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Subject: How do you decide stats?

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Kaya Kenobi
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08/10/2007 2:14 AM  
I have seen 4d6, drop the lowest, 4d6 reroll once, roll two sets choose one or the other set....

I do these, depending on the campaign I run:

4d6 reroll 1s - minor powergame
3d12 reroll 1-3 (I seem to get a nice array of 8-24 with this) - godlike campaign
5d6 reroll 1s - major powergame
2d20 reroll 1-5 - this is interesting, a 6 CHA and a 20 Str, perfect warrior.

What have you experimented with?

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08/10/2007 11:07 AM  
I have players roll 4d6 rerolling 1s, and take out the lowest roll. They can place the stats wherever they want.

If their scores aren't at least average rolls, I'll let them reroll the entire thing.

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08/10/2007 11:17 AM  
We've begun converting to the point buy system.  It seems to be fairly ballanced.  We've had a problem with one character far outclassing the rest of the party with any of the random dice schemes.  Once had a character with 4 - 18s and two average stats.  He was so powerful vs. the rest of us that it made it hard to DM.

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08/10/2007 12:12 PM  
In the game i DM:

Players roll three full sets of stats, and keep the on they want. Each set is rolled in order: S, D, C, I, W, CH. 4d6 keep the 3 best. You can switch two scores with each other, once.

What i like about this system is that some players sometimes need to handle a strong stat in a dump-stat. (Though with the switch, the main PC's stat will always be good.) So you'll see some fighters with high INT or WIS or CHA, strong wizards, and so on.

Note that i'll veto a set of stats i consider too strong (e.g. four 18's) or too weak (e.g. not a single stat above 15).

In the game i play in:

Players roll 4d6, keep the 3 best, then organize the stats in any order they want. You can remove two points from one stat to add one point to another, once.

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08/10/2007 12:57 PM  
Used to do the 4d6 drop the lowest one, but that created a weird range of stats at the table. We now only use the point buy system. As said, it's pretty balanced and it's much better for the DM to gauge what reasonable DCs and encounters are because no one player is too powerful or underpowered.

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08/10/2007 1:00 PM  
Oh, and using dice other than d6s really messes up the system. When I didn't know better in my early years I used a d20 for stats and it was amazing how many 16-20 you got.

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08/10/2007 1:04 PM  
Posted By Oryan77 on 08/10/2007 11:07 AM
I have players roll 4d6 rerolling 1s, and take out the lowest roll. They can place the stats wherever they want.

If their scores aren't at least average rolls, I'll let them reroll the entire thing.

My players do the same thing. It results in higher-than-average stats, but the players are playing heroes, not average folk.

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08/10/2007 1:16 PM  
I have players roll 4d6 7times and take out the lowest roll, placing them wherever, usually rolling 3 columns of stats and choosing one column.
Like GuJiaXian said, my players are playing heroes, not average folk.

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08/10/2007 1:23 PM  
Posted By Wraithborne on 08/10/2007 1:16 PM
I have players roll 4d6 7times and take out the lowest roll, placing them wherever, usually rolling 3 columns of stats and choosing one column.
Like GuJiaXian said, my players are playing heroes, not average folk.

4d6? As in, a player could end up with a starting stat of 24?

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08/10/2007 3:46 PM  

4d6 is usually where you are dropping the lowest roll.  Still 18 Max.

 


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08/10/2007 4:57 PM  
Posted By GuJiaXian on 08/10/2007 1:23 PM
Posted By Wraithborne on 08/10/2007 1:16 PM
I have players roll 4d6 7times and take out the lowest roll, placing them wherever, usually rolling 3 columns of stats and choosing one column.
Like GuJiaXian said, my players are playing heroes, not average folk.

4d6? As in, a player could end up with a starting stat of 24?

 
That's what I get for trying to be concise typing one handed with a drowsy baby in the other. Roll 4d6, dropping the lowest number, 7 times, dropping the lowest stat, leaving you with 3-18, but a higher chance of rolling good stats. We typically roll 3 full sets of stats like this and then choose one, with no mixing between the stat columns, which insures some pretty good stats.

The year: 1994. From out of space comes a runaway planet, hurtling between the Earth and the Moon, unleashing cosmic destruction! Man's civilization is cast in ruin!
Two thousand years later, Earth is reborn...
A strange new world rises from the old: a world of savagery, super science, and sorcery. But one man bursts his bonds to fight for justice! With his companions Ookla the Mok and Princess Ariel, he pits his strength, his courage, and his fabulous Sunsword against the forces of evil.
He is Thundarr, the Barbarian!

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08/10/2007 5:08 PM  
We either use a 28 point standard (DMG) buy or roll 4d6 (drop the low) and allocate as you like. Typically, overall bonus of +3 or less gets rerolled (since we always have at least one person who rolls +7 overall or higher).

I prefer the point buy (it's more fair). Our other DM prefers the dice rolls (less aggressive min-maxing).

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08/10/2007 8:09 PM  

I do point buy as a DM, but most of the time when I play, the DM mandates 4D6 drop the lowest. Sometimes reroll ones if it's not going to be droppd.

 

I preferPoint buy, because, in my experience, anytime 4 people roll random stats, you end up with the following:

1 Super Fantastic Man

2 Average Joes

1 Mr. Retardo

 

I've seen it happen too any times, so in th interest of fairness, I usually do point-buy. I they really want to roll, 3D6, no rerolls, no allocation. Play what you get.


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08/11/2007 4:46 AM  
4d6, drop the lowest and put them where you want.

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08/11/2007 10:42 AM  
Sometimes I roll with the 4d6 drop the lowest, sometimes 5d6 drop the 2 lowest.

On occasion to keep things equal I roll 6 stats with one of those above methods, give them to every PC and let them assign them where they choose so everyone is more or less equal.

One of the more creative ways I do it is use one of the 4d6 system myself 50 times and write them down in order and let the PC's choose any 6 taken in the order that they were rolled that they want. That system makes for some interesting characters like a wizard that honed in on one of the 18's for his INT and in doing so wound up with an 18 STR.
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08/11/2007 9:32 PM  
Posted By jacksonm on 08/11/2007 10:42 AM
Sometimes I roll with the 4d6 drop the lowest, sometimes 5d6 drop the 2 lowest.

On occasion to keep things equal I roll 6 stats with one of those above methods, give them to every PC and let them assign them where they choose so everyone is more or less equal.

One of the more creative ways I do it is use one of the 4d6 system myself 50 times and write them down in order and let the PC's choose any 6 taken in the order that they were rolled that they want. That system makes for some interesting characters like a wizard that honed in on one of the 18's for his INT and in doing so wound up with an 18 STR.


I've done that last one before, Sometimes, I just have them roll a precentile, and give them whichever they rolled. But it's been a while.

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08/13/2007 10:00 AM  
Just about all games I've played have used the 4d6, reroll 1's and keep the best three. I personally like this method as it makes for characters that have above average stats. It's my opinion that adventurers should have above average stats.

Done point buys a couple times and I find them unsatisfying. I like rolling dice.

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08/13/2007 10:26 AM  
Posted By Ghendar on 08/13/2007 10:00 AM
Just about all games I've played have used the 4d6, reroll 1's and keep the best three. I personally like this method as it makes for characters that have above average stats. It's my opinion that adventurers should have above average stats.

Done point buys a couple times and I find them unsatisfying. I like rolling dice.


The point to DnD is the dice rolling. I love it a lot and I have seen so many ways people have decided stats. One way a friend of mine did was make a 90 point buy, starting all stats at 3s...

So..

18 (2 for 15 and 16, 3 for 17 and 18.)
16
18
14
14
12

That's a decent rating, allowing for 2 18s, 1 16, and lower numbers that are still above average. It's one of the few point buys I like because it comes close to how dice rolling looks as well when you do the 4d6 reroll all 1s dropping the lowest.

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08/13/2007 10:27 AM  
You wouldn't be unsatisfied with the old Living City system. The way it worked, you could easily have 18, 18, 18, 10, 10, 10 characters.

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08/29/2007 10:44 AM  
We usually roll 4d6 then drop the lowest BUT we have one old guy who is hard core. You roll 3d6 and play what you get in that order meaning roll str first, the dex. then con, etc....We never let him DM much,LOL

I remember playing Elves and Dwarves as a character class..

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08/29/2007 11:08 AM  
We use 4d6, reroll ones (once) and drop the lowest...place em in any order ye want...

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08/29/2007 1:42 PM  
Posted By gss_000 on 08/13/2007 10:27 AM
You wouldn't be unsatisfied with the old Living City system. The way it worked, you could easily have 18, 18, 18, 10, 10, 10 characters.


It did work rather well...

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08/29/2007 5:24 PM  
Point Buy with 28 points. You should be able to get stats to work for all but some of the broken builds.


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08/29/2007 7:26 PM  
4d6, drop the lowest die.

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08/30/2007 5:33 AM  
As a DM I did in the past first have my players Roll 4d6 reroll 1s keep the 3 highest, but after one party had way too powerful stats I learned my lesson and changed to 4d6 roll seven stats keep 3 highest.

I'm now enjoying playing a PC which my DM had everyone roll up stats using 5d6 keep the 3 highest.

I'm new to DDM. But have played D&D for 13 years!



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08/30/2007 10:51 AM  
Bah, someday I'll run a 3D6 straight down, play what you get.

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08/30/2007 12:33 PM  
Posted By Teflon Jeff on 08/30/2007 10:51 AM
Bah, someday I'll run a 3D6 straight down, play what you get.


I've played that way before.....A human fighter with a 12 Str, 9 Dex, 10 Con, 7 Int, 8 Wis, 12 Chr named Smokin' Burntflesh. He drank Greek Fire with Sword Tips in it...Yeah, he was ridiculous, but it was a ridiculous game.

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He is Thundarr, the Barbarian!

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08/30/2007 1:11 PM  
4d6 & drop the lowest, and place them in any order. If the result isn't good enough, redo the whole thing.
At 1E times, we often used the unearthed arcana method (rolling from 3d6 to 9d6 depending on the class and the stat, choosing the 3 best, and doing it only once... It worked surprisingly well because you certainly could get 18s with it, but sometimes you had nasty surprises - it happened to roll 12 out of 9d6... Ouch.)

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08/30/2007 1:14 PM  
Posted By Teflon Jeff on 08/30/2007 10:51 AM
Bah, someday I'll run a 3D6 straight down, play what you get.
That's crazy talk.  If you want players to fight amongst themselves, go with this option.Â


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08/30/2007 6:23 PM  
Posted By gss_000 on 08/30/2007 1:14 PM
Posted By Teflon Jeff on 08/30/2007 10:51 AM
Bah, someday I'll run a 3D6 straight down, play what you get.
That's crazy talk.  If you want players to fight amongst themselves, go with this option.Â


Well, It would be for a gritty, realistic campaign. Possibly Ravenloft, or Kalamar. Nothing fancy or heroic, more grime than glory.

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08/30/2007 11:40 PM  
We tend to use 4d6, drop the lowest. Two rows of 6 stats, pick the row you like best.

Slightly above average character creation, but we're playing with 3 characters instead of 4.

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08/31/2007 10:47 AM  
Posted By Teflon Jeff on 08/30/2007 6:23 PM

Well, It would be for a gritty, realistic campaign. Possibly Ravenloft, or Kalamar. Nothing fancy or heroic, more grime than glory.

Very true.  My point as more the disparity in scores between players can cause major headaches. When one gets lucky with rolls and the other don't, or vice versa, deep resentments can form over time.  I've seen it happen, even felt it a bit myself.  It's why I like point buys.  Even though you get a range and some wild distributions, you can't say the other players were favored.


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08/31/2007 4:55 PM  
Posted By gss_000 on 08/31/2007 10:47 AM
Posted By Teflon Jeff on 08/30/2007 6:23 PM

Well, It would be for a gritty, realistic campaign. Possibly Ravenloft, or Kalamar. Nothing fancy or heroic, more grime than glory.

Very true.  My point as more the disparity in scores between players can cause major headaches. When one gets lucky with rolls and the other don't, or vice versa, deep resentments can form over time.  I've seen it happen, even felt it a bit myself.  It's why I like point buys.  Even though you get a range and some wild distributions, you can't say the other players were favored.


Oh, I agree totally. It's why I almost always use point buy. I've also thought about running a commoner campagn too, and this would work a bit better...

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09/03/2007 1:00 PM  
Point buy. Usually 30 points. In FR, I use a 32 point buy.

I have over 20 years of practicing with rolling dice and I have come to a simple conclusion: Rolling stats makes for unbalanced characters (both overpowered and underpowered) and inevitably some of the players get the shaft.

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09/04/2007 11:59 PM  
I prefer rolling dice (4d6 reroll ones and drop the lowest) but usually go with point buy. Someone always gets hosed with straight dice rolls.

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09/05/2007 2:52 AM  

So I use the 4D6, dropping the lowest dice method. Then replace the lowest score with an 18.

I like the players to have high end stats, it also gets moral up from the off. Giving everyone an 18 makes everyone happy. Plus I play Star Wars RPG more than D&D, and high PC stats keeps the feel of Epic Heroic feel to the game IMHO.

I just wish other GMs would do something similar. In one D20 modern game I played a doctor with his highest stat 11. In an old school D&D game last year the GM used 3D6, rolling in order, ST, Dex, Con, etc. So I had a Barbarian with Str 8, Con 9 - which in my opinion is poor GMing. Still, my PC was the last one of the group to die :)


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09/05/2007 7:09 AM  
Posted By Bail Ohmar on 09/05/2007 2:52 AM

So I use the 4D6, dropping the lowest dice method. Then replace the lowest score with an 18.

I like the players to have high end stats, it also gets moral up from the off. Giving everyone an 18 makes everyone happy. Plus I play Star Wars RPG more than D&D, and high PC stats keeps the feel of Epic Heroic feel to the game IMHO.

I just wish other GMs would do something similar. In one D20 modern game I played a doctor with his highest stat 11. In an old school D&D game last year the GM used 3D6, rolling in order, ST, Dex, Con, etc. So I had a Barbarian with Str 8, Con 9 - which in my opinion is poor GMing. Still, my PC was the last one of the group to die :)



A friend of mine ran a campaign a while back, and we could roll 4D6, drop the lowest, reroll 1's, or 6D4, drop the lowest, reroll 1's.

Yeah, since we were each playing 2 PC's (it was a 5 week campaign before he shipped to basic) we ended up being pretty darn powerful. Like starting 20's and 19's powerful...

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09/05/2007 8:12 AM  

I have an interesting way I like to use for rolling stats.  It lets you adjust your character on the fly and turns stat rolling into a fun game.  The DM can also easily adjust it for power level and it provides for consistant character creation.  Finally it keeps players from having the stereotypical characters. Not every fighter gets their 17-18 assigned to STR,  Dex for rogues, etc  but they can certainly have good stats overall.

Start by writing  the 6 base stats on a sheet of paper  with a bit of space between them.  Then the DM assigns you X amount of dice for rolling stats.  X can be what ever number is fair.  I like to do around 22 for average campaigns, 24 for medium and 28+ for high powered.    Next you take turns picking one of the 6 stats and rolling a D6 for that stat.  You assign that number to the stat and remove that die from the die pool.  Repeat the process with each die choosing to assign it to a stat until the entire pool is empty.   Each stat can have only 3 dice assigned to it, so if you choose to roll another die, it maybe replaces one of the 3 assigned to it if its a better roll.

For example, if you picked a fighter you could start by choosing STR and rolling a D6.  Getting a 4  you set it next to strength.  For the next die you again choose STR and roll a 1.    His current strength is 5.  You then can choose another stat to work on or choose STR again  rolling a 6 giving you a total of 11.   Later on after assigning all your dice you have 2 left and want to improve your strength.   Choosing strength you a roll a 4  and discard the 1 giving you a total of 14.  Finally assigning the last die to STR you roll a 2, and since 4,4, 6 is already higher you just discard the last die.


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09/05/2007 10:49 AM  
Interesting procedure bshugg. I might be inclined to try that to see how it turns out.

Question: you suggest 22 for average campaigns and 24 for medium, i'm unsure i can see the difference. As a point of comparison, how many dice would you say will correspond to the 4d6 keep the lowest technique to obtain a comparable PC power? Though i assume that 24 would be the mathematical answer, in reality the fact that you can assign dice one by one to a new stat might change the actual effect of the die, since for example you can assign 3 dice only to your 2-3 dump stats while using those dice for your stronger abilities.

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09/05/2007 12:53 PM  
You can try rolling a few times with it yourself to see how it works. It's pretty fun as you're character slowly takes shape and you can apply different strategies to it.

22 dice works out to be roughly the same as rolling 4d6 dropping the lowest. It's less dice overall, but you get to selectively remove the worst dice and can avoid "overkill" on rolls. For example rolling 5,5,5 you won't waste a 4th die on the stat unless you really have extra. 26 dice is roughly the same as 4D6 rerolling 1's because it gives you extra dice to target the 1's and 2's you roll and remove them. 28+ doesn't really boost the overall rolls but brings up the dump stats to decent numbers as you can put 4+ dice into each stat.  You will see less 18's and a lot more 14-16's as putting more dice into a stat one at a time has diminishing returns when there's already  5 or 6 showing on each of the 3 dice assigned to it.Â

The difference between 22 and 24  is  usually two stats that roll 1's becoming better.   Important for when you roll  5,5,1 or  similar.   22 you seem to just have enough to get decent stats with every additional roll boosting the raw power of your character.


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