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wicked cool
Underboss
2017 Posts
    
 | | 05/31/2007 9:28 AM |
| | does anyone else miss the old roll a 1 and thres a chance you can lose your weapon or even hit a pary member. does anyone house rule this in 3.5 and if so how | |
The ROCK layeth the smacketh down. Long live Farscape
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i will change my avatar when martin completes dances with dragons | |
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nyjastul69
Commander
2710 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 05/31/2007 9:40 AM |
| | I did. When a character rolled a nat 1 I would have them back it up. If the back up roll hits there is no fumble. If it's a miss, the amount that they missed by determines the severity of the fumble. | |
You know, I keep thinking that after the new design team gets done with D&D 4e, D&D won't stand for Dungeons and Dragons anymore, because well, that's just not fun. It's old and stuffy. - Originally Posted by BabWryter on Kenzerco.com | |
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Sulaco
Underboss
1605 Posts
| | 05/31/2007 9:47 AM |
| Posted By wicked cool on 05/31/2007 9:28 AM
does
anyone else miss the old roll a 1 and thres a chance you can lose your
weapon or even hit a pary member. does anyone house rule this in 3.5
and if so how
Hell no. High-level fighters already get the
stinky end of the stick as it is, so I see no value in introducing a
rule that singles them out for further punishment and humiliation.
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Champion of the Gelatinous Cube. Nemesis of Gnomes and Dinosaurs.
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. ~ Terry Pratchett | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 05/31/2007 10:17 AM |
| Nope. In my opinion, this kind of rule hurts PCs more than it hurts NPCs/monsters. Missing on your turn is enough of a penalty. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
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Oryan77
Sergeant
950 Posts
| | 05/31/2007 10:37 AM |
| I've never liked that rule and have never house ruled it. A weaponmaster who uses his weapon as if it was part of his body still has butterfingers after all these years? And he sometimes hits his teammates with his own weapon? I'd be ashamed to call myself a weaponmaster if I occasionally did that.
Naw, I think after slaying demons, devils, dragons, and hundreds of other creatures, you'd know how to hold your weapon so it doesn't fall out of your hand 
When a 1 is rolled, I just try to describe the missed attack in an entertaining way.
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| Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
6234 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 05/31/2007 10:46 AM |
| What Sulaco said. Furthermore, I only have 1's auto-miss on the first attack of a sequence. If you would have still hit them on a 1, it's still good.
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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nyjastul69
Commander
2710 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 05/31/2007 11:06 AM |
| | The funny thing about my situation is that the players wanted to use fumbles, even knowing it would hurt them more. | |
You know, I keep thinking that after the new design team gets done with D&D 4e, D&D won't stand for Dungeons and Dragons anymore, because well, that's just not fun. It's old and stuffy. - Originally Posted by BabWryter on Kenzerco.com | |
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zenthrus
Commander
4592 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 05/31/2007 12:52 PM |
| We used critical fumble rules through 2nd edition and through 3.0. Now we ban critical fumble rules. Natural 1 = miss. No other penalties.
During a one-off we had a TPK from a string of natural 1s followed by weapons flying out of players' hands, attacks redirecting at other PCs, and weapons breaking (i.e. bowstrings). There is a good reason that critical fumbles are an optional rather than a default rule. | |
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Knight of the Large Dire Chicken
Have/Want List
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 05/31/2007 1:43 PM |
| Posted By nyjastul69 on 05/31/2007 11:06 AM
The funny thing about my situation is that the players wanted to use fumbles, even knowing it would hurt them more. Hey, it's all good if your group wants it. If the group likes it, there is no wrong decission.
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Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
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vanrulzz
Underboss
2294 Posts
¯\(°_o)/¯
| | 05/31/2007 8:02 PM |
| | i like it, but it doesnt necessarily mean you lose your weapon or hit your teammate. just think of something creative that still harms them a little bit and they actually have fun with it. | |
TENTACLES!!!!!
STRANGE TEMPLES!!!!
FREE PIE!!!!
IM CRZY KEWL!!!! | |
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realmaster
Underboss
1892 Posts
Home of the 2002 Winter Olympics
| | 05/31/2007 8:06 PM |
| | hate it. | |
Thanks, realmaster. Let's split up!!!!!
RIP Gary Gygax 1938-2008
Unhallowed vindicated champion: van richten
Successful trades:72
Trades in progress:0
Have issues with:1 burning_kazuki
Bad trades:0
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vanrulzz
Underboss
2294 Posts
¯\(°_o)/¯
| | 05/31/2007 8:09 PM |
| Posted By realmaster on 05/31/2007 8:06 PM
hate it.
first of all, your evil. 2nd of all, your at 1337 posts. feel proud of yourself. | |
TENTACLES!!!!!
STRANGE TEMPLES!!!!
FREE PIE!!!!
IM CRZY KEWL!!!! | |
|
realmaster
Underboss
1892 Posts
Home of the 2002 Winter Olympics
| | 05/31/2007 8:13 PM |
| Posted By vanrulzz on 05/31/2007 8:09 PM Posted By realmaster on 05/31/2007 8:06 PM
hate it. first of all, your evil. 2nd of all, your at 1337 posts. feel proud of yourself.
what does that mean?
I have always offered to give up critical hits in a campaign if the dm would allow me to get away from those famous fumble charts. I really hate them. | |
Thanks, realmaster. Let's split up!!!!!
RIP Gary Gygax 1938-2008
Unhallowed vindicated champion: van richten
Successful trades:72
Trades in progress:0
Have issues with:1 burning_kazuki
Bad trades:0
References: I have given up on creating a link down here so you will have to click the green shield on the left and I hope that it works for you. Sometimes it does not work for me. | |
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wicked cool
Underboss
2017 Posts
| | 06/01/2007 5:51 AM |
| | why have critical 1's just be for fighters or even attack rolls. how about a wizards touch attack | |
The ROCK layeth the smacketh down. Long live Farscape
Vindicated-CHAMPION of the INTELLECT DEVOURER
i will change my avatar when martin completes dances with dragons | |
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kestrel.ca
Underboss
1669 Posts
| | 06/01/2007 7:04 AM |
| I understand that fighters with their greater number of attack rolls will see more 1`s. I also like fumbles, as they add a little flavour.
I do NOT use the "oops, you it your buddy or yourself" fumble -- that one's just too mean. I restrict myself to falling (foot slipped on the floor), dropping weapon (grip was too bloody/sweaty, etc), provoking attack of opportunity (stumbled on your last maneuver), weapon damage (bow string snaps, weapon hits wall, etc.). In every case, though, the fumbler gets to make a saving throw (which does NOT scale with charcter level) to avoid suffering the consequences. The chances of a high level fighter dropping his weapon, even with is greater number of attacks, is actually less than a low level fighter whose saves are not as reliable. | |
Completed Trades/Transactions: 91 || Pending Trades: 0 || Bad Trades: 3 (Chaotic Good x2, MackeyV) | |
| Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
6234 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 06/01/2007 8:35 AM |
| I had a group 3-4 years ago that you had to confirm a fumble, just like a crit. So, follow up that 1 with a three, and something bad is likely to happen. Follow it up with a 17, you should be fine.
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
|
GuJiaXian
Sergeant
636 Posts
Holladay, Utah
| | 06/01/2007 9:02 AM |
| | My campaign's house rules suggest that you have to "confirm" a critical fumble, though we only have bad things happen if you roll a second 1. Doesn't happen very often, but when it does, it makes for memorable moments. | |
"Clearly a case of too many hunchbacks and not enough mad scientists..." | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 06/01/2007 11:25 AM |
| first of all, your evil. 2nd of all, your at 1337 posts. feel proud of yourself.
what does that mean?
That's a very "leet (l33t, 1337)" number of posts. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
9946 Posts
United States
| | 06/03/2007 5:54 AM |
| I see two problems.
The first is the probability thing. A character shouldn't drop a sword every twentieth swing. And, for those that use rather brutal critical fumble tables, a character shouldn't have a chance to cut off his own arm, or lop off the head of an ally, or whatever, every twentieth swing.
The second is the speed of the game. The more dice you're rolling, the slower the game gets. Sure, there are only so many natural 1 rolls during combat during a playing session, but it still adds up.
If we used d% instead of d20 to determine whether an attack hits, then rolling a 1 on d% might be a fair probability of a critical failure of some sort during combat. In this case, the likelihood of both the in-game occurance and the need for an extra roll is substantially more rare, and therefore less of a problem in the game.
Dave
PS 1337 is goofy, messed-up, cryptographic techno babble for "LEET" (the 1 looks a little like an "L", the 3 looks like a backwards "E" etc.), and "leet" is short for "elite." As in "I are teh 1337 and you are teh n00b." | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Wraithborne
Commander
3427 Posts
West Virginia
| | 06/03/2007 8:29 AM |
| Posted By Vrecknidj on 06/03/2007 5:54 AM
Sure, there are only so many natural 1 rolls during combat during a playing session, but it still adds up.
Dave
PS 1337 is goofy, messed-up, cryptographic techno babble for "LEET" (the 1 looks a little like an "L", the 3 looks like a backwards "E" etc.), and "leet" is short for "elite." As in "I are teh 1337 and you are teh n00b."
My personal record is 15 in a session that ran about 8 hours. Rolled 12 20's in the same session. Made for some interesting times.
It's not 1337 5p34k, but I always preferred nubz. Morphs nicely into nubzorz too.
Steering back to the topic at hand, we've always used fumbles, but I've decided that I'm not going to use them the next time I DM. | |
Hey Woman, Hey Woman!! Listen here. Since your ol' man ain't got no heart, maybe you'd like to see a real man. I bet you stay up late every night dreamin' you had a real man, don't ya'? I tell you what, bring your pretty little self over to my apartment tonight and I'll show you a real man!
Ghouls: 1 Player Characters: 0 | |
| Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
6234 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 06/03/2007 9:22 AM |
| Here's an interesting thing I just learned. I joined a new Saturday game, and the DM has what's called a goodness dice.
You rol a 20 or a 1. He rolls a D6. if he rolls a 6 on your 20, better stuff happens than usual.
If he rolls a 1 on your 1, then some sort of fumble happens. We played about 6 1/2 hours last night, with 9 guys and 5 combats, and there were a 2 bad 1's (reinforcements showed up for the bad guys) but the two good twenty's were freakin swet. | |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 06/03/2007 12:46 PM |
| | That's a neat rule. Personally, I dislike stuff that slows down the game, but that sounds like it could be fun. Does it only affect the PCs or the NPC/monsters as well? | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
| Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
6234 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 06/04/2007 7:52 AM |
| You know, it hasn't come up yet. I imagine just the PC's, to give that Heroic success/Dramatic failure feel.
| |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
|
warty_nosed_goblin
Underboss
1384 Posts
| | 06/04/2007 10:04 AM |
| heh, I was DMing a solo one-off adventure for a friend the other day. Now one thing about my friend is that he never rolls numbers between about 6 and 13 on a d20. With him, its pretty much always great or terrible. So he was rolling some really crappy numbers for search/spot. I told him his character got a headache
One possible way to handle critical fumbles would be this:
if somebody rolls a one on an attack, have them try to roll under their Base Attack bonus (without any modifiers on the role). If they do it, nothing bad happens (besides missing), if they don't, they critically fumble.
This would I think actually be worse for the wizards in some ways since they have such a horrid BAB that they would fail the confirm roll fairly often.
The downsides are that its really hard on low level characters, and its an inversion of the general 3rd ed. philosophy of rolling above a number to succeed. | |
Call me: W.N. Gobo!
originally posted by grim:
While he is clearly insane, he does have a point. | |
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GuJiaXian
Sergeant
636 Posts
Holladay, Utah
| | 06/04/2007 11:42 AM |
| Posted By warty_nosed_goblin on 06/04/2007 10:04 AM
heh, I was DMing a solo one-off adventure for a friend the other day. Now one thing about my friend is that he never rolls numbers between about 6 and 13 on a d20. With him, its pretty much always great or terrible. So he was rolling some really crappy numbers for search/spot. I told him his character got a headache
Our roleplaying group has a classic example of this. It was actually using the older WoD rules, in the Werewolf setting. One of the players was searching a basement and critically failed his search check. When the storyteller asked for the result of his roll, the player looked up and said with complete seriousness, "I see bread." Ever since then a failed search or spot roll (even in D&D) results in someone piping with with, "You see bread!"
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"Clearly a case of too many hunchbacks and not enough mad scientists..." | |
| Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
6234 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 06/05/2007 8:32 AM |
| Posted By warty_nosed_goblin on 06/04/2007 10:04 AM
heh, I was DMing a solo one-off adventure for a friend the other day. Now one thing about my friend is that he never rolls numbers between about 6 and 13 on a d20. With him, its pretty much always great or terrible. So he was rolling some really crappy numbers for search/spot. I told him his character got a headache
One possible way to handle critical fumbles would be this:
if somebody rolls a one on an attack, have them try to roll under their Base Attack bonus (without any modifiers on the role). If they do it, nothing bad happens (besides missing), if they don't, they critically fumble.
This would I think actually be worse for the wizards in some ways since they have such a horrid BAB that they would fail the confirm roll fairly often.
The downsides are that its really hard on low level characters, and its an inversion of the general 3rd ed. philosophy of rolling above a number to succeed. You could roll a BAB check, making the DC 20... same chance of success/failure, but same "positive" outlook.
| |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
|
gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 06/05/2007 10:09 AM |
| | It's pretty hard to come up with a rule that perfectly covers everyone and every situation. It's the poblem with any simulation or abstraction. In this case, if you are going to use a fumble rule, you have to decide what it is you want to capture by including it and just accept the fact that it fails in certain regards. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
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