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tirwin Sergeant
 456 Posts



 North Dakota, USA
 | | 08/11/2007 1:07 PM |
| I am wondering if any of you out there have ran the Shackled City Adventure Path? I am currently running the beginning of the adventure and my players are currently delving into the gnome dungeon called Jzadirune. They are currently going on their fourth delve into its depths, and since it can be very deadly for first level PC's they often come up to rest and recover.
My question is how do you handle the church involvement with these delves? Since they were hired by the church of St. Cuthbert to help find the four missing children they often ask these clerics to heal them. Often they can heal their own hit points since they have a cleric and some potions, but the will also ask for help in restoring ability score damage. Since they were hired to do this by the church I kind of have troubles saying no to the PC's, but on the other hand should they be able to use this limitless resource? How would you, or did you handle this in your campaign?
Thanks for any suggestions in advance!
PS - Just thought I should mention how much we are enjoying this adventure early on, the story and environment are great! Highly recommend it so far, although it takes a lot of prep on the DM's part (which is me!) but I enjoy it. | | Here is my have want list: http://www.maxminis.com/hw_list.asp?user=tirwin Successful Trades: Irav222 (x2), Darkfather, Kaya Kenobi, conanb1, dudeeehm, Uk, Master Elminster, tmertz, Shasack, Drewskie, et39100 (x2), Gaddszooks (x4), Romers, Weinbergphp, Vaasic, Navaire, lurch_E_bean, dobblegog, cjmax, jthm, Meds x2, hellfire2, w33zrfan, unmaker, sthig, Eldarion, drowdude, DM Lackey, griffat, eryador, tsech (not sure if this is his screen name?), Jordan, entropysoda, MikeWis, HalifaxDM, Targan, Drakul, wraith428, dmindock, mythoscreature, Tenlado,Chaotic Good, Asteroidjawa, Puggins, Bdog, slapdragon, Drakkengi,WarRabbit(2), Mnpatsfan, Greymouse, Snapdragon, Isondaho, Halofurry, Krush, Ekomega, Amator, Minatoman38, + many new trades recorded by maxminis, and never had a bad trade so please help keep the streak alive, thanks! Harbringer 80/80, Dragoneye 60/60, Archfiends 60/60, Giants of Legend 72/72, Aberrations 60/60, Deathknell 60/60, Angelfire 60/60, Underdark 60/60, War Drums 60/60, War of the Dragon Queen 60/60, Blood War 60/60, Unhallowed 60/60, Night Below 60/60, DoD 60/60, I'm done listing just assume I have them all because I do, thanks. | |
| Wraithborne Commander
 3731 Posts



 West Virginia
 | | 08/11/2007 2:40 PM |
| If it was an occaisional, much needed thing, I would likely let them have it free. If it's more something that they're just abusing(kinda seems that way)then I would let them know that future healings would be deducted from their pay, albeit at a less than standard rate, say 50% or so of what I typically would charge.
Alternatively, a couple of "We're terribly sorry, but there was a huge accident with a caravan/rise of a few wights/wererats/whatever fits and we have no more healing to offer today." | | This new learning amazes me Sir Bedevere. Explain again how sheep's bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes. -King Arthur Life is pain and we have to scrape the joy out of it every chance we get. -Rod Kimble | |
| rokeca Sneak
 136 Posts




 | | 08/12/2007 7:54 AM |
| Shackled City is a great campaign - my group is now over 2/3rds of the way through the adventure path. It has not disappointed. The hardcover suggests (in the Cauldron overview section) giving PCs a 20% discount on spells cast from the Church of St. Cuthbert (using the table in the equipment section of the PHB). This way it isn't a freebee, and since there is a kind of harsh, judgemental side to St. Cuthbert, this seems appropriate - that the church is hiring heroes, but it expects them to be able to stand on their own and there are some consequences to coming to the church for healing. This still allows the church to provide some affordable support though. I had a list of spells available for the day from the church (i.e. 8 CLW, 2 lesser restorations, etc) so the availability of spells wasn't limitless.
The book also suggests providing a 20% discount on potions/scrolls while the PCs stay in the good graces of the church. While I didn't use this in my campaign (house rule that no magic can be purchased - with an elaborate rationale that has it make sense within the setting ethos) I can see it being a useful option for many parties. | | My Trades/References
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| Wraithborne Commander
 3731 Posts



 West Virginia
 | | 08/12/2007 8:15 AM |
| | Ahh, I had no background on the Module itself, having never read it, so my advice was just a generalization. Nice to see it was addressed in the hardcover. | | This new learning amazes me Sir Bedevere. Explain again how sheep's bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes. -King Arthur Life is pain and we have to scrape the joy out of it every chance we get. -Rod Kimble | |
| GuJiaXian Sergeant
 652 Posts



 Roswell, GA
 | | 08/13/2007 8:31 AM |
| My party will be playing the final encounter of The Demonskar Legacy (chapter 5) tomorrow night. Yay, a glabrezu battle! Anyway, my party's experience with Jzadirune was very, very different. They like a good mix of exploration/roleplaying and combat, but the constant, unending secret doors in Jzadirune really annoyed them. In fact, they still talk about how much they hated those early sessions because of the constant "we disarm the gear door, unlock it, and...nothing is inside" factor. If I ran the SCAP again, I'd seriously streamline Jzadirune.
Those annoying gnomes and their stupid penchant for secret doors... | | "Clearly a case of too many hunchbacks and not enough mad scientists..." | |
| Skyscraper Sergeant
 659 Posts



 Montreal
 | | 08/13/2007 1:18 PM |
| It's intersting that you should mention Jzadirune because i started a group through the AP and although the players weren't bored (well, at least they didn't say they were), i wanted to die from boredom! That's because they didn't know yet how long it would take to get all the keys to unlock all the doors! Argh!
Anyway, i was trying to figure out how to cut the bull and skip to the next part when the group sorta stopped playing (10-year couple broke, ...)
Still, i'd like to get people to play in that AP and if i do I'll find a way around Jzadirune or through Jzadirune. That's too much running around for keys for my taste. The question then being: how to compensate for the XP? If time permits i'd like to design a short investigation scenario which would pick up from the gnome keymaker and lead to the kidnapped kid in the underground.
Sky | | The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
| GuJiaXian Sergeant
 652 Posts



 Roswell, GA
 | | 08/13/2007 1:23 PM |
| Well, the key elements for that first chapter (in Jzadirune and the Malachite Fortress) basically boil down to talking with Keygan Ghelve, finding his familiar Starbrow, and then killing the slaver Kazmojen and freeing the children. I guess having Terrem be captured by the beholder is also important.
So, as long as you involve the above elements, anything you do shouldn't disrupt the flow of the campaign/plot. | | "Clearly a case of too many hunchbacks and not enough mad scientists..." | |
| Skyscraper Sergeant
 659 Posts



 Montreal
 | | 08/13/2007 1:50 PM |
| | Actually, i was thinking about keeping Kasmojen and the entire slaver portion intact. Just bail out of Jzadirune. In other words, skip one floor. | | The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
| GuJiaXian Sergeant
 652 Posts



 Roswell, GA
 | | 08/13/2007 2:38 PM |
| | That works. My players would have loved that, in retrospect. | | "Clearly a case of too many hunchbacks and not enough mad scientists..." | |
| tirwin Sergeant
 456 Posts



 North Dakota, USA
 | | 08/13/2007 6:07 PM |
| My player are not worried about finding any keys, they just bash in all the doors so far! This probably has a little to do with why they need so much healing, and it will eventually cost someone their characters life I assume, but so far they have managed to avoid what seems to be at least one inevitable death. I do agree Jzadirune is a bit much for secret doors and traps but this week I made a miniature sized map of the entire players map so that should help to speed things along. Still I need some ideas on how to handle the PC's use of the clerics of St. Cuthbert because if the beginning delves are any indication I have a feeling that my players may begin to rely on their healings for free. And I personally like a limited amount of assistance from outside sources so I need a good reason to deny them the spells they need and they can't provide themselves. Otherwise it's just too easy to survive, and I like the element of danger as it keeps the PC's attention on the events at the table as they have a significant vested interest in what is going on at all times. But at the same time I want them to see their relationship with the church of St. Cuthbert as a worth while one that isn't to be taken advantage of. I do have a rogue in the group that like the five finger discount so there are some who will not hesitate to take advantage of any situation if they see their chance. Luckily they are very good at playing their PC's wisely and realistically so they don't run amuck, but if they see an opportunity that role plays well they will jump at it. This can be fun at times but the using of the Church for excessive healing I think could hurt the tension of the early dungeon delves of Jzadirune. | | Here is my have want list: http://www.maxminis.com/hw_list.asp?user=tirwin Successful Trades: Irav222 (x2), Darkfather, Kaya Kenobi, conanb1, dudeeehm, Uk, Master Elminster, tmertz, Shasack, Drewskie, et39100 (x2), Gaddszooks (x4), Romers, Weinbergphp, Vaasic, Navaire, lurch_E_bean, dobblegog, cjmax, jthm, Meds x2, hellfire2, w33zrfan, unmaker, sthig, Eldarion, drowdude, DM Lackey, griffat, eryador, tsech (not sure if this is his screen name?), Jordan, entropysoda, MikeWis, HalifaxDM, Targan, Drakul, wraith428, dmindock, mythoscreature, Tenlado,Chaotic Good, Asteroidjawa, Puggins, Bdog, slapdragon, Drakkengi,WarRabbit(2), Mnpatsfan, Greymouse, Snapdragon, Isondaho, Halofurry, Krush, Ekomega, Amator, Minatoman38, + many new trades recorded by maxminis, and never had a bad trade so please help keep the streak alive, thanks! Harbringer 80/80, Dragoneye 60/60, Archfiends 60/60, Giants of Legend 72/72, Aberrations 60/60, Deathknell 60/60, Angelfire 60/60, Underdark 60/60, War Drums 60/60, War of the Dragon Queen 60/60, Blood War 60/60, Unhallowed 60/60, Night Below 60/60, DoD 60/60, I'm done listing just assume I have them all because I do, thanks. | |
| GuJiaXian Sergeant
 652 Posts



 Roswell, GA
 | | 08/13/2007 8:42 PM |
| | Well, if your characters keep skipping back to the temple to chat up Jenya for healing, start making it clear that either the temple is clean out of clerics with prepared spells, or perhaps hint that the kidnapped orphans might be sold off to some Underdark-dwelling monstrosity in the meantime. Light the fire under their feet! | | "Clearly a case of too many hunchbacks and not enough mad scientists..." | |
| Skyscraper Sergeant
 659 Posts



 Montreal
 | | 08/14/2007 8:32 AM |
| Posted By rokeca on 08/12/2007 7:54 AM Shackled City is a great campaign - my group is now over 2/3rds of the way through the adventure path. It has not disappointed. The hardcover suggests (in the Cauldron overview section) giving PCs a 20% discount on spells cast from the Church of St. Cuthbert (using the table in the equipment section of the PHB). This way it isn't a freebee, and since there is a kind of harsh, judgemental side to St. Cuthbert, this seems appropriate - that the church is hiring heroes, but it expects them to be able to stand on their own and there are some consequences to coming to the church for healing. This still allows the church to provide some affordable support though. I had a list of spells available for the day from the church (i.e. 8 CLW, 2 lesser restorations, etc) so the availability of spells wasn't limitless.
The book also suggests providing a 20% discount on potions/scrolls while the PCs stay in the good graces of the church. While I didn't use this in my campaign (house rule that no magic can be purchased - with an elaborate rationale that has it make sense within the setting ethos) I can see it being a useful option for many parties. I think rokeca answers the question according to the "official" module suggestion (as per his post repeated above), i.e. St-Cuthbert is not a goodie-two-shoes that will start giving out healing to adventurers his church hires, he'll expect that they be strong and capable of taking care of their own stuff. If his clerics are to give out healing every day, might as well get the job done themselves! Still, since there is pressure from the community in finding the missing children and since Jenya is in a good mood and since the PCs have acted courteously, and even though she *did* give them potions of Cure Moderate Wounds at the outset (those are expensive items for level 1 PCs), and even though she realizes that they are apparently trying to clear out the entire underdark instead of quickly and efficiently finding the kids like they're supposed to do, she'll accept to give them a 20% discount on healing.
If she had given healing for free up to now, just state that she feels the PCs are being inefficient and free healing is over as this is getting to cost much more than expected. St-Cuthbert's power is not for anyone to give or take. If they say that they have no choice to find the children but kill the monsters etc..., she can answer that other adventurers have been asking for work lately and they're not asking for free healing ("no one asks for free healing except beggars, mind you. We haven't hired beggars, have we? I thought we were paying for capable adventurers...").
Does this satisfy you? If not, please say why and we can try to address your concerns.
| | The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
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