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wildmage
Sneak
123 Posts
    
 | | 07/22/2006 12:10 PM |
| There is a really interesting article on wizards.com about reworking the Ogre Mage:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20060721a
What do you think?
Overall I like this CR 5 version a lot- Mr. Mearls did a good job in defining a focus for the creature and molding it to fit that focus and give it some distinctive flair. The question is, have you used the Ogre Mage before, what role did it play, and would the new incarnation fit your idea of what the Ogre Mage should do?
Personally I think tweaking the invisibility uses and giving it sneak attack was a definite improvement that makes a lot of sense and gives the Ogre Mage a reason to enter combat in the first place. The point that the Ogre Mage feels like it should be a mastermind with lots of minions around also makes sense, but I think those minions could just as easily be Goblinoids, Orcs, Gnolls, Lizardfolk, Hill Giants, etc. as necessarily needing to be other Ogres. I think that a new Ogre Mage should still have flexibility in its spell-like abilities and skills (including some non-combat ones perhaps) in addition to refocusing its reasons for entering melee combat. I like Mr. Mearls' point of making the the Ogre Mage all about intimidation. I think it should keep either 1/day or 3/day Charm Person and get 1/day Major Image as well (or something similar). Then by adding a few more hit dice and perhaps giving it another attack spell (fireball?) or lightning bolt at 3/day rather than 1/day (and kicking the caster level back up) you could keep the CR at 8. This base for an Ogre Mage could then have some levels of Sorcerer, Rogue, Fighter, etc. piled on if you wanted to set a little higher CR and emphasize either the spell, subterfuge (and sneak attack), or fighting capabilities of the Ogre Mage.
What do you think? | |
Champion of the Bone Naga
(There's just so much roleplaying to be done with a large skeletal snake!) | |
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Gristlemane
Sergeant
623 Posts
| | 07/22/2006 12:31 PM |
| I've never liked it as a high CR monster because at level 7 you have to throw 4 ogres at the party to provide a challenge, and each of them should be reduced to 4-5 hitpoints after being fireballed. That's one arrow each. It's thus very easy for the party to kill two of the four ogres during the surprise round, since they have terrible Initiative.
Reducing the Ogre Mage to a level 5 challenge makes it much easier for you to work the ogre mage into a short adventure involving other ogres. | |
It's deja vu all over again. | |
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Username
Warlord
5692 Posts
| | 07/22/2006 1:28 PM |
| What are the stats/CR to the Entropic Ogre Mage from the Planar Handbook (this is a COOL looking guy):
[img]http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/planar_gallery/82550.jpg[/img] | |
Originally posted by Schooly_D
Username - he deals in minis
Champion of Lhesh Haruuc Shaarat'kor | |
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IHawk
Underboss
1054 Posts
Lisle, Illinois
| | 07/22/2006 3:10 PM |
| wooow, that planar ogre mage is fantastic.
I have toyed with the ogre mage in the past...it always amounted
to adding hit points and boosting the attack bonus. even invis
the ogre mage could barely hit flat footed fighters with +9.
The new focused ogre mage will see more play in my campaign. Heck
he was one of my favorite concept creatures before, and i like the
tougher version a bit more now.
mark - ihawk | |
mark - Champion of the Goblin Worg Riders | anteblue_at_yahoo_dot_com
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Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 07/22/2006 3:26 PM |
| Interesting article indeed.
I've used the ogre mage before as a DM in its original version. It's main problem lies in his low HP vs melee combat combination. Normally, after having blasted his cone of cold, it's only alternative lies in melee, in which case it doesn't last 2 rounds. Unless he's lucky enough initiative-wise to get away with gazeous form, he'll die in short order.
In this respect, i think that lowering its CR and augmenting his HD was a good idea. The rest is a question of choice: sneaky vs magic-using vs melee-oriented. Any of the three would have done the job in my opinion. Sneaky sounds as good as any, although one might argue that a creature named "ogre mage" should be more oriented on magic that anything else. Now, he's kind of an "ogre rogue mage".
Overall, i like the newly proposed ogre-mage nonetheless.
Sky | |
The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
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wildmage
Sneak
123 Posts
| | 07/22/2006 6:25 PM |
| What about either giving the Ogre Mage the Use Magic Device skill, or else considering it to be the equivalent of a caster level 6 (new Ogre Mage by Mearls) or caster level 9 (old Ogre Mage) wizard for purposes of using activated magic items such as wands, rods, and staves? Am I missing something and this would already work, or do the current Ogre Mage versions require Use Magic Device or similar in order to activate a wand?
What I'm thinking is to just run with the CR 5 version (add class levels if you wish to boost the challenge rating) and maybe have lightning bolt at 3/day, then give the Ogre Mage the Use Magic Device skill and equip the average Ogre Mage with a wand of Magic Missles, Scorching Ray, Fireball, or similar depening on my needs as a DM for the encounter. That gives the Ogre Mage ranged attack options, because why would it willingly enter an encounter if it could only shoot off a quick spell-like ability and then either had to wade into melee or run away (remember, these guys are supposed to be intelligent)? | |
Champion of the Bone Naga
(There's just so much roleplaying to be done with a large skeletal snake!) | |
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glauron
Underboss
1379 Posts
Sydney, Australia
| | 07/24/2006 1:59 AM |
| | I've been eyeing off these reworked monsters, and the ogre mage he proposes is a much better encounter monster, but as a long-term villain he now lacks some important survivability tools - invisibility at will, nerfed to 3/day, and regeneration nerfed to fast healing. | |
I have always been here. | |
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Wayne
Underboss
1371 Posts
| | 07/24/2006 4:42 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by glauron
he now lacks some important survivability tools - invisibility at will, nerfed to 3/day, and regeneration nerfed to fast healing.
Fast healing is actually more powerful than regeneration, especially given that fire and acid no longer prevent it. (Man, will that mess up some players, the metagamin' bastards.)
As far as the invisibility thing goes, a long-term villain should get plenty of mileage out of three uses per day.
Personally, I think Mike Mearls is two-for-two in the "reworked monsters" department, though the rust monster was weakened maybe a hair too much. | |
Jeff "Wayne Laredo" Wilder | Email | Have/Want List | Trade Policies | Are You an Ethical Trader?
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