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Originally posted by MechaKingGhidra

Doesn't dealing at least 50 damage in one blow to pretty much any creature force it to save or die? If so, that is a bloody well powerhouse character you have there. I don't think there are that many options to make it that much more impressive but then again I usually play Sorcerers, not Paladins, so I don't have any experience in that field of fanciful ideas.

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Originally posted by nycfarmkid

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Originally posted by MechaKingGhidra

Doesn't dealing at least 50 damage in one blow to pretty much any creature force it to save or die? If so, that is a bloody well powerhouse character you have there. I don't think there are that many options to make it that much more impressive but then again I usually play Sorcerers, not Paladins, so I don't have any experience in that field of fanciful ideas.

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In our games we have removed this optional rule entirely. It doesn't happen all the time, but doing over 50 damage to an enemy on one attack does happen on a semi regular basis. Also, PC's are often forced to make such checks a lot more than their opponents. Once you get to higher levels, 50 HP isn't too big of a loss at all. It always seemed silly for a dragon iwth 300+ hit points to roll a 1 and die from a luck crit with a spear or arrow.

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Originally posted by Malin Lug

All in all... a one hit wonder. You should be able to drop most CR9 creatures with a single hit, but there are alot of weaknesses on such a min/max build. With an effective 22 Chr, your saves should all be really good, but like maijstral said, anything that has a ranged touch attack against you with no save, is going to hurt. You have absolutely nothing against any flying creatures. Overspecialization can really come back and bite you. Fighting against a bunch of Slaads, who are CN could really put a world of hurt on you.

Umm oh yea for any of that range touch stuff, they get one spell then there dead, that is unless they can go invisible, have greater invisibility, or have a fly spell in which i hold my action for my wizard to dispell, and when that happens POP! For the whole slaads thing... I went with a Ganeric +2 to curb some of that risk, so i can choose when to power attack, and any situation that the DM throws at us, it will create a possable strength for one of our other party memebers to be more efficent than me because everything is a give and take like you said Malin. Not every can do everything well but I can do 3 things really well and that is, Be hard to hit, Dish out dmg, and have good saves. If anyone creates a character with more than 2 strengths did a really good build on there character.

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Originally posted by orcmonk220

That is serious overkill, but stop and think for a minute... Sure, you can kill a lot, but, really, where does that leave the rest of the group? There's no 'I' in team.

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Originally posted by MechaKingGhidra

Doesn't dealing at least 50 damage in one blow to pretty much any creature force it to save or die? If so, that is a bloody well powerhouse character you have there. I don't think there are that many options to make it that much more impressive but then again I usually play Sorcerers, not Paladins, so I don't have any experience in that field of fanciful ideas.

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Originally posted by maijstral


grapple attacks(a behir for example has +25 to grapple,grappled you can't use your greatsword and all the added bonuses ),ranged touch attacks(a couple of rays of enfebb and your day is shot,try standing up with all that armor let alone fighting with str 4),flyby breath weapons (never gets close enough for you to attack but your ac means nothing to breath weapons).

If your significantly more powerful that the party average one of two things are going to happen. One, the encounters will be a walkover making the game boring to the rest of the party as they stand back in each battle to watch you take everything out and/or are relegated to being your retainers. Or two the DM amps up the encounters to make it a challange and it results in everyone else getting killed or once again depending on you to fight the battles for them.

Wasn't there a recent thread about animated tower shield being incredibly broken?

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Originally posted by nycfarmkid
The best thing to keep in mind when making specilized characters as a player and a DM is that the bad guys can do about everyhting the PC's can. Its the great equalizer. Also why i like to design my own villians.

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Originally posted by nycfarmkid

Ray of enfeeblement can really drop your str a lot. 1d6 +1 per lvl. I think it caps at 10 so you could get a loss of 16 str. That does hurt.

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Originally posted by The SRD
Armor or a shield with a special ability must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus.

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Originally posted by nycfarmkid

Ray of enfeeblement can really drop your str a lot. 1d6 +1 per lvl. I think it caps at 10 so you could get a loss of 16 str. That does hurt.

The best thing to keep in mind when making specilized characters as a player and a DM is that the bad guys can do about everyhting the PC's can. Its the great equalizer. Also why i like to design my own villians.

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Originally posted by Korhal_IV

AARRGH! I had a huge long post typed out, but the computer ate it. Oh well.

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Originally posted by nycfarmkid

Ray of enfeeblement can really drop your str a lot. 1d6 +1 per lvl. I think it caps at 10 so you could get a loss of 16 str. That does hurt.

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Caps at d6+5, meaning that, with all the junk he's carrying, there's a 33% chance he winds up flat on his back due to a 1st level spell. Of course, Grease would also be a 1st level spell that could completely incapacitate him (with a -14, what do you need to roll on a d20 to make a DC 10 Balance check? Oh, right...).

Several points:

1) This character has 75,180 gp worth of stuff. It should be 81,180 gp worth of stuff, because you can't have "ghost touch full plate", it must be +1 ghost touch full plate, as such:

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Originally posted by The SRD
Armor or a shield with a special ability must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus.

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2) Most CR 9s are not as weak as the posters on this thread think. A Greater Air Elemental, a Cryohydra, a Frost Giant - all of these could hand this character his butt on a platter, either through regular attacks, through grappling, or simply through outlasting him. The only CR 9s he *could* handle on his own are the ones that need defensive spells to aid them, such as night hags, bone devils, etc. If he catches one of these offguard, he might conceivably solo it - but he's got just one swing, and with -14 to his Move Silently, on open terrain (i.e., outdoors, anywhere outdoors), a creature is automatically aware of him when he is 140 feet away! (DC 0 Listen check - if you actually rolled for monsters, as DMs should in outdoors encounters, most creatures would be aware of him many hundreds of feet away!) For each intervening door, the range drops by 50 feet (+5 DC), so that if there's "only" 2 doors in the way, he can be heard 40 feet away. He's also only got a +1 initiative, so there's a good chance even a surprised creature ("Behold! The Demon of Deafness!")can get away. A move speed of 20 is also crippling against many of the more mobile CR 9s (I refer you to the FOUR CR 9 dragons available).

3) Spirited Charge makes a mount so, so much more valuable than Charging Smite. A halfling on pony/dogback, assuming the following (Str 18 (16 base, -2 racial, +2 level-ups, +2 item), Cha 16 (14 base, +2 item), +2 lance, Power Attack for -2, Smite), can deal 3d6+51 points of damage. Given that he's got a +20 to hit after Power Attack, he can easily Power Attack for more, bumping him to anywhere from +56 to +67 (-4 and -7, total). This is operating without splatbooks, with LESS than normal wealth, and with about three minutes' thought. The halfling also has excessively better maneuverability than the human paladin in full plate, since even on dogback he has 40 ft. of movement instead of 20 ft., allowing him to get his charge off from much farther away.

Trust me, charging paladins have been well considered in balancing mechanics. They are nothing special.

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Originally posted by Korhal_IV

AARRGH! I had a huge long post typed out, but the computer ate it. Oh well.

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Originally posted by nycfarmkid

Ray of enfeeblement can really drop your str a lot. 1d6 +1 per lvl. I think it caps at 10 so you could get a loss of 16 str. That does hurt.

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Caps at d6+5, meaning that, with all the junk he's carrying, there's a 33% chance he winds up flat on his back due to a 1st level spell. Of course, Grease would also be a 1st level spell that could completely incapacitate him (with a -14, what do you need to roll on a d20 to make a DC 10 Balance check? Oh, right...).

Several points:

1) This character has 75,180 gp worth of stuff. It should be 81,180 gp worth of stuff, because you can't have "ghost touch full plate", it must be +1 ghost touch full plate, as such:

quote:

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Originally posted by The SRD
Armor or a shield with a special ability must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus.

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2) Most CR 9s are not as weak as the posters on this thread think. A Greater Air Elemental, a Cryohydra, a Frost Giant - all of these could hand this character his butt on a platter, either through regular attacks, through grappling, or simply through outlasting him. The only CR 9s he *could* handle on his own are the ones that need defensive spells to aid them, such as night hags, bone devils, etc. If he catches one of these offguard, he might conceivably solo it - but he's got just one swing, and with -14 to his Move Silently, on open terrain (i.e., outdoors, anywhere outdoors), a creature is automatically aware of him when he is 140 feet away! (DC 0 Listen check - if you actually rolled for monsters, as DMs should in outdoors encounters, most creatures would be aware of him many hundreds of feet away!) For each intervening door, the range drops by 50 feet (+5 DC), so that if there's "only" 2 doors in the way, he can be heard 40 feet away. He's also only got a +1 initiative, so there's a good chance even a surprised creature ("Behold! The Demon of Deafness!")can get away. A move speed of 20 is also crippling against many of the more mobile CR 9s (I refer you to the FOUR CR 9 dragons available).

3) Spirited Charge makes a mount so, so much more valuable than Charging Smite. A halfling on pony/dogback, assuming the following (Str 18 (16 base, -2 racial, +2 level-ups, +2 item), Cha 16 (14 base, +2 item), +2 lance, Power Attack for -2, Smite), can deal 3d6+51 points of damage. Given that he's got a +20 to hit after Power Attack, he can easily Power Attack for more, bumping him to anywhere from +56 to +67 (-4 and -7, total). This is operating without splatbooks, with LESS than normal wealth, and with about three minutes' thought. The halfling also has excessively better maneuverability than the human paladin in full plate, since even on dogback he has 40 ft. of movement instead of 20 ft., allowing him to get his charge off from much farther away.

Trust me, charging paladins have been well considered in balancing mechanics. They are nothing special.

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Originally posted by Malin Lug

All in all... a one hit wonder. You should be able to drop most CR9 creatures with a single hit, but there are alot of weaknesses on such a min/max build. With an effective 22 Chr, your saves should all be really good, but like maijstral said, anything that has a ranged touch attack against you with no save, is going to hurt. You have absolutely nothing against any flying creatures. Overspecialization can really come back and bite you. Fighting against a bunch of Slaads, who are CN could really put a world of hurt on you.

For ranged stuff, i dont know if i said it, I have a +4 str +1 longbow, wont drop a God, but it will prevent me from being worthless.

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Originally posted by nycfarmkid

Ray of enfeeblement can really drop your str a lot. 1d6 +1 per lvl. I think it caps at 10 so you could get a loss of 16 str. That does hurt.

The best thing to keep in mind when making specilized characters as a player and a DM is that the bad guys can do about everyhting the PC's can. Its the great equalizer. Also why i like to design my own villians.

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Originally posted by Chris Orlando
To reply to your #1 I am almost postive if you look in the DMG you can get any mod with also having a +1, so I wouldn't need +4 armor to have +1 ghost touch, i could just get Ghost touch.

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Originally posted by dariustad



No, Khorval is entirely correct.

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Originally posted by Chris Orlando
#3 I disagree, Mounts are sweet, but how often can you take them in a dungeon with a 10 foot clear height???? i doubt you could bring them. How often could you rid a horse up stairs to the top level of some place to use that horse.... I really think Charging smite is much better in the over all scheme of things. I know if i were a DM I wouldn't put very many situations where a Pally could utilize his mount due to how effective it could be.... And plz add the damage for me for how you get such a large bonus (is it the double damage on a lance while charging??? if thats the case then i believe it)

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Originally posted by Korhal_IV

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Originally posted by dariustad



No, Khorval is entirely correct.

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822 posts and I'm still "Khorval"? [:p]

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Originally posted by dariustad

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Originally posted by Chris Orlando
To reply to your #1 I am almost postive if you look in the DMG you can get any mod with also having a +1, so I wouldn't need +4 armor to have +1 ghost touch, i could just get Ghost touch.

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No, Khorval is entirely correct. You MUST have the +1 enhancement bonus (or higher, but the +1 is mandatory). Not an equivalent. If you brought that item into my game, I would rule it illegal, because it is. So would every DM I know.

Look in the Monster Manual 3.5, page 40. The Balor is listed as having a "+1 vorpal greatsword" and a "+1 flaming whip."

The +1 is mandatory. It must be a "+1 enhancement." It cannot be a +1 equivalent.

Your armor must be "+1 ghost touch armor," not just "ghost touch armor."

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Originally posted by dj-chuckles

Easy, Flesh to Stone on the horse.

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Originally posted by dariustad

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Originally posted by Chris Orlando
To reply to your #1 I am almost postive if you look in the DMG you can get any mod with also having a +1, so I wouldn't need +4 armor to have +1 ghost touch, i could just get Ghost touch.

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No, Khorval is entirely correct. You MUST have the +1 enhancement bonus (or higher, but the +1 is mandatory). Not an equivalent. If you brought that item into my game, I would rule it illegal, because it is. So would every DM I know.

Look in the Monster Manual 3.5, page 40. The Balor is listed as having a "+1 vorpal greatsword" and a "+1 flaming whip."

The +1 is mandatory. It must be a "+1 enhancement." It cannot be a +1 equivalent.

Your armor must be "+1 ghost touch armor," not just "ghost touch armor."

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Originally posted by orcdoubleax

if he actually wants to be dangerous with his charge, not that I encourage muchkins at any time. A simple potion of fly would make a big difference in his ablity to charge effectively.

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Originally posted by Chris Orlando

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Originally posted by orcdoubleax

if he actually wants to be dangerous with his charge, not that I encourage muchkins at any time. A simple potion of fly would make a big difference in his ablity to charge effectively.

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A simple delay for my wizard to dispell would nuetralize that fly spell.

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Originally posted by Chris Orlando

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Originally posted by dariustad

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Originally posted by Chris Orlando
To reply to your #1 I am almost postive if you look in the DMG you can get any mod with also having a +1, so I wouldn't need +4 armor to have +1 ghost touch, i could just get Ghost touch.

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No, Khorval is entirely correct. You MUST have the +1 enhancement bonus (or higher, but the +1 is mandatory). Not an equivalent. If you brought that item into my game, I would rule it illegal, because it is. So would every DM I know.

Look in the Monster Manual 3.5, page 40. The Balor is listed as having a "+1 vorpal greatsword" and a "+1 flaming whip."

The +1 is mandatory. It must be a "+1 enhancement." It cannot be a +1 equivalent.

Your armor must be "+1 ghost touch armor," not just "ghost touch armor."

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In addition to an enhancement bonus, armor may have special abilities. Special abilities usually count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of an item, but do not improve AC. A suit of armor cannot have an effective bonus (enhancement plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +10. A suit of armor with a special ability must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus. , "D20.org"
I think this could be open to inturpritation, because if you think about it, it doesn't say a suit of armor with a special ability must have in additional +1 enhancement bonus. It just says any that any special ability must have a +1 bonus. I know they probelly mean that the armor must have a Base +1 enchantment to start before a special property, but i dont think it was clearly stated enough... Same thing was said for weapons, and I think it would be a DM's disgression thing, cuz i know when i was DM, I allowed people to had just special abilities because most of them are pritty balanced with exception to vitious at later levels.

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Originally posted by orcdoubleax

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Originally posted by Chris Orlando

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Originally posted by orcdoubleax

if he actually wants to be dangerous with his charge, not that I encourage muchkins at any time. A simple potion of fly would make a big difference in his ablity to charge effectively.

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A simple delay for my wizard to dispell would nuetralize that fly spell.

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??????? I was talking about you taking a potion of fly. Why would your own wizard dispell that?

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