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dmumper
Skirmisher
32 Posts
    
 | | 10/13/2006 9:12 AM |
| WOTC has been doing a great thing by posting the maps for products on their site. Here is what I think would be the single greatest way to expand this feature for all us DM's who have embraced D&D minis:
Maps for each product should be available in a printable format to use with minis.
This could mean many things, especially:
- a file size sufficient to print, or enlarge and print;
- versions of maps without codes and secret info (not required, but it would be great to ask the cartographers for each project to submit a DM and Player version)
I have spoken to numerous DM's who use minis and maps, and all agree that having the actual maps to lay down on the table would be an outstanding addition to the adventures. The number of people who scanned, edited and printed RHOD and other adventure maps should testify to this.
Now, there are other ways we could get the great cartography from these excellent adventures, such as including a CD, or simply including more maps with products like Fantastic Locations. I would be excited about all these, but web downloads seem like the easiest way. | |
Champion of Bigby and all his hands. | |
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Dordledum
Commander
3235 Posts
Netherlands
| | 10/13/2006 9:28 AM |
| would like to see Dm and player handouts of all maps in web enhancements.
thread should go to RPG forum though,
D. | |
Member of the Bearded Devils
Champion of the Huge Spider (WotDQ 46/60), A New Umber Hulk (DoDe 57/60), and the Orog Fighter! | |
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3905 Posts
Adelaide
| | 10/16/2006 7:01 PM |
| | I would love to see maps to scale for modules too. | |
"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: "In the age of the internet attaching a famous name to your personal opinion to give more weight to it is a very valid strategy." - Benjamin Franklin
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 10/16/2006 7:13 PM |
| | That would be cool. A DM I played with found maps and photoshop programs for all the maps for Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil. It was fantastic to see him erase each layer which represented roms and secret areas. Something like that would be cool, but I'm sure there are not enough people at WOTC to do all the great stuff we'd love to see. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
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Sulaco
Underboss
1605 Posts
| | 10/17/2006 7:24 AM |
| | Problem is if they did that then some people would just download the maps and not buy the products. It's still a good idea, though, especially minis-scaled maps. Perhaps they could compromise and do minis-maps for just a few major, key locations of the larger map. | |
Champion of the Gelatinous Cube. Nemesis of Gnomes and Dinosaurs.
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. ~ Terry Pratchett | |
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Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 10/17/2006 11:17 AM |
| I think everyone would like for maps that are playable with minis to be posted on the WotC site. Not just the modules maps, but any generic map!
But then, if they were, would their Fantastic Locations products still be sold? I think they'd lose some business, although it appears to me that Fantastic Locations is not really adapted for RPG but rather for skirmish.
Sky
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The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
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dmumper
Skirmisher
32 Posts
| | 10/19/2006 11:15 AM |
| I don't think having maps available would hurt business. On the contrary, it would be such a great feature more products would sell. These need not be the flowing skirmish-sized maps, and would not draw business away from the FL series.
See RHOD map gallery for example:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ag/20060228a
This was such a WONDERFUL feature for so many of us DM's who ran the module. However, they contain secret doors, text, etc., which is not appropriate for printable maps, so we had to cut, chop, photoshop to get the maps printed. If they could be available for use as easily printed documents - how wonderful would that be? | |
Champion of Bigby and all his hands. | |
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Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 10/19/2006 12:05 PM |
| Just to be clear: I totally agree with you, it would be great! The best would be for example PDFs of the maps that are easy to handle and print.
I have my doubts that they'll do it, but man it would be so cool.
Sky
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The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
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Harneloot
Sergeant
575 Posts
| | 10/19/2006 1:00 PM |
| I still don't undersand why they don't do that.
If they were REALLY smart, they would enploy people to make beautiful Dunjinni style battle maps of their modules and charge $15 to download it.
If that were the case, I'd buy every module they made. | |
"What is to give light must endure burning" -Viktor Frankl
Champion of the Large Myconid
Deacon of the ANY aligned Raistlin. | |
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Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 10/19/2006 1:23 PM |
| I'm sure you meant $1.50 there, didn't you? DIDN'T YOU? Hehe 
$15 is pretty steep for maps only (if i understand your comment correctly), knowing that you've already paid about $20 or $30 for the adventure.
Sky
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The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
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Harneloot
Sergeant
575 Posts
| | 10/19/2006 1:44 PM |
| Nope, wasn't kidding.
I think they could charge $10 - $15 for a full set of printable battle maps for their adventures.
All colorful like and perty as the master cartographers over at the dunjinni forums can make them!
Dang, who wouldn't buy them? | |
"What is to give light must endure burning" -Viktor Frankl
Champion of the Large Myconid
Deacon of the ANY aligned Raistlin. | |
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Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 10/19/2006 2:14 PM |
| I wouldn't. I'll settle with my wet-erase pen. $15 is just too much for an accessory which is not required for the game, when i'm paying for the adventure.
Here's another thing: considering that many color encounter maps are present in the adventure book anyway, i don't think it would be very complicated to export these maps to a printable version with properly scaled 1"x1" squares. So i don't see why that (IMO) simple exportation should cost as much as $15 when you're already buying the adventure that includes the maps.
Sky
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The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
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Harneloot
Sergeant
575 Posts
| | 10/19/2006 5:33 PM |
| | You've obviously never played with well made dunjinni maps...they REALLY look awesome. Totally worth the $15....much more worth it than another silly hard-cover book that does little to nothing for the game excpet make WoTC $$$$ | |
"What is to give light must endure burning" -Viktor Frankl
Champion of the Large Myconid
Deacon of the ANY aligned Raistlin. | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 10/19/2006 8:16 PM |
| That's way too much for a download. I agree why Skyscraper, if you're going to pay for a module, you should get this extra content for either free or for a minimum extra. It still costs me, the consumer, more than just the price of download because now I have to print it out which either costs me resources (ink, paper, etc) which over time can be costly, or pay others to print it for me. It's not cheap and would discourage me.
If you are going to put this online for downloads, it should be like PDFs of harcover books, where you pay a fraction of the costs of the actual books or can download it for free with purchase of the book. This would encourage a lot more than maps that cost equal to the adventure or even more. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
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Harneloot
Sergeant
575 Posts
| | 10/20/2006 10:33 PM |
| | Have either of you seen the outrageous prices Vesuvius was charging for his "cleaned up" RhoD maps??? | |
"What is to give light must endure burning" -Viktor Frankl
Champion of the Large Myconid
Deacon of the ANY aligned Raistlin. | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 10/22/2006 9:20 AM |
| | No. I haven't. Will it disprove my point? And what do you mean by "clean up"? I have avoided spoilers on the product since I might play it in the near future. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
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dmumper
Skirmisher
32 Posts
| | 10/22/2006 6:42 PM |
| Yes, I have to agree, I would definitely be willing to pay $15 to download a full set of maps for an adventure.Â
But more importantly (if you are listening, WOTC): I would be much more likely to buy and use WOTC adventures if maps were readily available for them.
FYI, Vesivus has cleaned up maps in the sense that they remove secret info. so they that players can see the maps printed with no spoilers. | |
Champion of Bigby and all his hands. | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 10/22/2006 11:36 PM |
| That's cool of him to do.
I still can't see spending that much, especially when it makes an adventure, which really only has one use, as expensie as a hardcover book, which I get much more use out of over time. I agree maps that you can download enhance the product and make me more likely to buy, but it should be part of the purchase price. It really doesn't take much more workon their part and would increase sales. I think charging a rediculous price for a product that shouldn't raise the costs that much would hurt them more than help. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
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Harneloot
Sergeant
575 Posts
| | 10/23/2006 1:41 PM |
| ok...I can agree with that.
I just don't think WoTC will be bothered unless there is an extra $$$ to be made off of us.
I'd rather pay extra and get the maps then pay less and get none. | |
"What is to give light must endure burning" -Viktor Frankl
Champion of the Large Myconid
Deacon of the ANY aligned Raistlin. | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 10/23/2006 5:15 PM |
| That's fair enough, too. I wouldn't do it, but if it floats your boat more power to you.
From what I've seen, while money is always a factor of a buiness, it wouldn't surprise me that time and manpower is more of an issue. There are a lot of people in the company who were gamers first and they know how it is for the rest of us. I o agree that anything has to make money i the end, and if it won't draw in more, then it probably won't be done, I just think that end doesn't require us to shell more. It will come from more products being sold. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
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Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 10/24/2006 7:22 PM |
| Posted By Harneloot on 10/19/2006 5:33 PM
You've obviously never played with well made dunjinni maps...they REALLY look awesome. Totally worth the $15....much more worth it than another silly hard-cover book that does little to nothing for the game excpet make WoTC $$$$
I admit that i am not familiar with dunjinni maps, although i've heard of them a few times. As stated above, i could be coerced into spending more for an adventure if there are full color maps either in downloadable or ready-to-use form, but i dont think i'd be ready to spend a lot of money for such maps.
Sky | |
The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
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Harneloot
Sergeant
575 Posts
| | 10/25/2006 3:12 PM |
| Take a look at this:
http://www.dundjinni.com/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=4465&KW=ruined+manor
its a Dungeon Crawl Classic map thats been rendered into a full color Dundjinni Map.
note: the grid is off so you can see the artwork better, but can be added back in easily to facilitate combat movement. | |
"What is to give light must endure burning" -Viktor Frankl
Champion of the Large Myconid
Deacon of the ANY aligned Raistlin. | |
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Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 10/25/2006 6:17 PM |
| Very nice indeed! The detail level is intense. If i had to find some critisism, it would be that there is just too much stuff on that map, it appears a bit overcrowded (for the lay mapper that i am). But i see where you're going.
I presume that it's difficult to ask little money for work that must take so much time to accomplish. The thing is, i'd be happy with color maps with less than half of the detail that's there, as long as the general layout is present and some detail of the surroundings... for 25% of the price that they would ask for that kind of detailed map.
I guess for me it's a bit like accepting plastic minis that have paint jobs that are not as exquisite as those you'll see on some superior hand-painted metal minis, but paying only about $1,50 per mini in the end instead of $10 per mini. I'm quite comfortable with a fair-quality product that is not top notch, knowing that getting from 80% good to 100% good requires thrice the work.
This being said, those maps are really awesome
Sky | |
The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
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Harneloot
Sergeant
575 Posts
| | 10/26/2006 4:48 PM |
| Yeah, even i thought that map was a bit too busy, but it gives a feel for what is possible.
Pretty much ANY kind of battle maps would be bettet than what WoTC is currently providing with their adventures.... | |
"What is to give light must endure burning" -Viktor Frankl
Champion of the Large Myconid
Deacon of the ANY aligned Raistlin. | |
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Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 10/30/2006 1:07 PM |
| You know, i think we're going to see it in the not-so-distant future. Full color battle maps, that is.
I'm thinking: WotC appears to have a turn-around time of about a year or slightly more when they want to modify something. The first color maps came out to my knowledge in the Red Hand of Doom adventure. They've been very popular as far as i can tell. People want some more maps. The recent Knowledge Arcana has color maps for the adventure presented therein. Dungeon tiles are apparently at least moderately popular too.
I think that WotC realizes how much their customers want this kind of product. However, now that they know it, it'll take time still before we actually get there.
Sky
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The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
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