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Lab Monkey
Commander
4131 Posts
    
 | | 06/12/2007 1:20 PM |
| I'm unhappy with the concept of casters that prepare spells daily. I find that the in game time spent looking up and selecting spells significantly slows down game play. I also don't like that divine casters get to know the entirity of their spell lists. As new suppliments are released the amount of spells known by a cleric or druid is absolutely overwhelming. Therefore I'd like to switch my campaigns (assuming I can get a new one going) over to a spontaneous casting system.Â
Obviously this offers no problems for the sorcerer, bard, warmage, beguiler, duskblade, etc. In fact, the increasing numbers of spontaneous casting classes may indicate that this system is the future of D&D.
For the cleric and druid, unearthed arcana offers a nice system for spontaneous casting. Here's a description for those that aren't familiar with it:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/spontaneousDivineCasters.htm
I plan to house rule that system in with all good clerics having access to the Healing Domain. I'm not concerned with trampling on the Favored Soul's toes, or the DL Mystic's, because these classes have never been played in my campaigns.
The problem comes in with Wizards, Rangers and Paladins (as well as the myriad of prestige classes which grant a prepared spell list).
For wizards I'm struggling keeping a distinction between them and sorcerers. I want Int based arcane casting with some flavor distinctions between them and sorcerers. I'm just not sure if spontaneous casting will work for this class. The key would be to come up with an appropriate balance between number of spells known and number of spells per day that keeps them competitive and balanced with the sorcerer. As a result I may keep the old style spell preparation for this class.
For paladins and rangers, the key is to determine an appropriate number of spells known. One suggestion I've found is to make equal their spells known the number of spells per day (before ability adjustment) plus one. Thus a 14th level ranger would know 3 1st level spells, 2 2nd level spells, 2 3rd level spells and 1 4th level spell. Alternatively it could just equal the number of spells per day with ability score adjustments included (but that makes magic ability enhancements a problem).Â
Anyway, any suggestions on how best to impliment this would be appreciated. I'm especially interested in your thoughts on the wizard, paladin and ranger.
Cheers,
LM
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GuJiaXian
Sergeant
636 Posts
Holladay, Utah
| | 06/12/2007 1:23 PM |
| | Take a look at Unearthed Arcana. Doesn't the book have a whole section on converting to a spell point system? Spell points mean that all spellcasters are essentially spontaneous casters. | |
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Lab Monkey
Commander
4131 Posts
| | 06/12/2007 1:44 PM |
| Posted By GuJiaXian on 06/12/2007 1:23 PM
Take a look at Unearthed Arcana. Doesn't the book have a whole section on converting to a spell point system? Spell points mean that all spellcasters are essentially spontaneous casters. Thanks for the suggestion. Here's a link to the description of those rules:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/spellPoints.htm
While this would be fine for making everyone semi-spontaneous, it doesn't address with the issue of the absolutely enormous spell list that divine casters have access to (which is what really slows down game play in my experience). I will give it a close look to see if I can make it work.
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GuJiaXian
Sergeant
636 Posts
Holladay, Utah
| | 06/12/2007 1:53 PM |
| I know exactly what you mean (concerning the huge spell lists). The thing that I've come to see is that while a cleric might have access to 100 different spells, only 15 of those are genuinely useful in most situations. Heck, half the time I end up playing sorcerers instead of wizards simply because I only want/need access to the small selection of spells.
Yes, I know: that doesn't solve your problem at all. I'd recommend limiting which books your players have access to. The PHB has a good selection of spells, and the average player really doesn't need additional spells from the SC, the Complete series, Dragon magazine, and more.
Also, the cleric in my current campaign pulls spells from the PHB and the SC. However, he has a "standard" selection of spells that he prepares, unless the circumstances dictate otherwise (which they often don't). So, resting (and regaining spells) in-game goes pretty quickly. | |
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Richard II
Commander
3663 Posts
| | 06/12/2007 2:04 PM |
| | Have you tried replacing your clerics with favoured souls? They're just a spontaneous divine caster from Complete Divine iirc. | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 06/12/2007 2:26 PM |
| I'll think a little more on your question, but I find it funny, playing a lot of clerics, that I have the reverse feeling. I'm always annoyed at how much come out for wizards and the few new spells that come out for cleric. It seems like every publication has a lot more spells for sorc/wizards han clerics. As mentioned before, I usually have a standard set and only go searching when a specific situation demands it.
Are you planning on giving all these spontaneous casters the typical restrictions with metamagic? Maybe a way to balance wizards is to give them the same number of spells as a sorceror but give them rapid metamagic as well. Not positive on this. | |
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kestrel.ca
Underboss
1669 Posts
| | 06/12/2007 4:24 PM |
| In terms of game time, when I play a caster, I make a list of all the spells I could conceivably need, including casting time, range, target, description etc., and print off the spreadsheet. That way, choosing/casting/changing spells is quick and doesn't waste game time.
For you main question about spontaneous casting, I have some ideas, but am too tired to relay them coherently. I'll see if I can get them in order a little later. | |
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Corim Danex
Warlord
6562 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 06/12/2007 7:17 PM |
| | One solution is to not allow "looking up" to select spells during sessions. Tell the players that if they do not have sufficient familiarity with the spells in advance of the gaming sessions that they are not allowed game time to choose. They can look through lists of spell names and select spells, but they cannot look up the spells for selection. The only reason that the spell should be consulted is to verify that it is being cast properly. If they want to have quick notes on spells available to remind them of their function that is one thing, but to read through spells in selection process simply takes too long. | |
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madda
Sergeant
714 Posts
| | 06/13/2007 4:44 AM |
| Here's another idea for you. In my group, I do not allow divine spellcasters to cast just any divine spell they found.
Every cleric and druid have access to the spells described in the PHB. Their casting (incanation, deity plead,...) is common knowledge. Spells in other spell lists, and not generally available. The ability to cast them must be somehow granted to the player. Either by studying from a master, researching, or the like. This has the obvious result of limiting (drastically) the spell selection but it also opens a way to motivate divine casters to interact with their churches or groves or involve them in the plot and also control their ability in (what my players consider as) a subtle way.
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notserious
Sneak
114 Posts
| | 06/13/2007 12:51 PM |
| I'm all with Madda on this one - players (clerics, druids, paladins, sorcerers, wizards, rangers, plus PrC's and any supllemental classes that get brought in) have access to PHB material and need to make their case for inclusion of other material. This adds value to found scrolls as they increase the supply of spells (at my discretion) otherwise, players have to figure out what they want (which means they'll know it and won't need to look it up) and role-play how they acquire it.
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Alisair Longreach
Sneak
118 Posts
Denmark
| | 06/18/2007 1:41 PM |
| Hi, Labmonkey. Like you, I don't like the limitations of spell preparation so I will give you my solutions to the problem.
In my campaigns I have houseruled a fast hack that makes Druids and Wizards able to cast spontaneously. It's simple and elegant. Prepared spells can be cast spontaneously. As an example a 2nd level Wizard can prepare three 1st level spells per day. These spells can then be cast spontaneously as if they were a Sorcerer's Spells Known.
I used to apply this hack to Clerics too but lately I designed a spontaneously casting Cleric that is not a Divine Sorcerer variant class or a rehash of the Favored Soul or Shugenja.
My Cleric has a set of Basic Cleric Spells that can be cast spontaneously and Domain spells that must be prepared. This means that I redesigned the Cleric spells list and the Domains so that there are no overlap between to two sets of spells.
I reduced the Cleric spells list as it is in the PHB by removing the spells with an alignment descriptor, some spells with an elemental effect, spells powered by negative energy, the Summon Monster spells, the Symbol spells and few I considered to be exclusive Domain spells.
The Domains I redesigned by replacing Basic Cleric spells with other appropriate spells from the Spell Compendium, Player's Handbook II and Complete Champion, Scoundrel and Mage.
I can email my house rules document to those who might be interested. | |
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