Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2350 Posts
    
Australia
 | | 11/01/2006 8:24 PM |
| I've finally finished up my review of MMIV.
You can find it here!
Cheers! | |
Merric Blackman
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realmaster
Underboss
1915 Posts
Home of the 2002 Winter Olympics
| | 11/01/2006 11:24 PM |
| | link? | |
Thanks, realmaster. Let's split up!!!!!
RIP Gary Gygax 1938-2008
Unhallowed vindicated champion: van richten
Successful trades:72
Trades in progress:0
Have issues with:1 burning_kazuki
Bad trades:0
References: I have given up on creating a link down here so you will have to click the green shield on the left and I hope that it works for you. Sometimes it does not work for me. | |
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Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2350 Posts
Australia
| | 11/02/2006 3:33 PM |
| Sorry about that; got the tag wrong. Is there now. 
Cheers! | |
Merric Blackman
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Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 11/02/2006 7:30 PM |
| Good review, with thanks. I'm still wondering if i'll buy this book, which would be my first rule book over the three core books. It appears like the most interesting of the monster manuals since the first, to me. The spawn of tiamat are the monsters that are making me want to buy the book. By the way, you state that you'd like for the monster lore to be there for all existing creatures, since you liked that addition in MM IV. If you haven't seen this, WotC have been issuing monster lore on their web site for some time in successive articles. These can be found in the "tactics and tips" articles, under the "know your enemy" titles. One such article can be found here http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/tt/20061024a
Sky
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The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10885 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 11/03/2006 4:16 AM |
| MM 4 is indeed an interesting book. I don't own it although I did peruse a copy at my local Borders. I've been following somewhat the online comments on the book.
I like the attempts to help DMs integrate these monsters into their campaigns. That's quite helpful. However, the one thing that seems to be keeping me from buying it is the lack of previous edition monster conversions. Are there any?
This is not a complaint really, I just like conversions. It's a major buying point for me personally. | |
No Hazel, no peace 
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
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Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2350 Posts
Australia
| | 11/03/2006 4:59 AM |
| I don't think there are any conversions in this MM; that's really not a selling point for me, as I can find conversions of old monsters very easily online (and in ToH).
Cheers! | |
Merric Blackman
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Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 11/03/2006 7:13 AM |
| | I'm not sure i understand what you mean by conversions. Are you referring to old 1st and 2nd Ed monsters converted into 3.5? | |
The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10885 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 11/03/2006 7:34 AM |
| Posted By Skyscraper on 11/03/2006 7:13 AM
I'm not sure i understand what you mean by conversions. Are you referring to old 1st and 2nd Ed monsters converted into 3.5?
Yes
I guess I don't have any real passion for a book that's full of entirely new creatures. However, convert for me a bunch of 1st ED and/or Basic/Expert D&D and I'll buy it.
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No Hazel, no peace
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
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Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 11/03/2006 11:33 AM |
| Hmmm. But then... how is it that you *initially* got interested in D&D, since the initial books were not conversions of anything? 
I know what you mean. I asked for and got the MM2 and Fiend Folio for Christmas last year, and traded them for minis since they just didn't do anything for me.
I went to my gaming store during the lunch break today (to get my BW case), and i looked at MM IV again, due to Merric's favorable review.
I like a few things about what's in there after having only sailed through it a couple of times, like the spawn of tiamat, but still i find that many of the monsters would not add anything to my game. Whereas the original monsters from D&D had a mystic feel to them due to their link to real-life legends (werewolf, vampire, giant, dragon, ...) i find that the new monsters are often just "things" thought of by Mr or Mrs XYZ and given weird names. I used to design monsters and call them "glusedron" or "hummork of death" or whatever when i was a kid, it just isn't the same thing. (I'm not trying to say that my 10-year-old design monsters are equivalent to those that are set out in the MMs now, mind you.)
Back to the MM IV, i find that many of the revisited monsters use classes from other non-core rulebooks, and that was the final blow for me that led to the decision not to get this book. Indeed, the drow, lizardfolk, gnolls, ogres and so on that are presented in the MM IV are scouts and this and that class that are non-core classes that i do not use and am not familiar with. I think it's too bad that non-core books are interlinked in that manner.
I did buy Castle Ravenloft though Adventures, i can never get enough of it seems.
Sky | |
The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
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Ridureyu
Underboss
1622 Posts
| | 11/03/2006 11:42 AM |
| | Clockroach. It's all about the Clockroach. | |
Owner of The Original Rust Monsters!
DDM: Harbinger: 76/80 Dragoneye: 60/60 Archfiends: 56/60 GoL: 72/72 Aberrations: 60/60 Deathknell: 60/60 Angelfire: 60/60 Underdark: 60/60 War Drums: 60/60 War of the Dragon Queen: 60/60 Blood War: 60/60, Unhallowed: 60/60 Night Below: 60/60 Desert of Desolation: 60/60 Dungeons of Dread: 60/60 Against the Giants: 50/60
Dreamblade: All | |
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Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 11/03/2006 11:56 AM |
| | That example pretty much hits the nail on the head. | |
The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 11/05/2006 12:43 PM |
| Posted By Ghendar on 11/03/2006 7:34 AM
I guess I don't have any real passion for a book that's full of entirely new creatures. However, convert for me a bunch of 1st ED and/or Basic/Expert D&D and I'll buy it.
You might find this humorous since this was brought up:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0055.html
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Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 11/05/2006 1:16 PM |
| I do like to see prior edition conversions, although they're not a must for me to buy something. Where I disagree with Merric is that the ToH is a good source for them. I'll admit I haven't used anything past their first 3E book, but it was so full of rules errors and bad conversion choices that I don't have any inclination to even give their other books consideration. It was really bad. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
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Harneloot
Sergeant
575 Posts
| | 11/05/2006 5:32 PM |
| | Bring us the Nilbog!!!! | |
"What is to give light must endure burning" -Viktor Frankl
Champion of the Large Myconid
Deacon of the ANY aligned Raistlin. | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10885 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 11/06/2006 4:15 AM |
| Posted By IanB on 11/05/2006 1:16 PM
Where I disagree with Merric is that the ToH is a good source for them. I'll admit I haven't used anything past their first 3E book, but it was so full of rules errors and bad conversion choices that I don't have any inclination to even give their other books consideration. It was really bad.
Well, the Tome of Horrors does contain a lot of old monster conversions. I think they should have play tested the CRs a bit more before publishing the book however. That's my main issue with that book. | |
No Hazel, no peace
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10104 Posts
United States
| | 11/11/2006 4:35 AM |
| I finally got a chance to look at this book. A friend of mine (who is just now getting back into D&D after 20 years) was going on and on about how great it is.
It was okay. I do like that there's a lot of minis crossover--could make use of the minis a little more directly useful.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Malinator
Skirmisher
15 Posts
Utah
| | 11/22/2006 2:54 PM |
| | As a lazy DM I like that they put the class levels on monsters I use all the time. | |
"There are some things a dog just can't explain to a monkey." -Curious George TV show my son watches | |
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yack
Commander
3136 Posts
Ottawa, Canada
| | 11/27/2006 4:24 AM |
| "Back to the MM IV, i find that many of the revisited monsters use classes from other non-core rulebooks, and that was the final blow for me that led to the decision not to get this book. Indeed, the drow, lizardfolk, gnolls, ogres and so on that are presented in the MM IV are scouts and this and that class that are non-core classes that i do not use and am not familiar with. I think it's too bad that non-core books are interlinked in that manner."
I agree with you on this....thats why to me the MMIV is the lesser of the 5 monster books. I don't need clases and such for monsters that have already been released. Too me its that they ran out of ideas...and if thats the case then don't do a book. Yes I do own the book but its for the new monsters and spawns...but I agree also with Ghendar...its the converting of some of the older classic monsters that have been missedin this book. Yes you can get them else where but its not the same as having them in the book.
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Champion of the Peryton
Vindicated Champion : Pit Fiend, Devourer
ATG: Fog Giant
DW: Duergar Priest
RPG Only!!!! The Drumming Drunkn' DM | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 11/27/2006 8:02 AM |
| | I don't think they ran out of ideas, more that they are listening to their public. Many people, both here and on other boards, have mentioned that they don't have a lot of time and want things like this. Sure, in a way you can see this as a money making scheme because they want people to buy it. But this is as much addressing a need that people have vocalized as anything else. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
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Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6567 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 11/27/2006 11:16 AM |
| | I still can't find a link. | |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Ha 80/80---De 60/60---Ar 60/60---GoL 72/72---Ab 60/60---Dk 60/60---Af 60/60---Ud 60/60---WD 60/60---WDQ 60/60---BW 60/60---UH 60/60---NB 60/60---DDe 60/60---SSB 59/60 (Does anyone want to buy my SSB collection?)
Champion of Something, I imagine I will think of something
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
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yack
Commander
3136 Posts
Ottawa, Canada
| | 11/29/2006 5:48 AM |
| and then there was V
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/956817200 | |
Champion of the Peryton
Vindicated Champion : Pit Fiend, Devourer
ATG: Fog Giant
DW: Duergar Priest
RPG Only!!!! The Drumming Drunkn' DM | |
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Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2350 Posts
Australia
| | 11/29/2006 3:47 PM |
| | The text "You can find it here" has the link. | |
Merric Blackman
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wildmage
Sneak
123 Posts
| | 12/02/2006 8:59 AM |
| For some weird reason, Merric's link only works with MS Internet Explorer and not Firefox on my computer. I've stopped using IE for a number of reasons and Firefox is my browser of choice. Oh well.
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Champion of the Bone Naga
(There's just so much roleplaying to be done with a large skeletal snake!) | |
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Sulaco
Underboss
1605 Posts
| | 12/04/2006 7:19 AM |
| Posted By wildmage on 12/02/2006 8:59 AM
For
some weird reason, Merric's link only works with MS Internet Explorer
and not Firefox on my computer. I've stopped using IE for a
number of reasons and Firefox is my browser of choice. Oh well.
Same
here. I get no link at all, also using Firefox. It could be a
MaxMinis-related issue, though, as I have numerous other problems with
the boards while using Firefox.
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Champion of the Gelatinous Cube. Nemesis of Gnomes and Dinosaurs.
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. ~ Terry Pratchett | |
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 12/04/2006 11:33 AM |
| | If you're only using FireFox for tabbed browsing, you might consider trying IE 7, which has that feature.
If you're using it out of some sort of anti-Microsoft protest, enjoy your occasional site incompatibilities. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
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Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2350 Posts
Australia
| | 12/05/2006 5:19 PM |
| | http://enworld.org/reviews.php?do=review&reviewid=3153214 | |
Merric Blackman
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Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6567 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 12/05/2006 5:40 PM |
| Posted By IanB on 12/04/2006 11:33 AM If you're only using FireFox for tabbed browsing, you might consider trying IE 7, which has that feature.
If you're using it out of some sort of anti-Microsoft protest, enjoy your occasional site incompatibilities.
That's nice.
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"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Ha 80/80---De 60/60---Ar 60/60---GoL 72/72---Ab 60/60---Dk 60/60---Af 60/60---Ud 60/60---WD 60/60---WDQ 60/60---BW 60/60---UH 60/60---NB 60/60---DDe 60/60---SSB 59/60 (Does anyone want to buy my SSB collection?)
Champion of Something, I imagine I will think of something
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
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zenthrus
Commander
4680 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 12/05/2006 9:00 PM |
| Posted By IanB on 12/04/2006 11:33 AM If you're only using FireFox for tabbed browsing, you might consider trying IE 7, which has that feature.
If you're using it out of some sort of anti-Microsoft protest, enjoy your occasional site incompatibilities.
Most
people are using Firefox over IE because IE is a sieve for
spyware/hackers/etc. Anti-Microsoft protest theories are quaint, but
remember to be polite. [thread hijack off]
I still have a hard time bringing myself to plunk down the cash for the
MM4 since I template my own humanoids and most of the new monsters
didn't look interesting enough (some interest, some not, and some
clockwork steeds....).
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Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers
Knight of the Large Dire Chicken
Have/Want List
Trade References | |
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Sulaco
Underboss
1605 Posts
| | 12/06/2006 7:05 AM |
| If you're only using FireFox for tabbed browsing, you might consider trying IE 7, which has that feature.
If you're using it out of some sort of anti-Microsoft protest, enjoy your occasional site incompatibilities.
--
I use Firefox cos I don't want to roam the internet with a "Hack Me" sign taped to my back.
Enjoy your occasional security alerts and hacker attacks.  | |
Champion of the Gelatinous Cube. Nemesis of Gnomes and Dinosaurs.
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. ~ Terry Pratchett | |
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