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kyrin
Commander
3152 Posts
    
 | | 07/14/2007 8:22 PM |
| So I saw this thing in the Magic Item Compendium. What's the deal? Where can I find details about this?
JIM
aka kyrin | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 07/14/2007 10:07 PM |
| In the Magic Item Compendium, under the tools section.
It's a neat item: a wand with unlimited charges that any arcane caster can use, regardless of if it's on a person's spell list, but only 2 times per day. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
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maijstral
Underboss
2105 Posts
| | 07/15/2007 8:51 AM |
| Its an Eberron item though for all you haters 
Developed during the war for battle casters, as gss_000 said unlimited charges but only 2 uses a day. It can only hold up to 3rd level spells and maximum caster level 6th. | | | |
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Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7146 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 07/15/2007 9:49 AM |
| Huh, looks cool, what's the price range on it? It seems like it wouldn't be worth the cost compared to just buying the regular one with 50 charges...
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maijstral
Underboss
2105 Posts
| | 07/15/2007 10:12 AM |
| | well the wand is built around an Eberron shard but you could houserule another way in another setting. creating the wands is the same cost as a regular wand of the same type but an extra 100 GP's to attune the crystal to the spell. | | | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 07/15/2007 10:22 AM |
| Posted By maijstral on 07/15/2007 8:51 AM Its an Eberron item though for all you haters Developed during the war for battle casters, as gss_000 said unlimited charges but only 2 uses a day. It can only hold up to 3rd level spells and maximum caster level 6th.
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Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
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nyjastul69
Commander
2710 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 07/15/2007 10:48 AM |
| | Is this item only in the Compendium, or is it in an Eberron book? I have several Eberron books, but not the compendium. | |
You know, I keep thinking that after the new design team gets done with D&D 4e, D&D won't stand for Dungeons and Dragons anymore, because well, that's just not fun. It's old and stuffy. - Originally Posted by BabWryter on Kenzerco.com | |
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maijstral
Underboss
2105 Posts
| | 07/15/2007 11:01 AM |
| | Its in the Eberron campaign setting book, listed under Eberron shard items in the magic item section. | | | |
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nyjastul69
Commander
2710 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 07/15/2007 11:04 AM |
| Posted By maijstral on 07/15/2007 11:01 AM
Its in the Eberron campaign setting book, listed under Eberron shard items in the magic item section.
I missed it then. I had just looked there. Thanks. | |
You know, I keep thinking that after the new design team gets done with D&D 4e, D&D won't stand for Dungeons and Dragons anymore, because well, that's just not fun. It's old and stuffy. - Originally Posted by BabWryter on Kenzerco.com | |
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kyrin
Commander
3152 Posts
| | 07/15/2007 12:16 PM |
| Hmmm... so this would let a specialist wizard cast a spell in a forbidden school?
JIM
aka kyrin | |
My Have/Want List <-|-|->My Trades and References 1 <-|-|->My Trades and References 2
Pronounce "Drow" like "crow"! Viva la Revolution! We Shall Overcome!
Vindicated Champion of the Stirge! Vindicated Champion of the Githyanki Knight on Red Dragon!!
Vindicated Champion of the Androsphinx! | |
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zenthrus
Commander
4836 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 07/15/2007 12:53 PM |
| Posted By kyrin on 07/15/2007 12:16 PM
Hmmm... so this would let a specialist wizard cast a spell in a forbidden school?
JIM
aka kyrin No. Specialist wizards are always prohibited from using any spell-trigger or spell-completion item containing a spell from their prohibited schools. On the other hand, though, a bard could create an eternal wand of Cure Light Wounds then give it to a wizard or sorcerer (arcane spell not on the wiz/sorc spell list).
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 07/15/2007 5:21 PM |
| | I don't think this is the correct interpretation. The description of the wand specifically says it can be used by any caster regardless of whether it is on a caster's spell list. It's exactly the same as a bard using a wand with a sorc/wiz only spell. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
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nyjastul69
Commander
2710 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 07/17/2007 7:13 AM |
| | Doesn't the Eberron description state arcane casters and spells? Is the Compendium description identical? | |
You know, I keep thinking that after the new design team gets done with D&D 4e, D&D won't stand for Dungeons and Dragons anymore, because well, that's just not fun. It's old and stuffy. - Originally Posted by BabWryter on Kenzerco.com | |
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zenthrus
Commander
4836 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 07/17/2007 9:46 AM |
| "any character who can cast arcane spells can activate the wand to use the spell contained in it, regardless of whether or not the spell appears on his class spell list."
"Spells of the prohibited school or schools are not available to the wizard, and she can't even cast such spells from scrolls or fire them from wands."
Using the wording from school specialization, the spells are always on your class list, just aren't available for selection. However, specialist wizards are always prohibited from using those spells (specifically via scrolls and wands). The Eternal Wand wording does not open a back door for specialists to start using prohibited items since the spells were already on the class spell list of the specialist wizard, but are prohibited from being used.
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 07/17/2007 12:25 PM |
| I disagree. Bards have the exact same prohibition from using arcane scrolls of spells that are not in their spell list. The wording under specializing is a just the best way to say spells are no longer in the class's spell list and therefore can't use spell trigger items.
Here, the order of appearance of the rules is important. The Eternal Wand description trumps the specialized rule because it came later. Had they meant it not to, they would have put that exception explicitly in the description. Therefore, it does open the back door, in the same way it does for other classes. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
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zenthrus
Commander
4836 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 07/17/2007 2:58 PM |
| Posted By gss_000 on 07/17/2007 12:25 PM
I disagree. Bards have the exact same prohibition from using arcane scrolls of spells that are not in their spell list. The wording under specializing is a just the best way to say spells are no longer in the class's spell list and therefore can't use spell trigger items.
The difference is that specialist wizards still have those spells on their spell list. The spell list does not change, only the wizard's access to certain spells.
The entry for specialization for wizards specifically excludes defining prohibited spells as spells no longer on a spell list. Those spells never leave the spell list; instead, they are not available due to a class restriction. The Eternal Wand specifically references class spell lists (i.e. casting spells from another arcane class spell list) but does not reference anything about allowing access to prohibited spells.Â
Semantically there is a world of difference between what is written in the Specialization sidebar and your interpretation of it.
Since a case for interpretation can be made rules it likes you sees it 
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Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 07/18/2007 11:13 AM |
| Since a case for interpretation can be made rules it likes you sees it [Tongue]
I should have put this in my last post, too. Glad you did.
I went onto other boards to see if there was a ruling on this, because I'm happy to follow either way (although, of course, I feel my interpretation is the correct one  just kidding). I think I'll ask sage advice this and see what he says. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
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zenthrus
Commander
4836 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 07/18/2007 11:49 AM |
| | Sage advice might completely disagree with me. That's fine. The "feel" of the item is that the intent was to allow a loophole for specialists to use prohibited spells. Unfortunately (as happens quite often), the implementation doesn't quite work to support the intent. | |
Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
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ckissee
Underboss
1431 Posts
KD :)
| | 07/18/2007 12:27 PM |
| | My problem with these wands is that the cost does not take into consideration material components. For example, an Eternal Wand of Identify would cost the same as an Eternal Wand of Mage Armor. I disagree with this, and have modified the costs for the wand in my game as a result. | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 07/18/2007 12:40 PM |
| Posted By zenthrus on 07/18/2007 11:49 AM
Sage advice might completely disagree with me. That's fine. The "feel" of the item is that the intent was to allow a loophole for specialists to use prohibited spells. Unfortunately (as happens quite often), the implementation doesn't quite work to support the intent.
I was assuming he would disagree with me, as he often does with issues like this.Â
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Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
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Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 07/18/2007 1:04 PM |
| I would follow Zenthrus' interpretation because i feel that nothing should allow a specialist wizard around the prohibited school restriction. I also feel that the intent of the item is to allow access to other spell lists than your own, but still you can't cast from prohibited schools or work around other class-specific restrictions. It's like if a paladin who isn't allowed to cast evil aligned spells was allowed to cast wizard spells through a magic item, he still wouldn't be allowed to cast evil-aligned wizard spells through that item IMO. I often feel that school prohibition is similar to that, i.e. that those schools are "evil" or even just plain won't work for the specialist wizard.
Sky
p.s.: some DMs might rule that paladins and good clerics can cast evil spells, that's fine and it's not the point of my post, let's just assume they can't for this discussion.
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The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
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Lead Moderator
LCS
Underboss
1867 Posts
| | 07/18/2007 10:27 PM |
| Posted By ckissee on 07/18/2007 12:27 PM
My problem with these wands is that the cost does not take into consideration material components. For example, an Eternal Wand of Identify would cost the same as an Eternal Wand of Mage Armor. I disagree with this, and have modified the costs for the wand in my game as a result.
I think it was an oversight. It's certainly reasonable to use the calculation from the "Estimating Gold Piece Values" table on pg 285, which says that an expensive material component is added to the cost of an unlimited item with a daily use limit as if it had 50 charges.
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| Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7146 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 07/19/2007 10:50 AM |
| If this pops up in the sage article, or you get an answer, let us know, of course...
| |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 07/19/2007 3:49 PM |
| | Definitely. I'm really curious now because I can see it both ways. A clarification in their intent when writing this, even if it doesn't change anything for anybody else because it's your game, you do what you want, would be cool for me. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
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