kyrin
Commander
3152 Posts
    
 | | 07/16/2006 2:28 PM |
| Hello all!
Well, I just finished going over Dragondown Grotto as a potential addition to my campaign. All in all, I think it's a solid adventure, albeit a little underpowered for 10th-level characters. Details follow, spoilers ahoy!
The premise is a good one. Sorcerer Dude hires PCs to get some dragon eggs from a hidden nursery. There's a good potential tie-in with Red Hand of Doom, as the Talons of Tiamat make an appearance at the nursery. Meepo-haters stay away, because His Meepness makes an appearance (LN instead of LG, but still essentially on the good guys' side).
To foil the Sorcerer's Evil Plan to raise a Dracolich, the PCs must fetch a couple of eggs that can summon Aspects of Bahamut and Tiamat. The Bahamut egg is in the lair of a Large Green Dragon, and Mama's egg is in a Dragon's Graveyard. The Large Green Dragon encounter presents an interesting tactial challenge with the lair terrain and the inclusion of Blood Rock which the dragon can exploit. The Dragon's Graveyard challenges the players with a couple of Cadaver Collectors, a pair of skeletal dragons, and some spectres. The idea of a "Dragon's Graveyard" could be gamebreaking, however -- but maybe your players don't have the kind of entreprenural spirit that mine do. [:D]
The Final Confrontation takes place in the eponymous Grotto, as the Sorcerer on Black Dragon (yes, he does have a name, but that's how we'll recognize him!) tries to raise his case companion, the Dracolich. This is where I think things are a little underpowered, since the PCs will have both Aspects on their side. Also, even if the Dracolich is raised, it flies away without fighting. I guess the thinking is that the PCs will be drained after the previous encounters, but I can't see my guys going into something like this without resting and regenerating. 10th-level characters will be able to teleport back to a home base and then back, so I doubt a thinking party would be at less than full strength. I guess the DM is supposed to emphasize that time is of the essence. Also as a DM I would let the players run the Aspects -- or even have the Aspects possess and transform a PC -- so that the players are not just spectators.
As I said, a solid adventure, with nice variety and a few unexpected twists to keep players on their toes. How does it rank compared to the other Fantastic Locations adventures? I'd put it third, but only because Hellspike Prison and Fields of Ruin fit so well into my current campaign. This one will take some shoehorning and a bit of modification, but I would like to run it someday. And the maps are gorgeous.
What minis do you need to run this? Lessee, aside from random encounters:
Medium Gold Dragon + Medium Black Dragon for a statue trap
Blackscale Lizard-dudes x9
Talons of Tiamat x7 (I think I'll use one ToT and 6 Sarges, thanks)
Meepo-matic
Medium Silver Dragon
Small Black Dragon
Ogres x4 (Skirmishers or Skullcrushers)
Basilisk x8 (Hmmm... How many do I have?)
Large Green Dragon
Cadaver Collector x2
Large Dragon Skeletons (Hmmm... Just use dragon minis?)
Spectre x4 (I'll use Cursed Spirits)
Dragonne x4
Aspect of Bahamut
Aspect of Tiamat
Sorcerer on Black Dragon (See? It does have a use!]
Well, well, quite a bit of WotDQ tie-in, eh?
What do others think of the adventure? Anyone plan on running it in the future?
JIM
aka kyrin
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DarkWhite
Warrior
185 Posts
| | 07/16/2006 11:31 PM |
| I'm a little surprised at the high quantity of some of the minis required. 2x Cadaver Collectors and 4x Dragonnes? These are RARES! Also many other Rares appearing individually. Even the Uncommons, 9x Blackscale Lizardfolk, 8x Basilisks will be difficult for the average collector to produce.
7x Talons of Tiamat, these are the Blackspawn Exterminators? This is why we need an Organisation entry in the MM4, so we can estimate how many of a particular figure we need at a glance.
Thanks for the spoiler. Looking forward to collecting these maps. | |
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Can of the Cave Beer
Commander
2838 Posts
| | 07/17/2006 12:15 AM |
| "Talon of Tiamat" refers, I believe, to the Hobgoblin Talon of Tiamat and not the Blackspawn Raiders/Executioner.
Another Rare "needed" in quantity. [v] Everything else sounds pretty good though. I guess most folks will end up proxying a fair amount, though. Even I don't have that many Blackscales. | |
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MechaKingGhidra
Sergeant
632 Posts
| | 07/17/2006 3:16 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by kyrin
Medium Gold Dragon + Medium Black Dragon for a statue trap
I have that one covered but the Gold one? Sure, if I can blow a third of my current budget for DDM on a single mini. I have a Sorcerer on Black Dragon coming in, though, as part of a pending trade.
All together, that is a very big list of minis but then again, my collection is size category diminuitive so my shock at the seemingly large list is understandable. I'm not even sure if I can even reasonably sub for so much as even a quarter of the list, actually. | |
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DarkWhite
Warrior
185 Posts
| | 07/17/2006 4:02 AM |
| I think the Fantasic Locations series would be a lot more useful if they featured more Common/Uncommons and not insane quantities, using Rares sparingly for the climactic encounters. That would appeal to a broader audience, and allow more newcomers to enjoy these products.
Don't get me wrong, I love these maps, and will find a way to use them in my own games. I just wish I could make better use of the RPG adventure contained within. | |
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yack
Commander
3164 Posts
Gatineau Canada
| | 07/17/2006 7:16 AM |
| | I'm like kyrin I have pretty much everything covered the only thing that bugs me is I wish the module had a dracolich in it. Sorcerer on a huge black is awesome, though finally found a use. | |
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kyrin
Commander
3152 Posts
| | 07/17/2006 9:28 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by MechaKingGhidra
quote:
Originally posted by kyrin
Medium Gold Dragon + Medium Black Dragon for a statue trap
I have that one covered but the Gold one? Sure, if I can blow a third of my current budget for DDM on a single mini. I have a Sorcerer on Black Dragon coming in, though, as part of a pending trade.
Li'l Goldie is not really needed except to add a little color to a statue trap at the entrance, and freak players out. The SoBD is pretty much a necessity, however, being the BBEG and all...
JIM
aka kyrin | |
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kyrin
Commander
3152 Posts
| | 07/17/2006 9:30 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by yack
I'm like kyrin I have pretty much everything covered the only thing that bugs me is I wish the module had a dracolich in it. Sorcerer on a huge black is awesome, though finally found a use.
I suppose that if the PCs are walking all over the adventure, the Dracolich could stick around for the end. But I can see the point that it doesn't have its phylactery, and so might want to just cut and run to recur another day. [)]
JIM
aka kyrin | |
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Nobody Important
Sergeant
718 Posts
| | 07/17/2006 8:44 PM |
| Take another look at those dragon skeletons using in the graveyard. It may say they are RED dragon skeletons but it seems they expect you to use the available blue dragon "skeleton" in the encounter. Look at the map, those piles of bones grow into HUGE skeletons meaning they expect you to have two dracolich minis around for proper adventure use.
I'd agree that it would be much nicer if they could make the "adventure" portion of Fantastic Locations less dependent on Rare minis in large numbers. Admittedly that is where many of the "monsters" are but it would still be nice to see them make better use of common figures. When the Frostfields (or whatever its called) comes out it will probably include encounters with multiple Frost Giants and mounted Giants. These are almost as bad as all the StarWars scenarios that expect you to use certain figures, except that in StarWars most of those figure are unique (as most R/VR are)and in DDM their not so multiple are encouraged.
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DarkWhite
Warrior
185 Posts
| | 07/17/2006 11:11 PM |
| IIRC, Fantastic Locations refer players to the WotC website to look for web enhancements, additional scenarios etc to use with the maps.
There have been some new DDM skirmish scenarios released on the site, but very little RPG support for maps or minis (other than encounter tables, which I don't find much use for).
If you can get your hands on 2005 World Games Day adventure, that was an introductory one-session adventure played on the Fane of Lolth map.
This is exactly the kind of web enhancement I would like to see for Fantasic Locations maps. Particulaly if they can mix things up a bit, or provide some variety from the published adventure.
For example:
- If Dragondown Grotto is high level and heavy on Rares, then release a new adventure for a Dragondown Grotto map, but lower level featuring more common/uncommon figures;
- Breathe new life into old Fantastic Locations maps by featuring minis from recent sets;
- Bring back favourite minis from older sets in an adventure set around a new Fantastic Locations map.
Many of these Fantastic Locations adventures are higher level than I usually play. Other players may prefer higher level challenges. Some players may have minis from older sets they want to get more use from, while others have only just started collecting. Repurposing maps for different needs helps everyone get the most out of them. | |
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kyrin
Commander
3152 Posts
| | 07/17/2006 11:42 PM |
| Spectacular idea, DarkWhite! Let's hope Wizard's is listening...
JIM
aka kyrin | |
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Goldmoon
Sergeant
986 Posts
| | 07/18/2006 4:04 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by DarkWhite
I think the Fantasic Locations series would be a lot more useful if they featured more Common/Uncommons and not insane quantities, using Rares sparingly for the climactic encounters. That would appeal to a broader audience, and allow more newcomers to enjoy these products.
And it will lighten our pockets as well.
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Lab Monkey
Commander
4135 Posts
| | 07/18/2006 10:17 AM |
| Ok lets see...
[^]: check
Medium Gold Dragon [^]
Medium Black Dragon[^]
Blackscale Lizard-dudes x9: Whoa, that's a lot. I'm 1 short.
Talons of Tiamat x7 Yeah right. At least hobgoblins come in enough varieties to fill this need.
Meepo-matic[^]
Medium Silver Dragon[^]
Small Black Dragon[^]
Ogres x4 (Skirmishers or Skullcrushers)[^]
Basilisk x8 According to the MM the maximum group size is 6.
Large Green Dragon[^]
Cadaver Collector x2 Most will only have 1 of these, but two is still possible.
Large Dragon Skeletons I hope they have this planned for Blood War or something.
Spectre x4 Way too many of a rare to require. At least there are numerous good proxies (cursed spirits, sacred watchers, etc.)
Dragonne x4 Now this is totally ridiculous. 4 Dragonees! Ironically according to the MM, they don't come in groups of 4. "Solitary, pair, or pride (5–10)"
Aspect of Bahamut[^]
Aspect of Tiamat[^]
Sorcerer on Black Dragon[^]
I'm a pretty hardcore collector and I can't fill some of these. The dragonees are particularly ridiculous.
I find it especially annoying when their encounters deviate from the creature organizations from the MM. Sigh....
Still, I can't wait to get my hands on these new maps. I just have to wait 'til next months mini budget becomes available. | |
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doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 07/18/2006 1:51 PM |
| I am one short of the dragonne, and don't have any Talons of Tiamat, but I have plenty of the rest.
At least it is not as bad as the pack of barghests that was previously suggested.. | |
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zenthrus
Commander
4836 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 07/18/2006 1:57 PM |
| Hmmm...I'm short a lot for this one. Only have 2 Dragonnes and 3 skullcrushers, not to mention a mere 2 basilisks.
On the bright side, I have more than enough Specters (I love those guys) and I have the pack of Barghests for the Hellspike [:P] | |
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kyrin
Commander
3152 Posts
| | 07/18/2006 3:06 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by doubtofbuddha
I am one short of the dragonne, and don't have any Talons of Tiamat, but I have plenty of the rest.
At least it is not as bad as the pack of barghests that was previously suggested..
Uh, yeah. I just changed them to advanced Hell Hounds.
And I'll just use one Talon of Tiamat for the leader, and fill in the rest with Hobgob Sarges.
I've got three Dragonnes -- maybe I'll just advance 'em.
The 8 basilisks are not encountered all at once, so I think I can get by with that.
The Dragonnes and Basilisks are "pets," so I can see that as an excuse for exceeding the Recommended Daily Allotment... [:D]
JIM
aka kyrin | |
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Count Dooku
Commander
4636 Posts
New York
| | 07/18/2006 4:20 PM |
| I won 2 Basilisks...Who encounters more than 1 or 2? I traded them away. Im annoyed.
More than one Drgonne is rediculus to. I wont be collecting more just to run this adventure.
In 4 cases I got 4 Cadaver Collectors. I planed on trading away 3 and keeping 1 (who needs more than One...I guess I do now).
Summoning Tamat and Bhamut to fight side-by-side against the BBEG...Does anyone else think this is really cheesy?
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MerricB
Underboss
2350 Posts
Australia
| | 07/18/2006 8:51 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by DarkWhite
I'm a little surprised at the high quantity of some of the minis required. 2x Cadaver Collectors and 4x Dragonnes? These are RARES! Also many other Rares appearing individually. Even the Uncommons, 9x Blackscale Lizardfolk, 8x Basilisks will be difficult for the average collector to produce.
7x Talons of Tiamat, these are the Blackspawn Exterminators? This is why we need an Organisation entry in the MM4, so we can estimate how many of a particular figure we need at a glance.
Thanks for the spoiler. Looking forward to collecting these maps.
One interesting point is how much easier such numbers are to get when a bunch of people in your gaming group all collect DDM! Four Dragonnes is really a proxy type of thing for most people, but if you had five dedicated DDM collectors in a D&D group, it'd be very easy!
High-level adventures are tricky, of course, due to most good opponents being rare...
Cheers! | |
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Darastrix Maekrix
dariustad
Warlord
6322 Posts
| | 07/18/2006 11:11 PM |
| See, this module was lacking the one mini with quantity that would have really driven everyone crazy:
Stirge x12 [}:)][:D][)] | |
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
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taliesin
Underboss
1113 Posts
| | 07/19/2006 12:06 AM |
| | Golden Protectors (and Manticores) can proxy for dragonnes if you need to fill out the roster for this adventure. (that's what I'd use, anyway...) | |
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kumaiti
Warrior
201 Posts
Moscow - Russia
| | 07/19/2006 3:09 AM |
| I liked the adventure except for one detail.
In the description of the green dragon treasure, it says that she knows that the egg is magical but she doesn't know what it does and how.
However, in the description of the eggs in a sidebar, it is written that "any creature with inteligence higher than 9 understands what the eggs are for just by touching it"...
Am I missing something (like alignment restrictions on who can understand the purpose of the egg) or is that a big plot hole??
Of course the green dragon wouldn't try to use egg against the adventurers, but she definitely will not want to depart with such a powerful weapon against her so easily... | |
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Count Dooku
Commander
4636 Posts
New York
| | 07/19/2006 7:25 AM |
| quote:
One interesting point is how much easier such numbers are to get when a bunch of people in your gaming group all collect DDM! Four Dragonnes is really a proxy type of thing for most people, but if you had five dedicated DDM collectors in a D&D group, it'd be very easy!
I envy you and the magical fantasy world you live in. [:(] | |
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CarrionCrawler
Underboss
1760 Posts
| | 07/19/2006 3:24 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by kyrin
The Final Confrontation takes place in the eponymous Grotto, as the Sorcerer on Black Dragon (yes, he does have a name, but that's how we'll recognize him!)
OK, so what's his name? I need to know it's not something stupid. [:P] | |
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Can of the Cave Beer
Commander
2838 Posts
| | 07/20/2006 1:43 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by taliesin
Golden Protectors (and Manticores) can proxy for dragonnes if you need to fill out the roster for this adventure. (that's what I'd use, anyway...)
Don't forget the Dire Lions! They just need some paper wings taped to their backs. [:D] Or was I the only one who got nailed with those beasties?
Of course, I already have three Dragonnes, but *shrug* I'm lacking on many of the others. | |
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kyrin
Commander
3152 Posts
| | 07/20/2006 9:26 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by CarrionCrawler
quote:
Originally posted by kyrin
The Final Confrontation takes place in the eponymous Grotto, as the Sorcerer on Black Dragon (yes, he does have a name, but that's how we'll recognize him!)
OK, so what's his name? I need to know it's not something stupid. [:P]
Targan Klem, 10th-level Sorcerer, and the dragon is named Blackbone.
JIM
aka kyrin | |
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BigBC
Sergeant
620 Posts
| | 07/20/2006 10:09 AM |
| | Hey Count, now that the SoBD is in a published adventure are you a fan? [:D] | |
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Count Dooku
Commander
4636 Posts
New York
| | 07/20/2006 10:23 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by BigBC
Hey Count, now that the SoBD is in a published adventure are you a fan? [:D]
Slightly feeling better...But nope still not a fan :) | |
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TheBlackFlail
Sneak
57 Posts
| | 07/22/2006 3:14 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by kyrin
quote:
Originally posted by yack
I'm like kyrin I have pretty much everything covered the only thing that bugs me is I wish the module had a dracolich in it. Sorcerer on a huge black is awesome, though finally found a use.
I suppose that if the PCs are walking all over the adventure, the Dracolich could stick around for the end. But I can see the point that it doesn't have its phylactery, and so might want to just cut and run to recur another day. [)]
As the dracolich is a great blue wyrm dracolich (weighing in at mere CR 28), I think if you have the dracolich hang out for a while, it can pretty much mulch the PCs in a jiffy. In fact, he could probably mulch the PCs, Targan & Blacksbone, and the aspects and still have time to make his lunch date at the Four Seasons ;) | |
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*censored*
glumag
Warlord
5968 Posts
| | 07/29/2006 7:19 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Lab Monkey
I find it especially annoying when their encounters deviate from the creature organizations from the MM. Sigh....
Maybe that is why they have done away with the organization line in the stats block in their newer publications...maybe they thought it was limiting sales. Highly annoying.
I could've swore there were only 8 Blacksacle lizardfolks at one instance...oh well, I can use a Khumat as a band leader. | |
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mazra
Sergeant
358 Posts
Canton, GA
| | 12/31/2006 11:50 AM |
| Hi Everyone,
I just finished running a group of PC's through the third part of the Dragondown Grotto, the part referred to as the Dragon Graveyard. It can be a bit rough for four 10th level characters. The first Cadaver Collector was able to pin the party's sorcerer to its back. The second Cadaver Collector managed to collect the party's Thief. The Cleric and Fighter had their hands full. They ended up using the Aspect of Bahamut to hold off the Collectors, so they could heal up. It was a tough battle for them. Cadaver Collectors are very tough encounters at this level. One would have been tough, but two with Specters and Skeletal Dragons made it a real a challenge.
The party did not have a tough time with the Green Dragon in the previous portion of the module.
It is a great module. I am not one to get upset if I don't have enough minis of a certain type. I have been using proxies since I became a DM back 1979.
I am curious if anyone else had a real fight in the Dragon Graveyard.
Happy New Year!
Mazra | | | |
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