ShadowLord XT
Commander
2627 Posts
    
Plane of Shadow
 | | 03/13/2007 5:42 PM |
| Steel Halo(s)
A one handed weapon. It's a steel halo sharp all around the edge. Held by a handle attached to the halo by steel wires. Handles have big bucklers helping protect PC's arms.
PC swings it around like a chain weapon, but it hurts like a sword I would think.
I would like some help turning this into a realistic rpg weapon. | |
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wildmage
Sneak
123 Posts
| | 03/13/2007 7:20 PM |
| | Well, it certainly wouldn't be overpowered if it did 1d8 slashing damage and required an exotic weapon proficiency. Maybe critical on 19-20 x2. I could see pushing that to 18-20 x2 but making it a light exotic melee weapon (3 lbs.?) that does 1d6 damage. Do you want it to have reach? | |
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2627 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 03/14/2007 6:47 AM |
| I was thinking about reach, but now not so much to keep the flavor of what I had originally came up with.
I was also thinking it would be around 5 lb. so the halo could be a bit bigger. It would be like a sword with the force of a hammer.
Would this work?
2d6, crit on 18-20
When weilding two sunder attenmpts get attack +2 (arm holding sword goes through hole, PC pulls when swinging, enemy gets cut and drops weapon)
Too overpowered? Remove sunder ability? | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
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wildmage
Sneak
123 Posts
| | 03/14/2007 7:27 AM |
| I'm confused, is it one-handed or two-handed? If one-handed, then 2d6 damage is overpowered. If it's two-handed, then 2d6 AND crit. on 18-20 (x2) is also overpowered, since none of the other exotic weapons do 2d6 and while the falchion does crit. on 18-20 (x2), it also only does 2d4 damage.
Between your 2 posts I'm confused whether or not you really want it to function like a chain weapon, which should do considerably less damage (whip is one-handed and does 1d3 nonlethal, spiked chain is 2-handed and does 2d4, crit. on 20 (x2)) in exchange for increased utility for tripping and disarming. Please clarify your intentions. | |
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Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 03/14/2007 8:24 AM |
| Shadowlord: you should compare your weapon to others to see if yours is overpowered or not. There are only two core weapons that deal up to 12 damage, and those are the greatsword and the greataxe (both 2-handed). Apart from two exotic weapons (dwarven waraxe and bastard sword), there are no one-handed weapons that deal even up to 10 points of damage. Your suggested 2d6 damage appears clearly overpowered to me. Here are a few thoughts, and a suggestion.
If you make your halo an exotic weapon, you can make it slightly better than martial weapons.
I'm unsure what exactly you have in mind by your short description, but i would think that a steel disc mounted on wires would not deal as much damage as a sword or other handle weapon on which you can apply a lot of leverage. (Although the spiked chain proponents might contradict me on this.)
However, your halo appears like a weapon that, if it hits properly, might deal considerable damage due to a sharp circular edge. I'd look into making this weapon a particularly deadly weapon on criticals.
Also, how about actually using the shield that protects you from the halo, as a buckler shield?
Here's a suggestion:
Steal Halo: One handed exotic weapon, damage 1d4+1, crit 19-20 (X3), also provides a shield bonus to AC as a buckler shield although you cannot wield another weapon than the halo itself in the halo's hand, and although as per the rules for bucklers, if you attack with the steal halo, you loose your +1 shield bonus to AC for one round; you can't shield bash with the halo nor can you add spikes to it without compromising its use as a weapon. You do not suffer a -1 penalty to hit with the halo as you would using a weapon in a buckler's hand.
This weapon deals less damage than others on most attacks, but it has an increased crit range and crit multiplier both, which no other exotic weapon has IIRC. Plus, you can use it either as a weapon or shield on a given round, which makes it really interesting for two-weapon fighting (if you have a single attack on a given round due to movement, you probably should use your other weapon and keep your shield bonus, but when you get two attacks or more you might want to drop the shield bonus and hope to crit). To prevent it from being overpowered, the "buckler" use is limited to the halo itself, i.e. you can't hold anything else in that hand; it's an exotic weapon and requires a feat to use; and it deals little base damage for a one-handed weapon.
The way you describe it, i do not see it as a good weapon for disarming. Getting the opponent's sword into your small loop should be very challenging to say the least. Check out the other disarm weapons such as spiked chains or flails: they're weapons that have flexible elongated elements that will have a natural tendency to twist around the opponent's weapon however you swing them. Plus... what happens when you fight an opponent with a greataxe or another weapon (halberd, ...) that isn't a pointy weapon? How will you use your loop to disarm him? I wouldn't go that route myself.
Sky | |
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2627 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 03/14/2007 9:07 AM |
| O.k. O.k. the sunder idea sucks that's fine. It's supposed to be a big one handed weapon. It doesn't give reach like a chain.
How about adding more dmg, but it needs a minimum strength of 17 to weild?
Steel Halo (exotic weapon)
1d6+1 crit 18-20 (x3)
Skyscraper's idea about the weapon becoming a buckler before attacking.
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Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
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Omand
Commander
3118 Posts
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
| | 03/14/2007 10:04 AM |
| Shadowlord,
Just a note, I think you are confusing a few terms in your posts. Sunder is to break weapons, disarming is simply stripping the weapon away from an opponent. Your flavour text in several examples in this thread indicate you see this "ring" as disarming a foe, not breaking their weapon.
Now, I know that you seem to be dropping that aspect, but for future weapon designs you would want to keep the difference in mind.
Cheers 
PS - and I too would view the weapon as overpowered in the various incarnations seen so far.
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Omand
Commander
3118 Posts
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
| | 03/14/2007 10:06 AM |
| Sorry, catching up on reading here.
As far as I recall without my books in front of me there are no weapons in the PHB (or any supplement) that I am aware of that require a minimum strength to weild. I would consider that a bad mechanic as a "balance" for your weapon.
Cheers
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Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7146 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 03/14/2007 11:56 AM |
| I could see the current use as somewhat balanced, it's exotic, lower damage, but higher crit range. basically, for exotic, compared to a scimitar, you get +1 damage, and +1 multiplier. Hmm, better drop the +1...
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Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 03/14/2007 1:38 PM |
| Omand: composite bows require a minimum STR score to wield.
Sky | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 03/14/2007 2:34 PM |
| Posted By Skyscraper on 03/14/2007 1:38 PM
Omand: composite bows require a minimum STR score to wield.
Sky Well, it's a minimum to avoid the penalties, but anyone can use any composite bow.
As for the weapon 18-20/x3 is a lot still. The biggest weapon with largest crit range I know is the Great Falcion from Sandstorm, with 1d12 18-20/x2 crit. I think you are going to need to balance it some more since really large crit range is usually balanced with low crit multiplier and vice versa. When I heard this weapon, it sounded like a melee chakram on a chain. Now that weapon has 1d4/x3, but I could see 1d6/x3 threatening out to 10' or 1d6/18-20 and doing the same.
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zenthrus
Commander
4836 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 03/14/2007 2:47 PM |
| One of the problems with developing new weapons is that you really need a good physical description of the item. The initial description invokes an image similar to a flail. The 'halo' ring acts as the flail head, is attached to the handle by wires instead of chains, and the handle itself is guarded.
Judging by that description, I would base the initial design on the flail (one-hand weapon with similar qualities). Base damage = 1d8. Crit threat is 20/x2. Weight = 5 pounds. Type = Bludgeoning. Special: Flails give +2 on opposed attack rolls to disarm an enemy.
The two primary differences I see with the steel halo are that it has some sort of guard on the handle (I'll get back to that in a minute) and that the weapon is designed to slice rather than bash. So, a good translation would be:
Steel Halo
Cost: 50gp. Dmg (S): 1d6. Dmg (M): 1d8. Crit: 19-20/x2. Weight: 10 pounds. +1 shield bonus to armor class (functions as a buckler).
Special: Steel Halos act as locked gauntlets, therefore you gain a +10 bonus on any roll made to keep from being disarmed in combat. Removing a steel halo is a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity. While the steel halo is wielded, you can't use the hand wielding it for casting spells or employing skills (You can still cast spells with somatic components, provided that your other hand is free).
Special Shield Properties: You cannot use a bow or crossbow without penalty while wielding a steel halo. You can wield a weapon in your off hand, but cannot use the hand wielding a steel halo to help wield a two-handed weapon. If you use the steel halo as a weapon you don't get the AC bonus for the rest of the round.
Requirements for use: Shield Proficiency (buckler), Exotic Weapon Proficiency (steel halo)
Recommended feats: Improved Buckler Defense
So, you have a shield, locking gauntlet, and bladed flail all rolled into one. With Improved Buckler defense you would be able to retain the shield bonus to AC even while using the Steel Halo to attack.
It is comparable damage/critical threat-wise to a longsword. It is very hard to disarm, but renders that hand virtually useless for anything else. The guards on the handle provide a benefit to AC, but only when not attacking with the weapon (exception is with Improved Buckler Defense).
Please feel free to critique the wrackspawn out of this, but I would consider this to be a reasonably balanced weapon (provides more benefits than a normal martial weapon, not as powerful damage-wise as a bastard sword) that also fits the description given by the OP.
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zenthrus
Commander
4836 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 03/14/2007 2:49 PM |
| | One further note....x3 critical hit multipliers and extended critical threat ranges (i.e. 18-20 or 19-20) really shouldn't ever be combined. Weapons either critical more often (extended threat range) or with more oomph (higher multiplier). They shouldn't both critically hit often and hard. Yikes! | |
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zenthrus
Commander
4836 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 03/14/2007 2:50 PM |
| One last note, the weapon type for my above write-up should be slashing 
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2627 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 03/14/2007 3:38 PM |
| O.k. if we remove the buckler part that should make the weapon cheaper and less confusing. It would also remove the locked gaunlet part.
Steel Halo
Cost: 50gp. Dmg (S): 1d6+1. Dmg (M): 1d8+1. Crit: 20/x3. Weight: 10 pounds.
Requires exotic weapon proficiency (steel halo) | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
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wildmage
Sneak
123 Posts
| | 03/14/2007 8:13 PM |
| | The stats you've given now make it essentially a flail that does slashing damage with +1 dmg. So I would leave in the part about +2 for disarm attempts. This is both thematically and mechanically interesting. I would also drop the weight back to 5 pounds since you're not including the buckler part. The buckler part could be optional and I'd use it as per Zenthrus' suggestions. I'm not very happy about the +1 to dmg though- normal mundane weapons shouldn't have augmented damage like this. Going from an average of 4.5 to 5.5 damage is pretty major. Consider that 1d10 averages to 5.5 damage, but can still roll a 1, whereas 1d8+1 is gauranteed 2 or more with the same average damage. Therefore it is essentially better than a bastard sword (except the bastard sword has the 19-20 crit. threat range), especially with the bonus to disarm. You can do what you want to get the stats you're looking for, but I wouldn't include damage bonuses that are inherent to a non-magical weapon. | |
Champion of the Bone Naga
(There's just so much roleplaying to be done with a large skeletal snake!) | |
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2627 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 03/15/2007 6:46 AM |
| So how can I turn it away from being a flail with a different look? I don't want the other PCs to say, "well why didn't you just save money buying a flail?" It needs to have something that makes it stand out.
Steel Halo (one handed)
Cost: 40gp. Dmg (S): 1d6. Dmg (M): 1d8. Crit: 18-20/x2. Weight: 10 pounds.
Requires exotic weapon proficiency (steel halo)
??? | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
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Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 03/15/2007 7:44 AM |
| Well, you're the one who removed the locked gauntlet and buckler use parts
The crit multiplier is better than that of the flail by the way.
If i may comment on something: you appear to want a weapon that is just better than others. If you design a better weapon, everyone will want to use that one only, the other weapons will become moot. That's why you need to balance it with others.
Sky
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The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2627 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 03/15/2007 9:12 AM |
| No, no, no I don't want an ultimate weapon. I want a new weapon to use. The thing is that it's too much like the flail. Every weapon has something about it that makes it slightly unique from other weapons.
Steel Halo (one handed)
Cost: 40gp. Dmg (S): 1d6. Dmg (M): 1d8. Crit: 18-20/x2. Weight: 12 pounds.
Requires exotic weapon proficiency (steel halo)
Buckler rules. No locked gauntlet part though.
Well? Does this seem good? Or does it still look like a flail? | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2627 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 03/21/2007 6:44 AM |
| | I'll take the long pause as a yes to the last choice. | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
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