatest benefit for their Summon Nature's Ally spells).

The main reason I can see for taking this feat is if you're playing a multi-classed primary caster (i.e. Wiz5/Fight4). The increase in damage dice for spells like fireball and the increase to caster level checks for spells like Dispel Magic could be invaluable.

By and large, I think this is a very limited use feat. There are a variety of better feats to choose from.

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07/11/2006 7:19 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by TYGRHobbes

Isn't that supposed to be a stackable feat? The way we use it is you have to take the feat for each spellcasting class you want to raise. Hence, one of the players I DM is a Wiz3/Druid3/Arcane Heirophant1. She has Practiced Spellcaster (Wizard) and Practiced Spellcaster (Druid) which makes her a caster 6 for both base classes. Then you get the benefits of the Arcane Heirophant on top of that.



This is correct as far as I know. This is also the way we play with the feat.

I like the feat. I've used it in a mystic theurge build and a fighter/wizard build. Very nice to have. Keep in mind that some of the ranger and paladin buff spells only last for a round/lvl. 4 more rounds is a big deal for holy sword.

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07/12/2006 12:16 AM  
If anyone plays monsters from Savage Species this is a good feat to get to add those racial HD to your caster level.

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07/12/2006 7:37 AM  
So here's another question. say you are playing a monster class from savage species that can cast spell like abilities. Would practiced spellcaster add to your caster levels for those? Say you have 14 HD but have spell like abilities at 11th level?

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07/12/2006 7:52 AM  
Practised Spellcaster is an awesome feat, improving the viability of many hybrid builds, especially 'gish' ones. By raising the caster level back to the hit dice cap, it strengthens one's buffs against dispel checks (important even if you're mainly a buffing spellcaster), and brings your spells in line with 'full' progression casters. Your own dispel checks too, are improved.


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07/12/2006 10:52 AM  
quote:
Originally posted by nycfarmkid

So here's another question. say you are playing a monster class from savage species that can cast spell like abilities. Would practiced spellcaster add to your caster levels for those? Say you have 14 HD but have spell like abilities at 11th level?


Yes. If you have 14 HD but cast spell-like abilities at 11th level, the Practiced Spellcaster feat would bump your caster level up to 14th (+4 bonus, limited by your hit dice).

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07/14/2006 2:03 AM  
OK, here's a brain-bender.....

Hypothetical situation:

Character has levels in a non-primary casting class (we'll use paladin as the example). Said character is attempting to qualify for a particular prestige class. Said prestige class has a requirement of "divine spellcaster level 5." Assuming that the Paladin is 5th-level (so, caster level 2), providing the palading takes Practiced Spellcaster (up to +4 caster level, in this case bringing his caster level up to 5), does that satisfy this specific requirement for the prestige class?

Logically (going by the wording of the feat and PrC reqs) I don't see any reason it wouldn't, but the cheese potential there is astronomical.....

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07/14/2006 4:46 AM  
quote:
Originally posted by zenthrus

OK, here's a brain-bender.....

Hypothetical situation:

Character has levels in a non-primary casting class (we'll use paladin as the example). Said character is attempting to qualify for a particular prestige class. Said prestige class has a requirement of "divine spellcaster level 5." Assuming that the Paladin is 5th-level (so, caster level 2), providing the palading takes Practiced Spellcaster (up to +4 caster level, in this case bringing his caster level up to 5), does that satisfy this specific requirement for the prestige class?

Logically (going by the wording of the feat and PrC reqs) I don't see any reason it wouldn't, but the cheese potential there is astronomical.....



I would think it would work if it said "divine spellcaster level 5". Now if it said "ability to cast 3rd level spells" (btw that's a 5th level cleric) I would definitely say no.

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07/14/2006 9:59 AM  
quote:
Originally posted by zenthrus

OK, here's a brain-bender.....

Hypothetical situation:

Character has levels in a non-primary casting class (we'll use paladin as the example). Said character is attempting to qualify for a particular prestige class. Said prestige class has a requirement of "divine spellcaster level 5." Assuming that the Paladin is 5th-level (so, caster level 2), providing the palading takes Practiced Spellcaster (up to +4 caster level, in this case bringing his caster level up to 5), does that satisfy this specific requirement for the prestige class?

Logically (going by the wording of the feat and PrC reqs) I don't see any reason it wouldn't, but the cheese potential there is astronomical.....


Yeah, it works, and it's an easier way to get into classes whose requirements are phrased "X spellcaster level Y". But, as TYGRHobbes mentioned, many classes have the requirement "ability to case X level spells".

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07/14/2006 9:41 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by Meemoo

Practised Spellcaster is an awesome feat, improving the viability of many hybrid builds, especially 'gish' ones. By raising the caster level back to the hit dice cap, it strengthens one's buffs against dispel checks (important even if you're mainly a buffing spellcaster), and brings your spells in line with 'full' progression casters. Your own dispel checks too, are improved.



I have to agree with this statement, even if you are not a gish and are a straight mage. I played a wizard from 1st to 16th level in Living Greyhawk and this was so important to have when I was finishing out a Pclass that lost spell levels (Elemental Savant). I didn't care about the loss of spells as much as duration, damage, etc that a reduction in caster level caused.

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