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Ice_Troll98
Sneak
154 Posts
    
In your closet
 | | 02/08/2007 3:59 PM |
| Hi, I'm trying to make a bandit lord who has magics manacles on and he can't get them off. I want him to still be able to fight though, so I'm making him a monk. I still want him to have weapons so I thought of greaves. Can any of you help me with the greaves' stats? I just want the to do some damage and be a monks special weapon. By the way he will tumble and jump around and nothing in his "dungeon" needs hands so he will be able to do everything fine exept use weapons other than ones that go on your feet.
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 02/08/2007 5:10 PM |
| Here's a design problem. Any weapon that is better that a 1st level monks would be rediculous. If you still want a weapon, I'd make them a 1d3 x2 crit, like a gauntlet. They are similar in function, ie using armor as a weapon. But a 1st level monk had 1d6 x2 damage and there is no reason all of these attacks can't be kicks, or even head butts, etc.
But thematiclly if that is what you want, so you can enchant something like a weapon, then I'd do it like that. | |
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Corim Danex
Warlord
6561 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 02/08/2007 5:49 PM |
| | I think that you should just have him use his feet for regular monk attacks (kicks) like gss_000 mentioned. | |
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Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 02/09/2007 7:41 AM |
| I agree. Special monk weapons are... well, special. Making greaves or another "non-weapon" into a weapon, let alone a special monk weapon to boot, hardly appears to make sense. But in the end, 1d3 (20, X2) is equivalent to a normal unarmed attack so that makes sense.
By the way, although having his hands tied does not prevent him from attacking, i'd probably give some penalties to someone in that predicament, such as -2 on all attack rolls and -2 or more on skills that have DEX and some of which have STR as a corresponding ability. Indeed, to fight you need to keep your balance, feint, and generally use your hands and arms; balancing without being able to spread your arms out is harder; anything requiring some agility is harder without your arms, try it out! 
Good luck,
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Sulaco
Underboss
1605 Posts
| | 02/09/2007 8:24 AM |
| | I am no martial arts expert, but is it really feasible to use your calves as weapons? | |
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Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 02/09/2007 8:57 AM |
| Posted By Sulaco on 02/09/2007 8:24 AM
I am no martial arts expert, but is it really feasible to use your calves as weapons?
Sure, if you flex'em really quickly... 
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The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 02/09/2007 3:17 PM |
| Calves, being muscle, are poor weapons. Shins are better being bone and I could see greaves making kicks hurt more.
For other characters, I could see th penalty on attacks, but not so much for monks and especially in this case. He's wearing manacles, not gloves, so he'd still have use of his hands to grab and balance with, although they are restrained. Look at muay tie fighters to see example of a martial art where kicks are used heavily:
Muai Thai | |
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zenthrus
Commander
4592 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 02/10/2007 12:28 PM |
| I suppose you could always use the rules for spiked armor for fighting with spiked greaves or spaulders but you'd be better off (as has already been noted) just using the monk's standard boot to the head.
Greaves as weapon REALLY don't fit into the Monk's "special weapon" theme since East Asian martial arts aren't known for employing leg armor as a weapon (at least not any of the varieties I've seen/studied).
A better option would be a boot-knife (a weapon commonly employed in both Europe and Asia). Press your foot a certain way and a blade pops out of the boot. IIRC Complete Scoundrel even has stats for one. | |
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madda
Sergeant
714 Posts
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notserious
Sneak
114 Posts
| | 02/12/2007 9:04 AM |
| add me to the chorus, with elaboration. Many of the monk's special abilities specify that the monk must be unarmored to take advantage of them - greaves are armour . . .Other than that, the muay thai reference is an appropriate one - I've trained extensively and thai boxers kick with their shin, not their feet. And speaking from experience, having hands manacled, (no, I haven't fought while manacled, but I know how and where my hands move when I fight) would impede fighting - not prevent, but impede. So I could see a monk being less punished than a non-monk, but it is still preferable not to be manacled.
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 02/12/2007 3:08 PM |
| Neat point about the armor argument. How much armor do you need to count as armor? Does a shin guard effectively give you +1 armor bonus? I wouldn't fault a DM for making that call, as it is reasonable. Furthermore, I have seen low level monks who have used armor and weapons because they lose a lot less than they gain.
Lastly, you fight Muay Thai? Wow. I'm highly impressed. | |
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notserious
Sneak
114 Posts
| | 02/14/2007 11:52 AM |
| gss_000: Your observations highlight that this is a grey area with a lot of room for a GM to make his/her own judgements based on what would best suit the campaigns style of play. I do recall older editions having piece armour rules where greaves did have armour counts though . . .and from personal experience, I think having a chunk of metal strapped to my leg would have hindered my kicking, and as to whether it would help - thai boxers have pretty toughened shins - I knew a lot of guys who could easily kick through a few baseball bats, I could make lightposts 'ding', so I don't know that the greaves would be all that helpful.
and it is more appropriately fought - I switched from Mauy Thai after a couple of years when a training partner got his shin bone split in a match (split sounds so much more dramatic than longitudinal break) and I decided I wanted a fighting style I could pursue later into my old age. Spent the next few years having a lot of fun in a Northern Shaolin club that was undergoing a transition to filipino style arts (esp. arnise) which brought some pleasant memories back from the Muay Thai days. Most of the fighting wasn't organized - we had a low-gear sparring circle that met on weekends - but I did get disqualified from a national championship for excessive contact! two years ago I broke my foot (requiring pins and rehab that I am still going through) and I no longer do any martial arts. | |
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zenthrus
Commander
4592 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 02/14/2007 12:20 PM |
| Pity about the broken foot 
There really aren't very many long-lived Mui Thai fighters. Truly long-lived martial artists study Taiji (Tai chi) and Qigong and occasionally Bakua/Singyi. Taiji and Qigong can actually be very beneficial as far as rehabilitation goes (non-stressful martial art and healing/energy balancing breathing techniques).
Back on topic...greaves would be terrible for fighting in. They extend from ankle to above the knee with most greaves covering the kneecap completely. Good for protection, bad for range of motion. Even fully-articulated greaves (extremely rare since most greaves are boiled leather) still restrict movement crucial to a fighter that relies on leg-based attacks. Cuisse (thigh/knee armor) would work for knee attacks (close-range Mui Thai strikes) but lack lower-leg protection and still have the problem of restricting full range of motion due to the jointings.
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ransom
Sneak
86 Posts
| | 02/16/2007 9:38 AM |
| | When training new students in Martial Arts, it is often useful to have the student remove their belt and use it to tie their hands about chest level. This will train the student not to remove their hands from a useful guard position when kicking. The use of manacles would not change any of the Monks abilities or class restrictions. | |
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