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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2623 Posts
    
Plane of Shadow
 | | 03/25/2007 3:32 PM |
| I've tried, but it took me an hour and a half and I barely got anywhere. I need a CR 6 maybe CR 7 vampire. I wanted it to be different from a normal adventure so I was thinking it could be a Yuan-Ti Pureblood Vampire. I'm not sure whether to make it an attacker or a spellcaster. The secondary quest the PCs have to accomplish during the adventure is to kill him.
Please help. | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
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wildmage
Sneak
123 Posts
| | 03/25/2007 8:13 PM |
| Sorry, I don't have my books with me and since the Yuan-ti is not in the SRD, you need the Monster Manual. In any case, you take the base hit dice of a yuan-ti half-blood and add however many class levels you need to get to 4 total hit dice (assuming the yuan-ti halfblood's base # of hit dice = CR. If not, you basically want whatever the base yuan-ti halfblood's CR is plus enough class levels to equal CR 4). There is a minor point to be made about associated class levels, but I don't think that's important here unless the base creature (a run-of-the-mill yuan-ti halfblood) has a CR larger than 2. Then adding the vampire template brings the CR up to 6. Add an additional class level if you want CR = 7. At that point you have the total hit dice of the base creature, and you need to recalculate HP by changing all hit dice to d12s (with no Con bonus since its undead). It will have all of the base creature's special abilities, all of the class features from whatever class levels you gave it, all the feats from class levels and total hit dice (1 feat for the first HD, 1 at 3rd, 1 at 6th, etc.), and all of the vampire template's abilities and special qualities. The actual process should be pretty straight-forward although all the book keeping could be a little tedious. My main concern with templates that add +2 CR or more is that the resulting creature may not have enough HPs to last very long against a party that equals its CR (since the creature doesn't gain extra hit dice from adding the template). However, this may be mitigated in the case of the vampire due to the d12 hit dice and fast healing 5. The automatic gaseous form also adds long term survivability, so it should make for a memorable villain.
If you're wondering what class to use, I would look at the yuan-ti halfblood's racial ability modifiers and then consider that the vampire template adds Str +6, Dex +4, Int +2, Wis +2, Cha +4. However you cut it, it will be pretty effective in combat. | |
Champion of the Bone Naga
(There's just so much roleplaying to be done with a large skeletal snake!) | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 03/25/2007 8:15 PM |
| APureblood Yuan-Ti Vampire is CR 5. Unless you make it a ranger, you can make it CR 6-7 if you add 1-2 levels of ranger (a yuan-ti's favored class) or 2-4 of any other class level.
Here's the orde I would do it in:
Take the Yuan-Ti
Add the levels you want.
Apply the Vampire template
Don't do it all at once. Just do each level at a time and each step at a time so you don't confuse yourself. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2623 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 03/26/2007 7:20 AM |
| So make a level 1 (class) Yuan-Ti Pureblood, make it a vampire, level 2 (class), level 3 (class). That sound right?
Also, why don't I just give it the toughness feat once or twice to help it's HP problem? | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
|
wildmage
Sneak
123 Posts
| | 03/26/2007 8:22 AM |
| Staying within the rules, Toughness or especially Improved Toughness are great for giving monsters more HP if you don't mind canning one of the monster's other feats. Another option is to just give it HP on the high end of its range rather than the average (i.e. the equivalent of rolling 10, 11, or 12 on the d12 for your vampire). One of the best ways to effectively give a big bad evil guy/girl (BBEG) more HPs is to give him/her some low-level minions that don't appreciably change the challenge rating of the encounter- i.e. some body guards and fodder that will distract PCs for a couple of rounds while the BBEG casts key spells or sets up a brutal attack. This is especially true for vampires, who can create and control spawn and can dominate other humanoids/creatures. A hugely disappointing issue for DMs everywhere are BBEGs with glass jaws who get taken down before getting off more than 1 or 2 spells or landing 1 or 2 blows. In other words, that huge base attack bonus or large spell list that add to a monster's challenge rating are meaningless if they're hardly used before the monster falls. Does the Yuan-ti have any racial hit dice (before class levels are added)?
Finally, for the purpose of providing some back story for how this vampire came to be, if it was "created" by another vampire, it should really have at least 5 hit dice since creatures with 4 or less hit dice become Vampire Spawn rather than Vampires. This will also make it a more long-lived opponent at CR 6 or 7. Also, I think gss_000 meant to do it the other way- start with a Yuan-ti halfblood, add whatever levels you want FIRST (you're shooting for CR 4-5 at this point), then add the vampire template (giving CR 6-7). Don't worry about the HP total until the end since you'll change all hit dice to d12s with the template. | |
Champion of the Bone Naga
(There's just so much roleplaying to be done with a large skeletal snake!) | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 03/26/2007 8:44 AM |
| You can do it whatever order you want. I'd do it that way just because I like to add templates last.
I wouldn't worry too much about hit dice or feats for it. No matter what you do, lack of a con score is going to be rough, but they factor that in for undead. Yuan-Ti purebloods have 4 racial hit dice (CR 3). If you use non-associated class levels, you can put a maximum of 4 levels of hit dice on the creature to get it to CR 5 and then vampire template becomes CR 7 (but no added hit dice). All those become d12 by becoming a vampire. Adding Improved Toughness only gains you 8 hp, 11 if you also take Toughness, and if you take toughness twice that is only 6 hp. Is that really worth it for what you are giving up? Use that feat slot for something better and just increase the number of hit points on the die (Increasing it from average to average +1 is the same as the feat). Remember that vampires have DR 10?/magic and silver and fast heal 5. That's a potent combination as most adventurers, especially at the appropriate level for this encounter, probably have only one magic weapon and I bet it's not silver. Plus with the gaseous form ability it can escape to fight another day if you need him to.
Here's something that may be fun: There is a death ward special ability (+1 upgrade), but there is also a life ward spell, which does the same as death ward only for healing and positive energy attacks. Give him life ward shield or armor and he can ignore 1 turn or 1 positive energy attack a day. If you have a turner, this will lengthen the encounter without totally hosing everyone with some over the top ability.
In my experience, I've never had a dull Vampire encounter, even when it wasn't twinked out. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2623 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 03/26/2007 1:39 PM |
| I wish I had read those last two posts before now. I just created the vampire. It kicks @ss, besides having 35 HP. It has 7 HD iirc (4 from Yuan-Ti, 3 from class levels) so it is a vampire.
It's a Wizard. I love spells. I've made him a transmuter. He has Daze, Ray of Frost, Mage Hand, Ghost Sound, Enlarge, Ray of Enfeeblement, Silent Image, Blindness/Deafness, and Blur.
When he hears the PCs coming he casts Silent Image and Ghost Sound before the PCs walk into the main battling area. They will see a Chaos Beast in the center. This will make them waste arrows, spells, or make them run away. If they are smart they will see through it and go onto step 2.
The battling area is a round collosseum (sp?) with steps to the second floor at the other end. There is a magic looking circle etched into the center iof the floor. The Vampire is sitting at the second floor above the door the PCs enter in from (so they won't see him right away). When the PCs fully enter he closes the iron door (crashing behind the PCs). The Vampire uses mage hand to distract the PCs by having the hand throw a rock at one of the PCs.
The Vampire then starts to play the flute which calls out the vampire spawn and some rats (Children of the Night).
As the PCs fight the vampire starts nerfing the heck out of the PCs from above then walks over to the circle on the main floor. If the PCs are still managing to cut through the spawn and rats easily the vampire summons a Chaos Beast (His past vampire master, a Yuan-Ti Abomination). If not then the vampire just attacks after using the last of his useful spells.
If it's an even fight, and the PCs kill the Chaos Beast before the vampire, the vampire plays the flute and brings in more spawn and tries to capture one of the female PCs to make her his vampire queen.
I'm not sure I did the attack bonuses right. I have him attacking at +4/+4 or +7 ranged or +4 slam. His str is 22 (+6). He has two weapon fighting and ambidexterity. It just seems so low. He uses my Steel Halo weapons if it matters. | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
|
gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 03/26/2007 3:16 PM |
| | Those numbers look wrong. With +6 str, he should have more than +4 for the slam. The yuan-ti's base attack is +4 by itself, add +1 from wizard and his attack bonus for melee attacks should be +11. I'm not sure why he should have those other two attacks, unless it is BAB/Grapple and then it's +5/+11. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2623 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 03/26/2007 3:42 PM |
| Posted By gss_000 on 03/26/2007 3:16 PM
Those numbers look wrong. With +6 str, he should have more than +4 for the slam. The yuan-ti's base attack is +4 by itself, add +1 from wizard and his attack bonus for melee attacks should be +11. I'm not sure why he should have those other two attacks, unless it is BAB/Grapple and then it's +5/+11.
Feat: Two Weapon Fighting | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
|
gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 03/26/2007 5:21 PM |
| | Then the bouses would be +9/+9.But why did you give him this feat? Your tactics and classes are all casting related, so it seems like a suboptimal choice unless you see him wading in to combat a lot earlier than your post suggests. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
|
ShadowLord XT
Commander
2623 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 03/26/2007 6:22 PM |
| | If he's completely specified on spellcasting then if he's based he's screwed. A rageing barbarian will chop through 35 HP quickly even with DR. I'd like to give him a fighting chance and it'll give me a chance to try out my Steel Halos. | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
|
gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 03/26/2007 8:54 PM |
| The number of attacks the vampire has doesn't change how quickly a character will kill it. If the flail isn't light, then the penalties are going to get higher, but if it is, your gping to hit less often with them. I'd increase the saves on your abilities so you can dominate the barbarian before it even gets to you. You've chosen spells that should reduce martial threats. Blur, ray of enfeeblement, etc should make it harder to get through the DR and fast heal that an extra attack isn't critical for survivability.
But writing this post I've seen a cooler way to use this feat. Two weapon slam/halo. Negative levels on your foes will only help you more. Don't fill up one hand with a weapon and it'll be thematically cool fighter.
But why does your vampire only have 35 hp? Vampires have d12 hit dice. Even if you just take average, it should be 42 hp. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
|
ShadowLord XT
Commander
2623 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 03/27/2007 7:46 AM |
| Two Weapon Slam/Halo, sounds good.
I just did a practice HP roll. 4d8 1st level, then 2d12 for the next two levels. Max HP is 56 (32+24). | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
|
nyjastul69
Commander
2710 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 03/27/2007 9:16 AM |
| Posted By ShadowLord XT on 03/27/2007 7:46 AM
Two Weapon Slam/Halo, sounds good.
I just did a practice HP roll. 4d8 1st level, then 2d12 for the next two levels. Max HP is 56 (32+24).
All of the creatures HD are changed to d12's when the vampire template is added.
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You know, I keep thinking that after the new design team gets done with D&D 4e, D&D won't stand for Dungeons and Dragons anymore, because well, that's just not fun. It's old and stuffy. - Originally Posted by BabWryter on Kenzerco.com | |
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2623 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 03/27/2007 5:36 PM |
| Posted By nyjastul69 on 03/27/2007 9:16 AM Posted By ShadowLord XT on 03/27/2007 7:46 AM
Two Weapon Slam/Halo, sounds good.
I just did a practice HP roll. 4d8 1st level, then 2d12 for the next two levels. Max HP is 56 (32+24). All of the creatures HD are changed to d12's when the vampire template is added.
Oh, I see. I though it was all HD after becoming a vampire. Thanks | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
|
ShadowLord XT
Commander
2623 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 04/08/2007 5:04 PM |
| O.k. I have a blank room in the Vampire's 'residence'. I want it to be something out of the ordinary.
Any ideas? | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
| 
Fun Guy from Yuggoth
Cthulhufnord
Warlord
10639 Posts
Umass Amherst Baby!
| | 04/10/2007 12:50 AM |
| | Crib with a Vampire Spawn Child in it? | |
Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul,
ash nazg thrakatulûk, agh burzum-ishi krimpatul | |
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