| | You are not authorized to post a reply. |
| | Author | Messages | |
YRM_DM
Sergeant
901 Posts
    
 | | 12/09/2006 11:12 AM |
| I picked this book up the other day.
1 - My players are currently in Hell.
2 - Hordes of the Abyss was good.
I won't go into a huge review, but, I feel that Tyrants of the Nine Hells is one of the best supplements that I've purchased. Keep in mind that I am a DM, and I like to have a lot of nasty villians with nasty plots.
There is an equal amount of fluff and crunchy bits, but, the fluff is very well done and actually more valueable than the bits.
The Prestige Classes are good for PCs, but a lot of the feats and spells are more for evil NPCs.
The Devils and schemes in this book actually make the Demons in Hordes of the Abyss look like a much safer fight for the PCs.
Crossing Devils is a bit like joining the mafia, screwing the Don's wife, stealing money, and then ratting to the police, then going on national TV and bragging about how stupid anyone in any mafia family is and how their ancestry is questionable.
If you like writing plots in double, triple, and quadruple layers, this book is great. For example, if the PCs are given a map to a fortress in hell and details on how they can free a soul (souls are the currency and fuel of hellish power), it might be so that the PCs can humiliate the devil who has captured that soul... and that devil may get demoted so that someone worse, the one who gave the PCs the map, can take his place.
Even if the PCs never visit Baator, there are lots of great ways to throw twists and turns at the PCs.
There are some great examples about how Imps tempt and tweak semi-innocent NPCs until they go over the edge.
If you thought the way that Anakin Skywalker was convinced to join the Dark Side was weak at best (What have I done? You're running both sides of the war! Oh well, I join you, so we can have peace!), you'll be happy to know that the plots and schemes in Tyrants make a lot more sense.
There are even tables of acts that a PC or NPC can do that would grant certain points towards that PC becoming Lawful or Evil.
The twists and turns and descriptions are very fun to read. I found myself reading this book almost from cover to cover.
A lot of the devilish encounters in Hell itself aren't pure combat encounters... and they don't over-provide customized statted NPCs (I like to do that myself anyway).
Most of the twists and turns in Baator work themselves out like a horror movie (not a slasher film so much, like with the Demons). Just when the heroes think they've won the day or done a good deed, some twist or turn rears its ugly head. (like the Twilight Zone or Creep Show or some HP Lovecraft book)
Instead of making you wonder how you can be nasty enough as a DM, this book will have you wondering, "If I play this right, how can the players even have a chance to come out unscathed?" Having read this book, I feel more able to ad-lib, in depth, what the PCs are witnessing and what they might encounter in Maladomini. I had read lots of clips on Wikipedia and dove somewhat into Dante's Inferno, but, for D&D purposes, this is a better source of inspiration.
This book also drives home the fate of any Lawful Evil PC or NPCÂ who isn't claimed by a diety... and it's nasty, even if that LE character was a great tyrant or mage in his day, his fate is usually the same, but Tyrants are too self-important to think they'll share the same fate as other tyrants.
This book gives a lot of ammunition to DMs who have trouble convincing players why they should play as heroes, when it's more "fun" to be bad guys. (not that you can't switch up now and again)
If you're a DM, and you like treachery, I give this book very high marks.
If you just had the core books and this book, you could run quite a nasty campaign. | |
Completed good trades with Demagogue, PigSnot, DoB, and Alepulp.
I know you can hear MY thoughts... Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow... | |
|
warty_nosed_goblin
Underboss
1384 Posts
| | 12/10/2006 6:14 AM |
| | Hey, the Inferno! Having just read that for college, I'm planning to write a nice little adventure based on it...it even comes with maps and monster descriptions, so perfect. | |
Call me: W.N. Gobo!
originally posted by grim:
While he is clearly insane, he does have a point. | |
|
gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 12/10/2006 9:44 AM |
| | It should be. It most likely was the inspiration, if not taken wholecloth, for Baator in 1st ed. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
|
Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 12/10/2006 11:04 AM |
| Interesting.
Have you (or anyone) compared the Fiendish Codex (Hell + Abyss) to the Books of Fiends (Vol. 1 Legions of Hell + Vol. 2 Armies of the Abyss) by any chance? I have the two latter and i've liked the read quite a bit, even though i don't use them at all (yet). Any feedback would be interesting.
Sky | |
The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
|
YRM_DM
Sergeant
901 Posts
| | 12/12/2006 5:39 AM |
| I haven't compared the new Codex to the older books, but, the layers and archdevils are updated.
There are a few new (or old and redone) devils, and the stats look solid. Actually the new monsters seem tough for their CR, but I guess that's true for most devils if you can't banish them (when in Baator).
The biggest change is Malaboge (sp?)... it's not a tilted layer of avalances anymore (they explain why).
For each layer, they set the stage for a few random encounters that could be modified (mostly) to be used on the prime material. The random encounter descriptions aren't over-statted, so there isn't wasted space on stuff you already know.
I found it an interesting read, and it would have been even if I didn't run a campaign...
Obviously, the layers are very different than the layers in Dante's inferno, but, I did work a few Inferno references into my PC's last sessions. (There were specter-soul-type beings working a rock quarry, accomplishing nothing, but the whole time, they seemed to be swarmed and stung by hornets, which is a twist on something that happens, I think, on the first layer of hell in Dante's) | |
Completed good trades with Demagogue, PigSnot, DoB, and Alepulp.
I know you can hear MY thoughts... Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow... | |
|
qstor
Sneak
135 Posts
| | 12/18/2006 6:24 PM |
| Thanks for the short review. I'm waiting for mine, I ordered it from Amazon.com a few weeks ago.
Mike
| |
We walk in the dark places no others will enter.
We stand on the bridge, and no one may pass.
We live for the one, we die for the one. | |
|
IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 12/18/2006 6:37 PM |
| I liked it, and although I found the Abyss book to be in general superior, I did greatly appreciate that they fully re-wrote most of the pre-3.5 devils in new entries, rather than just re-CR them like Vol. I did. The CRs for the archdevil aspects also are in a better spot I think than the ones for the demon lords in Vol. I., and in a "lower" powered game could easily be used as the real stats for these entities. Finally there are some really slick divine feats in this book that any paladin or cleric player may want to check out. Borderline overpowered, maybe, but the whole divine feat mechanic is in general. 
On the minus side, I'm not really a huge fan of the constant shuffling they do of archdevils and who rules which plane, etc. I sometimes wonder if they do that just so they can re-write all the planar descriptions and sell them to us again. 
It should also be noted that at least 2 devils are missing from the index of all published devils at the end of the book: the dust devil (araton) from Sandstorm, and the advespa from MM2. There may be others. (I always get unreasonably annoyed by errors like that.) | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
|
IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 12/18/2006 6:40 PM |
| By the way, I think you're right about the monsters being tough for their CR, YRM. This seems to be a general trend with devils compared to demons, though. Their ACs are very very high, and the high incidence of regeneration, plus typed DR, makes that even harder to deal with for many PCs.
I think a possible house rule if you find devils are tearing up groups that they should just be a hard challenge for is nerfing the regeneration to fast healing. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
|
Star
Sergeant
978 Posts
New Britain, CT
| | 12/19/2006 4:02 AM |
| | Thanks for the review - my copy is sitting under my Christmas tree. | |
Champion of Gromph Baenre | |
|
warty_nosed_goblin
Underboss
1384 Posts
| | 12/19/2006 8:06 AM |
| | Just paged through it yesterday. It looked nice, very nice art IMHO, and at least at a cursory glance looked like something I'd want to incorporate into a game at some point (some point being me finding a group of people to play with) | |
Call me: W.N. Gobo!
originally posted by grim:
While he is clearly insane, he does have a point. | |
|
YRM_DM
Sergeant
901 Posts
| | 12/19/2006 8:08 AM |
| Actually, my group is pretty tough to challenge.
Through good planning and role-play and a called favor, they were able to obtain some silversheen.
The toughest thing about a lot of the devils is their Aura of Fear.
When the group's Favored Soul failed to cast Mass Align Weapon before a fight with a Barbed Devil, a CR that the group should have been able to deal with, the fight turned very nasty.
- Barbarian, ran off in fear, badly hurt.
- Dwarf, down to 8 HP.
- Rogue, grappled and down to low 20s, enough that one more round of impales may have killed.
- Scout, hurt.
- Favored Soul, not hurt because he transposed himself with a Celestial Bear which ran off in fear.
Had the FS not ended his swap spell and finally cast Mass Align, probably 2 PCs would have died.
5 L10 PCs with a Cohort and an NPC companion at the time, should be able to deal with a Barbed Devil. Usually, this group has superior team tactics, but, the Favored Soul is 13 years old (son of a player) and he made a mistake (which is fine, we work that out in character). | |
Completed good trades with Demagogue, PigSnot, DoB, and Alepulp.
I know you can hear MY thoughts... Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow... | |
|
Mjollnir
Underboss
1397 Posts
Canary Islands - Spain
| | 12/20/2006 5:56 AM |
| Hey, YRM_DM! I guess your players are in desperate need of the Celestial Codex I: Angels from Heaven or the like handbook right now, just to neutralize all the dire straits they are involved in.
| |
Champion of the Molydeus
Vindicated Blood War Called Shot: Cornugon (Horned Devil)
Icons Called Shot: Tarrasque
Vindicated Dungeon of Dread Called Shot: Mind Flayer
Against the Giants Called Shot: Uncommon Fire Giant
Demonweb Called Shot: Myrlochar
Feywild Called Shot: Uncommon Male Ogre
"Sé que me acusan de soberbia, y tal vez de misantropía, y tal vez de locura. Tales acusaciones (que yo castigaré a su debido tiempo) son irrisorias." - Jorge Luis Borges
I sell my collection at:
http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/54/view/topic/postid/801203/Default.aspx | |
|
YRM_DM
Sergeant
901 Posts
| | 12/20/2006 10:59 AM |
| Actually, if they do get out of Hell, I have never-ending side events from now until the end of Campaign.
They pretty much show up in Maladomini, and, within hours, they're scouted and being bounced around as pawns in competing high level Archdevil schemes that they don't know about.
The Devils are so bureaucratic that they won't violate their own edicts, but, they're working to use the PCs as a loophole to get something they want and maintain deniability. So ultimately, there is no way the PCs come out of hell without being on the bad side of SOME force or other, and the ones that they helped may even decide that now, they want to try to corrupt the helpers. | |
Completed good trades with Demagogue, PigSnot, DoB, and Alepulp.
I know you can hear MY thoughts... Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow... | |
|
Mjollnir
Underboss
1397 Posts
Canary Islands - Spain
| | 12/20/2006 3:24 PM |
| Oh! You're such a wicked, eeeeevil DM! C'mon throw in an army of Solars to help them out  | |
Champion of the Molydeus
Vindicated Blood War Called Shot: Cornugon (Horned Devil)
Icons Called Shot: Tarrasque
Vindicated Dungeon of Dread Called Shot: Mind Flayer
Against the Giants Called Shot: Uncommon Fire Giant
Demonweb Called Shot: Myrlochar
Feywild Called Shot: Uncommon Male Ogre
"Sé que me acusan de soberbia, y tal vez de misantropía, y tal vez de locura. Tales acusaciones (que yo castigaré a su debido tiempo) son irrisorias." - Jorge Luis Borges
I sell my collection at:
http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/54/view/topic/postid/801203/Default.aspx | |
|
YRM_DM
Sergeant
901 Posts
| | 12/20/2006 10:21 PM |
| The Fiendish Codex: 9 Hells, actually says this. (paraphrased)
"If you're playing Devils right, your players may complain that you're being unfair."
The book actually suggests stuff like having devils murder the PCs mounts while left unattended, or to purposely try to target and murder an animal companion or cohort in combat, then teleport away.
Since the goal isn't to "beat" the PCs, a DM using the Codex actually may have to think out how the PCs can finally escape or win the day without provoking an eternal, annoying, murderous grudge. | |
Completed good trades with Demagogue, PigSnot, DoB, and Alepulp.
I know you can hear MY thoughts... Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow... | |
| 
jgsugden
Commander
4320 Posts
Walnut Creek, CA
| | 12/21/2006 11:08 AM |
| I have always prefered the 9 Hells to the Abyss for 1 simple reason: You have a real world to explore in the 9 Hells, while the Abyss is so expansive that you never have a 'feel' for what you might find in it.
I generally forgive a few editing errors, but this book has a few too many for me to give it a pass. A couple beasts are listed as having 'summon baatezu' abilities in the stat block, but the abilitiy is never explained in terms of what they can summon. There are multiple references in the book to 'demons' when they meant to say'devils'. Etc... The book is full of these minor mistakes.
I am also a bit frustrated by the quick turnover in the devil ranks. The books often speak of these devils being involved in plots that take millenia to unfold. However, the plots actually seem to unfold on a fairly quick basis, with entire planes and power structures changing between the Book of Vile Darkness and the Fiendish Codex II.Â
Although I don't use the standard D&D cosmology in my homebrew games (I use a 9 plane system that is much easier), I find a lot of inspiration in these books. This one, in particular, has proven to have a wealth of information that will have a huge effect on my next campaign setting. | |
Champion of Meepo _*_ Myztek on the Wizards Boards. _*_ (2206 DDM on 03/06/06)
Please note: The use of the indicates an attempt at humor ... often a bad attempt.
BAD EBAY SELLERS LIST (CLICK HERE): AVOID AT ALL COSTS
| |
|
Vrecknidj
Warlord
10104 Posts
United States
| | 12/25/2006 8:16 AM |
| I just started reading this. On page 6, I encountered two typos: a simple error "intrduced" instead of "introduced," but which should have been caught; and a copy-and-paste error where the previous Fiendish Codex is referred to.
{sigh}
Why?
These books, I'm sure, are great, but it's so tiring to have to overlook the editing mistakes.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
|
Rakhamon
Warrior
300 Posts
| | 12/28/2006 10:34 AM |
| I just got hold of this today (stupid delays in getting products to Europe), and it looks good. However, some things immediately stick out.
First of all, there are a few typos here and there, as Vreck points out.
Secondly, and even more groan-inducing, there are two opposing views of the Abishai presented at various points in the book. On Page 11, it states that they advance from one color to another, or rarely advance to other types of devils. THEN the abishai monster entry perpetuates the Monsters of Faerun view that abishai are locked in whatever color they are, but adds that they may advance normally into other devil types. This is a pretty glaring error.
In general though, the artwork and text seem nice. Another good splatbook. 
Ian: The reshuffling of archdevils is weird. I'm guessing they really wanted to be rid of the Hag Countess, who was not a "classic" devil-figure in any way, and shift in Glasya, who's at least a classic 1st edition Archdevil.
I kinda missed Geryon and Moloch, the exiled lords, though.
The Kochracon from the old Planescape setting, and later the BoVD, is also missing from the index. Sloppy, and I wanted to see these guys updated. How can you not love cockroach-shaped devils with penchants for mad surgery?
Mjollnir: Don't say that, or we might get another of that wretched late-2nd edition books about angels.
| |
My trading references: http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/53/postid/680508/view/topic/Default.aspx
KD Embassador to Sweden, Entertainment Liaison to the Founder | |
|
Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 12/28/2006 11:11 AM |
| Well, i just bought the two fiendish codex books today. I'm usually not a buyer of splat books, but the nine hells and the abyss have always had a warm corner in my heart.
Sky | |
The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
|
Vrecknidj
Warlord
10104 Posts
United States
| | 12/30/2006 4:50 PM |
| After having spent a few days reading a significant minority of the book, I can say that I'm generally pleased. There are a few minor errors, which pains me (maybe it's the devils trying to make my life a little more miserable, to try to sucker me into the dark side). But, I like most of what's there and I anticipate using some of the material in my campaign.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
|
gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 12/30/2006 8:31 PM |
| | Just got the book. I've only read the introduction, but I have to say that's a great story to start the book off. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
|
Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 01/02/2007 8:01 AM |
| I've read about 10 pages, and of course quickly browsed through the entire book, and i'm also quite pleased up to now.
Interesting introduction too, although it's not the story i'll keep for the creation of the world (i've set up my own for my home brew). I find that it puts the devils and Asmodeus in particular at the center-stage a little to much for my taste, although in a book about devils it can be expected. Also, the gods look a bit like a bunch of rookies in that introduction that are being led by the nose by Asmodeus, but again, in a book about devils you can expect that the devils will be at the forefront, so i still like the story which is proposed.
Sky | |
The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
|
gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 01/02/2007 8:44 AM |
| Yup, that's why I like it. It reminds me of the (2nd ed ?) clan books for Legend of the 5 Rings. Each book started with a story about why each clan is the greatest and every other one was a fool.
In any full game world, I expect multiple creation myths based on cultural and racial view points. What is the true one? Who knows, and finding ut is fun. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
|
forkedmoon
Underboss
1305 Posts
| | 01/02/2007 9:53 AM |
| | I like the book but am a bit disappointed in the changes to some of the lords from the AD&D days like the loss of dispater's cloven foot, baalezebul (sp.) new appearance as the caterpillar from a bug's life, and the overabundance of each lord's use of pit fiends (how many pit fiends would I need to recreate some of these encounters - is this a big push for the Blood War rare or what?) | |
Champion of Cyclops
| |
|
gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 01/02/2007 12:24 PM |
| | If it's any consolation, and I sympathize because I thought the same when I first saw the changes, some of the changes were made awhile ago in Book of Vile Darkness, like Baalzebub's appearance. The rate of the shuffling has been a little quick recently, but as long as this is not a consistant thing it should be alright. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
|
IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 01/03/2007 1:31 PM |
| Posted By gss_000 on 12/30/2006 8:31 PM
Just got the book. I've only read the introduction, but I have to say that's a great story to start the book off.
Unfortunately the story really doesn't work from a Greyhawk canon perspective, but yeah it isn't bad at all otherwise. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
|
gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 01/03/2007 2:23 PM |
| | Greyhawk cannon never my big thing, other than what I learn in Living Greyhawk. What is the canon there in terms of devils? | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
|
Rakhamon
Warrior
300 Posts
| | 01/03/2007 5:03 PM |
| Posted By IanB on 01/03/2007 1:31 PM Posted By gss_000 on 12/30/2006 8:31 PM
Just got the book. I've only read the introduction, but I have to say that's a great story to start the book off.
Unfortunately the story really doesn't work from a Greyhawk canon perspective, but yeah it isn't bad at all otherwise.
It's metaphorical. It may not have happened at all like that, and those gods that are named were probably not involved at all, but there's SOME kind of truth behind it.
Stuff like St Cuthbert's origin aren't really continuity issues, since it's a metaphorical, or "just-so" story. | |
My trading references: http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/53/postid/680508/view/topic/Default.aspx
KD Embassador to Sweden, Entertainment Liaison to the Founder | |
|
IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 01/03/2007 5:13 PM |
| | It wouldn't work as a "just so" story presented in the context of a society that has very specific beliefs about stuff like St. Cuthbert, though - and I'm sure Cuthbertines wouldn't be shy about the sort of beating they'd give someone who put a story like this around! | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
|
Rakhamon
Warrior
300 Posts
| | 01/03/2007 5:19 PM |
| Posted By IanB on 01/03/2007 5:13 PM
It wouldn't work as a "just so" story presented in the context of a society that has very specific beliefs about stuff like St. Cuthbert, though - and I'm sure Cuthbertines wouldn't be shy about the sort of beating they'd give someone who put a story like this around!
I'm sure Oerthians in general know about as much about St Cuthbert's earthly origins as the average real-world Christian knows about the origins of his religious practices, hymns or what have yous.
| |
My trading references: http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/53/postid/680508/view/topic/Default.aspx
KD Embassador to Sweden, Entertainment Liaison to the Founder | |
|
gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 01/03/2007 8:24 PM |
| I think D&D has always gotten in trouble when it deals with the metaphysics of its various worlds, having to cater to more than one universe. Multiverses are tricky things and often make your head hurt discussing what is cannon or not. That's why I just go for "what my character knows" and see stories like this as I said before, what a race might believe about itself and/or propogate.
But in the defense of Greyhawk cannon, if you asked Asmodeus what happened and he told you this story, do you really think he'd tell you the truth? | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
|
yack
Commander
3136 Posts
Ottawa, Canada
| | 01/04/2007 5:08 AM |
| gss_000 you just made a very good point who's to say Asmodeus is telling the truth..hahahaha
When it comes to the 9 layers and the Abyss for me I use both the Realms and Greyhawk ideas and a bit of homebrew. There's just way too many holes and I like stuff from both. I play in the realms by the way... but who says it has to be exactely what they say it should be. Thats the best part of the Setting books you don't have to use it for word for word, you can make changes.
I'm thinking of bring Geryon back in the tier. | |
Champion of the Peryton
Vindicated Champion : Pit Fiend, Devourer
ATG: Fog Giant
DW: Duergar Priest
RPG Only!!!! The Drumming Drunkn' DM | |
|
IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 01/04/2007 11:51 AM |
| | Well, I just think if Asmodeus wants me to believe him, he should take the time to make sure his story matches up is all. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
|
Rakhamon
Warrior
300 Posts
| | 01/04/2007 12:33 PM |
| Since St Cuthbert's alignment got retconned, who knows what's happened with his backstory? ;P The point is, new creators change things in the game, whether by intent or by ignorance. It's a fairly trivial detail to get hung up on.
Much more suspect is the fact that the story doesn't mention that Asmo fell into Baator... ;P | |
My trading references: http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/53/postid/680508/view/topic/Default.aspx
KD Embassador to Sweden, Entertainment Liaison to the Founder | |
|
IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 01/04/2007 4:18 PM |
| | Hey man, I am all *about* getting hung up on trivial details. It's what I do! | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
|
gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 01/04/2007 4:56 PM |
| Posted By IanB on 01/04/2007 11:51 AM Well, I just think if Asmodeus wants me to believe him, he should take the time to make sure his story matches up is all.
That's why you are a good Cuthberdite and one day will get an awesome relic of a beatstick.
| |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
|
kyrin
Commander
3146 Posts
| | 01/10/2007 8:37 PM |
| I like most of what I've read from FC II so far. I'm planning now to have my players go to defend a soul unjustly condemned to Hell. Should be a fun RP session.
One thing I don't like so far is the system of "Corruption Points" and "Obesiance Points." A conjurer mage who uses Monster Summoning to summon a fwiggin' lemure or fiendish dire weasel nine times in his/her career is condemned to Hell, unless they do LOTS of penance. And just about every soldier that *doesn't* desert or turn coat can rack up a Hellworthy obesiance score for that matter. I mean, summoning a fiendish dire bat 2 or 3 times to kill some orcs is hardly the equivalent of torturing somebody.
Still, I'm liking it so far.
JIM
aka kyrin | |
My Have/Want List <-|-|->My Trades and References 1 <-|-|->My Trades and References 2
Pronounce "Drow" like "crow"! Viva la Revolution! We Shall Overcome!
Vindicated Champion of the Stirge! Vindicated Champion of the Githyanki Knight on Red Dragon!!
Vindicated Champion of the Androsphinx! | |
|
Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 01/11/2007 8:14 AM |
| Yeah, corruption points are a bit wacky, i think they've suggested that for those that need to quantify alignment.
Sky | |
The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
|
gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 01/11/2007 8:43 AM |
| | I kind of like it, although it might need some tweaking. Summoning evil creatures is an evil act. I can buy that, and I accept it. I've seen it in other games and it is already codifie in the rules with clerics of good alignment not able to cast evil descriptor spells. Cast a 1st level spell nine times and essentially become evil? That's harsh. But since alignment is a factor, quantifying it somewhat is not a bad thing. I think it adds that bit of temptation vs onsequence that it needs. This is not to say that alignment has to be hard and fast at all times, it still needs flexibility and ambiguity for good roleplaying. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
|
| | You are not authorized to post a reply. |
|
| |
ActiveForums 3.7 | You must be signed in to participate in the
games. |