Wolfgang
Underboss
2347 Posts
    
Milton, Ontario Canada
 | | 08/01/2006 8:55 AM |
| | I was wondering what everybody thought would be the perfect party composition if you had 5 PC'S? | |
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Chozyn
Warrior
213 Posts
| | 08/01/2006 9:10 AM |
| 1 Fighter Type (RAnger, Knight, Fighter, Barbarian etc.)
1 Cleric/Druid
1 Rouge Type
1 Wizard/Sorcerer
1 Unique - Anything that isn't listed above. | |
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Wayne
Underboss
1371 Posts
| | 08/01/2006 9:16 AM |
| By "perfect," you mean what? Best able to overcome challenges? Most fun?
The bard is often referred to as the best possible "fifth adventurer," because the class can be backup for so many roles. It also has broad social skills that most of the four basic roles can't come anywhere close to matching. So my vote would be:
One, a frontline warrior (fighter, paladin, or barbarian); two, a support specialist (cleric is hands down the best at this); an arcane caster (wizard is best, but a sorcerer with Scribe Scroll works); an expert and scout (rogue or ranger); and a face (bard).
If you're talking about sheer Monster Beatdown, the preference swings from wizard to sorcerer, and replace the bard with another cleric.
If you're talking about fun, and you've got an experienced -- maybe even jaded -- group, you can mix and match some of the newer 20-level classes, from the Complete Foo series. The Player's Handbook II has good guidelines for how to mix such a group to still cover the bases for typical adventures. | |
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Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 08/01/2006 11:34 AM |
| I don't think there's such a thing as a perfect party, but here's my take on a 5-person party composition that i'd like to have, using core classes only:
- Human Paladin (This guy is for melee and mounted combat. The pally is not necessarily the best melee fighter, but i like paladins :) )
- Dwarf Cleric
- Halfling Wizard (i like evoquers best, nothing like a straightforward fireball :) )
- Human Figher-cleric (going half and half for minor healing and buff support and good melee support)
- Elf Ranger-Rogue (going mainly rogue with 2-4 levels of ranger over time to get weapon proficiency, fav. enemy, Track and Rapid Shot without losing significant skill points while providing slightly better BAB than a pure rogue)
Sky
(edite to add races) | |
The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
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Elucidus
Skirmisher
30 Posts
| | 08/01/2006 12:19 PM |
| Currently I am in a game with:
Fighter (Polearm)
Druid (Me)
Monk
Monk/Cleric
The magic fighter class in PHBII (I don't recall the name something with blade in it)
Warlock
And a halfling wizard who focuses on support
This doesn't seem to fit to me. Though a half cleric and a druid with spontaneous healing seems to work pretty well together. This is my first druid in a long time and it seems they are quite versitile.
In our group there is often a missing person or two and the druid seems ot be able to make up for it somewhat.
Anyway I would say:
Fighter
Ranger/Rogue
Cleric (maybe multiclass, though pure cleric is my favorite class)
Sorcer/Wizard
Druid/Bard (I prefer the druid, but I just don't like bards)
THis is a quite capable party, it may not kill a lot of shit, but it will survive a lot of shit. | |
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Lab Monkey
Commander
4131 Posts
| | 08/01/2006 12:36 PM |
| Here's my preferance:
-Fighter (Tank / Melee) (In the appropriate campaign, a Half-orc Dragonborn of Bahamut is a powerful choice) (Barbarian or Paladin are decent substitutes)
-Elven Scout (Skills, Traps, Wilderness abilities, Archery)
-Human Cleric (secondary fighter, buffer, healer)
-Arcane Blaster (Wizard, War Wizard, or Sorcerer all work)
An additional caster. Beguiler is my top choice, it's nice for social skills plus enchantments/illusions and as a back up rogue-type. Bard works well in this reguard also. Druid is a nice choice for additional blasting + divine power (especially in a party missing a ranger or scout).
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Count Dooku
Commander
4636 Posts
New York
| | 08/01/2006 1:04 PM |
| There really is no "Perfect Party"
For most well rounded and able to overcome most challenges I would personally say:
Fighter
Rogue
Wizard
Cleric
Bard
But there is no right answer. | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
9970 Posts
United States
| | 08/02/2006 11:46 AM |
| It so depends upon what they're facing. I'm partial to a band of four rogues and a wizard who leads them; but then that would fail miserably in certain adventures.
Dave | |
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chrisman321
Warrior
308 Posts
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chrisman321
Warrior
308 Posts
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Malin Lug
Sergeant
742 Posts
| | 08/02/2006 12:38 PM |
| The first four are pretty much a given.
Fighter type
Offensive spell caster
Defensive / buffing and healing caster
Rogue type
The fifth wheel can be almost anything but I will go against the trend that everyone else is saying and say another front line fighter or a fighter / cleric. A second person who can "hold the line" is a great thing and you have a back up healer.
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yack
Commander
3129 Posts
Ottawa, Canada
| | 08/02/2006 2:46 PM |
| what about !!
Matthew Fox (Charlie)
Scott Wolf (Bailey)
Neve Campbell(Julia)
Lacey Chabert(Claudia)
and little baby Owen. [:p] | |
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Low Key
Underboss
1231 Posts
| | 08/02/2006 5:08 PM |
| I'm running a party of 5, that consists of:
Cleric
Rogue/Shadowdancer
Rogue/Assasin
Monk
Ranger/Sorcerer/Arcane Archer
They do so-and-so. [:p] | |
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Gast
Skirmisher
25 Posts
| | 08/03/2006 5:06 AM |
| Human Fighter
Elf Ranger
Dwarf Cleric
Halfling Rogue/Scout
Human Wizard/Necromancer
It's a party that i play now (I'm the DM) and it's very strong. The fighter is a tank one with great AC and the ranger with great range attacks of course (many shots etc). Great fun with Necromancer. You can replace the fighter or ranger with a paladin. | |
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Zardnaar
Sergeant
522 Posts
| | 08/03/2006 8:23 AM |
| Depends on the level.
At level 1-5.
Fighter/Barbarian
Paladin
Cleric
Druid
Rogue
Level 6-14
Paladin
Ranger
Cleric
Druid
Rogue
At level 15-20
Wizard
Cleric
Druid
Cleric (different god/domains)
Bard
I find an Arcane caster often optional. | |
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CarrionCrawler
Underboss
1760 Posts
| | 08/03/2006 7:39 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by yack
Matthew Fox (Charlie)
Scott Wolf (Bailey)
What are the stats for the Scott Wolf and the lost Matthew Fox? | |
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MechaKingGhidra
Sergeant
632 Posts
| | 08/03/2006 8:40 PM |
| When it comes down to many instances, in order to have fun, many do not like to be the support characters and instead want to always be in the action so therefore some parties are left without extremely important roles that no one wants to fill. In the group I played with many times, no one wanted to be a cleric. Oddly enough, this can be quite common as the only way to become actively involved usually is by fighting the undead but undead-based campaigns can become quite dull and tedious after a while, much of the time because they become too easy, even from the cleric's viewpoint. Paladins can be a great alternative but can extremely limit roleplaying if you are not completely dedicated to the role of one. There's always going to be a downside but at least in most cases, the role a person plays can be open to compromise and this usually sets a balanced pace to the game.
For example, I like to play a sorcerer but want to get in on the fights and whatnot, even if I know I cannot efficiently do so. Nevertheless, I choose my spell list which is nearly always about filled with 70% to 80% defense-orientated spells, the rest being support, odd uses(not necessarily used in combat or can make an interesting result no one really anticipated, sometimes the DM included) and/or a few offense spells to round out the selection. After buffing myself, I enter melee with a scythe and hope for a critical or two. I always try to max out on Charisma and Dexterity and then pay attention to my Strength and then the most obvious ones afterwards unless my Constitution is need of *EXTREME* help(7 or lower). In conclusion, I have then made what I believe to be a unique character which can deal with slightly more circumstances than a "purist" could and sate my preferences of using magic whenever I want to while not being helpless in melee combat. A fair use of compromise has been established.
Of course, some classes make it a bit more difficult to do things like this to achieve a result of comparable status. What can you do with Rangers and Druids if most of the campaign is based within cities and the like? How is a monk supposed to fight effectively against an opponent they cannot touch, whether the opponent flies, is a ghost or something, secretes acid that prevents unarmed assault with deadly consequences if ignored, or something else makes the situation completely one-sided against said monk? Pretty much all of the other classic core classes are generalists when you put everything altogether but not everyone wants to play the barbarian, rogue, fighter, etc. The only advice that is truly indispensable is to be creative but don't go overboard as it can lead to eventual confusion. | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 08/03/2006 10:26 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by MechaKingGhidra
Of course, some classes make it a bit more difficult to do things like this to achieve a result of comparable status. What can you do with Rangers and Druids if most of the campaign is based within cities and the like? How is a monk supposed to fight effectively against an opponent they cannot touch, whether the opponent flies, is a ghost or something, secretes acid that prevents unarmed assault with deadly consequences if ignored, or something else makes the situation completely one-sided against said monk?
The PHB II solves a lot of these poblems with new feats and PrC, like Urban Soul. I find it really funny since in another game I aksed my GM if I could change the range abilities so they work in cties instead of the country. Another player said when he heard the request, "So you can live off the streets and find food in a city? That makes you a bum." And so in our group Urban Soul has been renamed, Bum. | |
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Korhal_IV
Sergeant
852 Posts
| | 08/04/2006 5:02 PM |
| | Five clerics, all of different religions. If any are of the same religion, then they all belong to different sects. The bickering, and monster-slaying, should be fast and furious. [:D] | |
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Wolfgang
Underboss
2347 Posts
Milton, Ontario Canada
| | 08/05/2006 10:05 AM |
| Thanks for all the responses but this is the party i thought of
Knight
Ranger/Sorcerer
Paladin/Cleric
Wizard
Ranger/Thief
Any comments? | |
Proud member since March 26 2005
Champion of the SIVAK DRACONIAN
Joke champion of the epic sage!
Demonweb called shot - Sivak Draconian
Feywild called shot - Sivak Draconian
Number of sets with Sivak Draconian as my called shot - 9
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jacksonm
Warlord
5560 Posts
River City
| | 08/05/2006 11:11 AM |
| Five actually fits my general rule of a party should consist of 40% Warrior types, 20% Priest types, 20% Rogue types, and 20% Wizard types.
The perfect 5 of course would depend on the setting and style of the camapign but my classic group might look something like this...
Dwarven Fighter
Human Ranger
Human Cleric
Halfling Rogue
Elven Wizard
That covers the bases of most of the key skills, abilities and spells and adventuring party needs to have.
On the other hand in a bit I'll be joining a new campaign where the 5 PC mix will look like this.
Human Wizard (myself)
Neanderthal Barbarian
Dwarven Rogue
Aasimar Healer
Human Cleric
Should be an interesting group. [:D] | | | |
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yack
Commander
3129 Posts
Ottawa, Canada
| | 08/05/2006 12:03 PM |
| my group is small(I'm the DM)
we have a
1 male dwarf fighter
1 female human paladin
1 female halfling rogue
1 male human cleric
1 female wizard elf
They are now around level 6-7
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stonefro2000
Sergeant
465 Posts
| | 08/05/2006 8:54 PM |
| Fighter
Rogue
Wizard
Cleric
is the true incoic party tossing in the bard just makes every one better at what they do.
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DanChops
Sneak
84 Posts
Muscat, Oman
| | 08/06/2006 10:23 PM |
| | I'm partial to the Marshal instead of the Bard as the fifth wheel/party face type. Sure, he doesn't get spells, but some of those auras can be quite potent. For instance, the Minor Aura that boosts flanking damage can add some serious hurt to the baddies, especially at lower levels. Also, the Major Aura that makes all your allies faster can be quite nice, particularly if you have speed 30' but a significant portion of the rest of the party only has speed 20'. | |
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zenthrus
Commander
4601 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 08/07/2006 12:15 AM |
| Optimal 5-player party IMO:
#1) Human Wizard (Conjuration specialist) 5/Duskblade 1/Eldritch Knight 10/Archmage 4
#2) Human Cleric 5/Church Inquisitor 10/Hierophant 5
#3) Kenku Barbarian 2/Fighter 1/Rogue 7/Highland Stalker 5/Nightsong Enforcer 5
#4) Half-Human/Half-Gold Dragon Paladin 4/Fighter 4/Kensai 9 (recommend using a Large Greatsword via Monkey Grip)
#5) Poison Dusk Lizardfolk Ranger 9/Bard 5/Fouchalt Lyricist 5 (Arrow Mind + Ranged Combat Style)
OR
#5) Githzerai Favored Soul 2/Sorcerer 3/Monk 13
This assumes that you're using all of the 3.5 splatbooks + PH2. This also assumes that you don't mind doing a bit o' min/maxing. Last assumption is that your DM doesn't mind allowing up to a +3 level adjustment.
Basically, this includes 1 Arcane Specialist, 1 Divine Specialist, 1 Skill Specialist (that can handle being engaged in combat), 1 Combat Specialist, and one beefy support character (Inspire Heroics is nutty ; the Gith Monk should end up with a disgustingly high AC). | |
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Chris Orlando
Warrior
187 Posts
| | 08/17/2006 10:21 AM |
| | I really think it depends on the type of DM. If the DM will be throwing a lot of mindless creatures the wizard may not be necessary, while if he/she is gona be throwing very intellegant creatures you better have a cleric and wizard to be able to deal with a variety of situations. | |
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Monsoon28
Underboss
2290 Posts
Toronto
| | 08/17/2006 1:41 PM |
| Don't know if there is such a thing as the 'perfect' group and it does depend at what level you work from.
I'd go with:
Fighter - Dwarf/Human
Wizard - I like Human here as well, but other races are mostly fine. Another option if you use it, would be to use a Psion. I have little experience with 3rd Ed psionics however so I can't really back this recommendation.
Druid - With Spontaneous Healing, while he does suffer a disadvantage the first few levels soon enough you can forget them and the Druid is truely a powerhouse.
Lock-picker/Trap Disabler - Usually this means a rogue, but there are plenty of classes that can fill this role. (remember Scout gets disable device from errata and a wizard with Knock makes up for the scouts lack of the open lock skill.)
Your fifth class is probably the trickiest, If you're lacking a 'face' character then the Bard is a great 5th character. Need more Muscle? Grab another Melee type. A Cleric to compliment the Druid is also a good choice. (though I've taken a liking to the optional rule in Complete Divine for Turning Undead, which compliments the work of your team mates in taking down undead.)
Finally how about a mixed class type such as the Psy-Warrior or Incarnate? Like the Bard they fill more then one role, but are unlikely to excel in any one field.
Personally keep the group well rounded, unless you happen to know you're only going to be fighting a select group of mobs. Otherwise rely on magic to much and wipeout on a Iron-Golem. Too much muscle and the Lich may be eating you for breakfast.
Well there's my opinion on the matter, YMMV. | |
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Ethandrul
Warrior
300 Posts
| | 08/17/2006 2:08 PM |
| Half orc fighter (pole arm or chain)
whirlwind attack feat chain
Human mage/cleric ( mystic thurge) dual wand wielder
Elf Druid
Elven Mage/Scout/arcane archer
Pun-Pun....JK
Halfling Spellthief/arcane trickster
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Sulaco
Underboss
1605 Posts
| | 08/17/2006 2:31 PM |
| 1) Fighter
2) Fighter, Barbarian, Paladin, or Ranger
3) Rogue
4) Wizard or Sorcerer
5) Cleric
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 08/17/2006 2:38 PM |
| I think a 2nd fighter-type is probably more useful than a bard, assuming the first 4 slots in the group cleave to the iconic class roles. The thing about the bard is that it is a lot more useful in groups that are heavy on weapon users rather than spellcasters. I think it is actually a much better 6th character than 5th, having played one for a while now. My general rule of thumb would be something like 2 fighter types, 1 cleric type, 1 rogue type (with disable device - this could mean rogue, scout, spellthief, etc.), 1 wizard type. | |
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Dordledum
Commander
3100 Posts
Netherlands
| | 08/20/2006 8:19 AM |
| Ideal party of 5 for me would be: 1. fighter-type
2. cleric-type
3. rogue-type
4. sorcerer/wizard-type
5. anything is ok As it stands I am DM-ing this 9th level party of 5: 1. Fighter3/Wizard6
2. Fighter1/Cleric of Lathander8
3. Rogue3/Wizard5/Arcane Trickster1
4. Monk of Hoar9
5. Fighter2/Wizard5/Bladesinger2 Something else right? Kind of missing a full frontline fighter. D. | |
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Zenako
Commander
3445 Posts
| | 08/22/2006 11:26 AM |
| It REALLY will depend on the type of campaign that the DM will be running and the inclinations of the players. No one wants to be stuck playing an ineffective character for long, so a master of city politics will get bored whacking on orcs session after session, while the barbarian will become a disruptive force if made to sit through endless political negotiations. Game style comes first. You can also be creative as mentioned. I have recently been playing a high dex Cleric of Artemis who is quite proficent with a bow and able to contribute (Precise shot helps) to battles all over the map as needed and to cast the array of spells as usual. Having average CON and horrible die rolls has kept the hit points well below average which further reinforces the inclination to avoid melee. At low to medium levels, the difference between a fighter and archery and a cleric and archery is almost non-existant. (Once the feats pile up things will change, but then again the number of offensive spells also goes up and should keep me quite busy)... | |
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orcmonk220
Underboss
1608 Posts
| | 08/26/2006 11:23 AM |
| I'm just about to start a campaign up. The party is: Human Swashbuckler
Human Paladin
Gnome Rogue
Human Cleric
Human Wizard I have a fair bit of combat involved here though, and so the Paladin replaces the Fighter role and the Swashbuckler the Ranger-type role. The rest are the same roles. | |
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Sean-Khan
Commander
2696 Posts
| | 08/26/2006 11:47 AM |
| The most efficent as group would be:
1. Barbarian, Human or Half-orc. Human would get Cleave at 1st level but Half-Orc gains efficient Strength -boost. Has lots of hitpoints, damage potential and moves fast if needed.
2. Wizard, Elf or human, or Gnome if illusionist. Specialist, possibly dropping Necromancy (Which means diviner). Wizards can do so much, from focused to mass damage, from obtaining information to buffing fighters or helping through difficult places. Elf would get high Dex and ability to use longbow too. High Int also helps to find secret doors.
3. Rogue. Halfling or Human. Trapfinding and lots of other important abilities. Halflings get lots of boost to their important skills and a lot better attacks if using finesse or throwing things/using slings. Hitting is more important than damage with sneak attacks.
4. Cleric. Human if you want to be good in undead turning, otherwise Dwarf. Important as healer and booster, and can Tank as well.
5. Ranger. Many races would do well here, but Elf's senses and dexterity are a strong factor. Deadly with bow, can scout with rogue if needed and has important skills in nature.
Of races, one dwarf or half-orc would be important for darkvision. An elf with night vision and 4-hour resting time is also very handy. Two elves would mean that all the characters get full rest in 8 hours and someone (who has keen senses) is watching all the time.
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wildmage
Sneak
123 Posts
| | 08/26/2006 1:04 PM |
| [QUOTE]Wolfgang wrote
Thanks for all the responses but this is the party i thought of
Knight
Ranger/Sorcerer
Paladin/Cleric
Wizard
Ranger/Thief
Any comments?[/QUOTE]
If by Ranger/Sorcerer and Ranger/Thief you mean multi-class characters,
it's worth considering exactly why you'd want to mix those
classes. For instance, the sorcerer already has spell progression
issues (getting new spell levels slower than wizards of the same level)
that are mitigated by spontaneous casting and more spells/day. If
you multiclass that sorcerer, then he/she will have even slower spell
progression. Thus if you're goal is a sorcerer that can do a
little melee or archery, your sorcery will develop even more
slowly. However, if the goal is an arcane archer or a ranger that
can cast buff spells etc., then throwing in a few levels of sorcerer
seems fine.
Ranger/Thief is probably a fine way of creating a capable melee
combatant or archer with a huge skill array. However,
"straight-up" rogues have sneak-attack and various feats available that
make them effective in certain melee or ranged attack situations, and
adding ranger levels will cost you a few skill points, higher sneak
attack damage, and advancement to other neat rogue abilities. You
may also end up spending more ranger skill points on rogue skills that
will be "cross-class" when you level up as a ranger. Thus if a
rogue that is effective in combat is your goal, then a "straight-up"
rogue can do just fine. But if you want to have more of a ranger
who can periodically disable traps and add a modest amount of sneak
attack damage to dual-wielded weapons or some such, then multi-class
makes sense.
If you meant "ranger OR sorcerer" and "ranger OR thief (rogue)", then
I'd definitely go with rogue for the last one. The choice between
ranger or sorcerer is a question of play style as an archery ranger or
a sorcerer can play similarly, and a dual-wield ranger is its own bear
but can be roughly as effective as a fighter on the front lines or
would be an excellent melee supporter for the knight or fighter or
paladin. By the same token if you meant "paladin OR cleric"
consider that the paladin is most effective as a frontline fighter with
limited healing/buffing capabilities whereas the cleric is a decent
all-around combatant with healing/buffing/offensive spells and
abilities in spades.
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Champion of the Bone Naga
(There's just so much roleplaying to be done with a large skeletal snake!) | |
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PaSquall
Underboss
1384 Posts
| | 08/28/2006 6:59 AM |
| [QUOTE]Wolfgang wrote
Thanks for all the responses but this is the party i thought of
Knight
Ranger/Sorcerer
Paladin/Cleric
Wizard
Ranger/Thief
Any comments?[/QUOTE] Looks good, except I'd use a cleric/thief instead of the ranger/thief. | |
Vindicated Champion of the PSEUDODRAGON
(Unhappy) vindicated champion of the DRYAD
Against the giants called shot : huge cloud giant female
Demonweb called shot : ghost | |
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Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
8502 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 09/04/2006 2:22 AM |
| Fighter
Barbarian
Cleric
Sorcerer
Rogue
You really want that front line presence. Half of a football team is its linemen; they buy time for the skill guys to do their work. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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