Mjollnir
Underboss
1388 Posts
    
Canary Islands - Spain
 | | 08/20/2007 5:33 PM |
| I remember high level adventures in 2nd ed. which were released just before 3.0 edition like Vortex of Madness and The Apocalypse Stone. I could even add one of the greatest adventure ever: A Paladin in Hell. So now I wonder which apotheosis keep WotC in January or Febraury or March or April 2008 just before the release of the 4th ed. PHB in May...
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Champion of the Molydeus
Vindicated Blood War Called Shot: Cornugon (Horned Devil)
Icons Called Shot: Tarrasque
Vindicated Dungeon of Dread Called Shot: Mind Flayer
Against the Giants Called Shot: Uncommon Fire Giant
Demonweb Called Shot: Myrlochar
Feywild Called Shot: Uncommon Male Ogre
"Sé que me acusan de soberbia, y tal vez de misantropía, y tal vez de locura. Tales acusaciones (que yo castigaré a su debido tiempo) son irrisorias." - Jorge Luis Borges
I sell my collection at:
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2623 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 08/20/2007 5:56 PM |
| | I've heard A Paladin in Hell was a good adventure. What's the adventure centered around? An evil paladin? Getting a paladin out of some evil plane? | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
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arbados
Underboss
1376 Posts
New York, USA
| | 08/20/2007 9:20 PM |
| Thats quite an interesting point there. At the end of 2nd edition I made an entire world shattering change in my game to account for the new gods and such. It is still an ongoing rememberance to my players recalling the days when the gods fell silent only to then have the new gods such as Pelor, Wee Jas, Hextor, etc come around. It was a long drawn out thing and my players never had a clue that it was all in preparation for the 3rd edition.Â
I have already started to ponder what to do with the gnomes. I have a funny feeling that they will be eliminated in 4th edition as a core race. I have a player who is a gnome and as a DM I am very big with that race. I am preparing a big event to possibly wipe out this race with the players being on a mission to stop it. Should be fun!!!
In truth I was initially very skeptical about 4th edition, however if it improves upon the current game system then I am ok with it. There have been some very interesting things brought up in their presentation that I like especially "No Dead Levels." I have spent at least $2000 on 3.0 and 3.5 sup[plements, however, I don't look at it as wasted money for it was all put to good use in the 7+ years I have used most of the books.Â
Sorry to hijack the thread here at the end, so back to the topic at hand....I do hope that they come out with something to end the world as the previous modules (or should I say adventures...old school as you can tell). | |
Give me more MIND FLAYERS! | |
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Mjollnir
Underboss
1388 Posts
Canary Islands - Spain
| | 08/21/2007 1:09 AM |
| Posted By ShadowLord XT on 08/20/2007 5:56 PM
I've heard A Paladin in Hell was a good adventure. What's the adventure centered around? An evil paladin? Getting a paladin out of some evil plane?
To rescue the spirit of a paladin and even a temple of good from Hell itself. Try to have a look at it, you will not be dissappointed.
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Champion of the Molydeus
Vindicated Blood War Called Shot: Cornugon (Horned Devil)
Icons Called Shot: Tarrasque
Vindicated Dungeon of Dread Called Shot: Mind Flayer
Against the Giants Called Shot: Uncommon Fire Giant
Demonweb Called Shot: Myrlochar
Feywild Called Shot: Uncommon Male Ogre
"Sé que me acusan de soberbia, y tal vez de misantropía, y tal vez de locura. Tales acusaciones (que yo castigaré a su debido tiempo) son irrisorias." - Jorge Luis Borges
I sell my collection at:
http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/54/view/topic/postid/801203/Default.aspx | |
|
The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10885 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 08/21/2007 4:00 AM |
| Posted By arbados on 08/20/2007 9:20 PM
 "No Dead Levels."Â
What exactly does that mean? Every PC gets something every level as far as I know. | |
No Hazel, no peace 
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
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nyjastul69
Commander
2710 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 08/21/2007 7:04 AM |
| Posted By Ghendar on 08/21/2007 4:00 AM Posted By arbados on 08/20/2007 9:20 PM
 "No Dead Levels."Â
What exactly does that mean? Every PC gets something every level as far as I know.
Rogue 14 and 20 I think are examples, although I don't really get what the issue is. | |
You know, I keep thinking that after the new design team gets done with D&D 4e, D&D won't stand for Dungeons and Dragons anymore, because well, that's just not fun. It's old and stuffy. - Originally Posted by BabWryter on Kenzerco.com | |
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Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 08/21/2007 8:05 AM |
| I think it refers to dead levels in a relative fashion, i.e. as compared to other classes. All classes get hit points, skill points and BAB and saves progression at each level. So whichever class you level in, you get those. My understanding of dead levels is that the expression refers to those classes where you do not get anything else apart from those basic elements, i.e. no class ability.
Sky | |
The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10885 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 08/21/2007 8:35 AM |
| Posted By Skyscraper on 08/21/2007 8:05 AM
I think it refers to dead levels in a relative fashion, i.e. as compared to other classes. All classes get hit points, skill points and BAB and saves progression at each level. So whichever class you level in, you get those. My understanding of dead levels is that the expression refers to those classes where you do not get anything else apart from those basic elements, i.e. no class ability.
Sky
[Puts on grognard cap]
Feh! We had it that way back in 1st ED and we liked it that way. Impudent whippersnappers need to actually GET something at every level. Humbug, I say. Humbug!
[Takes off grognard cap]
In all seriousness, this sounds like it will lead to even more powerful PCs. It'll be interesting to see the PH. | |
No Hazel, no peace
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
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Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 08/21/2007 9:22 AM |
| Yeah, it's suggestive of that isn't it. Unless the classes (and races too!) get the equivalent of +1 trap sense every other level, in which case you get those symbolic candy that get leftover to throw away when you've eaten everything else in your halloween loot bag.
Sky | |
The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 08/21/2007 10:34 AM |
| I'll get back on topic in just a sec: They also mentioned on levels how they wanted to front load 1st a bit, so characters weren't so easy to take down. Doesn't make a big difference down the line if you give 1st level characters an extra 5-10 hp say.
Paladin in Hell: Just for edification, the module is based of the las picture in the 1st ed MM IIRC which shares the same name. Had a man in full plate facing off against a host of creatures. People liked it so much they made a mod.
Anyways, to the question at hand. The "Expedition" series could count for what you are talking about. They are revised clasics that are really iconic. Also the 3 recent FR mods that are part of one overarching series could be another one. | |
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Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
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arbados
Underboss
1376 Posts
New York, USA
| | 08/21/2007 11:06 AM |
| As has already been mentioned the "dead" levels are ones which besides the basic BAB, save and skill point advancement there is no real bang for your buck. Please understand that I do agree that if this is not done well it could completely unbalance the strength understanding we currrently have of characters in 3.5. However, for players (and I am a DM) it is exciting to have interesting choices for your characters to make at each level besides just deciding where to put those 3 skill points. Feats are a great part of the current game, but there are so many great ones that gaining 1 every three levels just seems so drawn out.  If a fighter wanted to ultimately get whirlwind attack for instance their feat choices have already been pre-determined for a while. same with many other feat chains. Â
Hey, I could be wrong, but it might be a good thing! I guess we just have to wait and see.
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Give me more MIND FLAYERS! | |
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Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 08/21/2007 1:49 PM |
| Okay, i'd like a more detailed description of the Paladin in Hell module (with real story notes on how it played if you happened to play through it or DM it). Everyone being so hyped about it gets my curiosity working!
I'm not going to play it anyway, it's a 2E module and i've never even played 2E. I'm not going back for sure  Still, a spoiler warning would be polite for those who might yet play the module.
Sky | |
The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
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PaSquall
Underboss
1392 Posts
| | 08/22/2007 2:42 PM |
| Didn't play or DM it  , but I have it.
Levels 15-20 (converted to 3E, that is very epic level). Very combat-heavy. Deadly (if your group dies in Hell, bye-bye resurrection...)
Too bad you're not going back, you're missing something. | |
Vindicated Champion of the PSEUDODRAGON
(Unhappy) vindicated champion of the DRYAD
Against the giants called shot : huge cloud giant female
Demonweb called shot : ghost | |
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PaSquall
Underboss
1392 Posts
| | 08/22/2007 2:49 PM |
| Posted By Mjollnir on 08/20/2007 5:33 PM
I remember high level adventures in 2nd ed. which were released just before 3.0 edition like Vortex of Madness and The Apocalypse Stone. I could even add one of the greatest adventure ever: A Paladin in Hell.
I'll add labyrinth of madness, my fave of this era (level 15+ - deadly dungeon - combats - enigmas - traps - time limit - great villains - players handouts)
And of course the fantastic return to the tomb of horrors boxed set, in the same vein.
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Vindicated Champion of the PSEUDODRAGON
(Unhappy) vindicated champion of the DRYAD
Against the giants called shot : huge cloud giant female
Demonweb called shot : ghost | |
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Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 08/23/2007 3:15 PM |
| I think we played through labyrinth of madness. Wasn't that the one where the PCs had to get a dozen or so sequential tatoos to gradually open new portions of the dungeon? Great stuff.
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The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
6438 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 08/23/2007 3:24 PM |
| I notice the following-
A lot of adventures at the end (because ideas are truly editionless, and they can be adapted to 4.0, and a lot of us adapt it anyway)
Fluff (the guide to the realms that is more a history book than sourcebook, etc)
and stuff that just closes off 3.5 (Rules compendium)
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 08/24/2007 7:32 AM |
| So... no description of the Paladin in Hell adventure from someone who played it and has fond memories of it? C'mon guys, I'd provide pages on any adventure i played (at least those that are recent enough for me to recall), it's always fun to write and get the memories flowing!
Sky | |
The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
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Nobody Important
Sergeant
718 Posts
| | 08/24/2007 11:25 AM |
| "A Paladin in Hell" Storyline and possible spoiler.
Players are going to funeral of a great paladin. They arrive to find that the entire temple is missing.
Attempting to find the lost temple they are dirrected to a wizard of living inside a huge Blade Barrier.
Once they meet the wizard they learn the Temple is trapped between two layer of Hell but he has a way to get them there.
Players "aquire" a large planar ship (really a limited Abyssal Plane) and sail that into Hell although they have a number of adventures while on the ship.
In Hell they must make their way though a deposed Archduke's staging area to get to the Temple itself.
Once inside the Temple the players must clear out evil and restore goodness so that the entire temple can move back to the prime material plane.
Inside the Temple had been a number of powerful NPCs who have been fighting Devils in defense of the Temple. The Strongest of them is the dead paladin who's spirit returns to fight along side the morners. Shortly before the players arrive he discovers a "back door" to the next layer of Hell and alone holds off the Infernal Hordes of that layer.
I hope that is a good enough summary of "A Paladin in Hell."
It seems like world shattering events always occure around the time editions change. In the realms you have the Time of Trouble and the fall of the Comyrean King. If you followed Dungeon Adventures they thankfully were allowed to finish the third adventure path with an end result that is even more multiverse shaking than the defeat of Kryss at the end of the Age of Worms.
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
6438 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 08/24/2007 12:04 PM |
| Tose adventure were affectionatley called the Clorox campaings, because they basically scoured the campaing. Either
A. the PC's died, necessitating a new campaing
or
B. Your campaign world was so radically changed that it was practically unusable.
I don't know if "A Paladin in Hell" was considered one of those, but I know they were released with an eye towards 3E.
"Look, everyone's dead! let's play 3E for the new campaing"
or
"Look, the world is half crazy and you're 36th level. Time to retire and start a new campaign. let's play 3E!"
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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Shottglazz
Sergeant
901 Posts
Quinte West, Ontario, Canada
| | 08/24/2007 1:37 PM |
| | Can't remember the name of it, but I recall playing in a 1e adventure for levels 1-100 that eventually pitted you against Orcus on his home ground... | |
Shottglazz
"Take my love, take my land, take me where I cannot stand;
I don't care, I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me."
Completed trades ( 42 ): Pikel, Darrell, JeffDHarvey, BiggPappa001, Ghendar, Valinrook X2, Wolfgang x2, Wraithborne x5, Mr Ruffles, Anothermullen, CKissee x3, Browns_Scoundrel, Kyrin, GuJiaXian x2, Tyngfumv, Basic_Aim, Mickey Mouse, Berus316, Crisisman, Zoons, Rockfrd, Sterling40 x2, Brucemc, 2007 Magical Mystery Trade, Redskullz x2, Stephengroy, Lyus_Sleyden, Foolforthought, 2008 Magical Mystery Trade, Kilsek, Generic Fighter
Pending trades ( 2 ):Wolfgang, Auric
WotC trades ( 1 ): Red_Deceiver
Bad trades ( 2 ): LeftEyeofGruumsh, Yotebeth | |
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PaSquall
Underboss
1392 Posts
| | 08/24/2007 3:00 PM |
| H4 - the throne of Bloodstone.
Browsed it once in my FLGS, and I though I'd never find a DM to master such an adventure (...I was right).
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Vindicated Champion of the PSEUDODRAGON
(Unhappy) vindicated champion of the DRYAD
Against the giants called shot : huge cloud giant female
Demonweb called shot : ghost | |
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Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 08/24/2007 10:07 PM |
| That's a good summary, thanks NI!
Sky | |
The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
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GuJiaXian
Sergeant
641 Posts
Roswell, GA
| | 08/25/2007 7:39 AM |
| | Okay, so the ending of the Savage Tides Adventure Path is epic...I'm not familiar with it, so how does it end? (I'm currently running the Shackled City Adventure Path, and I know how Age of Worms ends.) | |
"Clearly a case of too many hunchbacks and not enough mad scientists..." | |
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Nobody Important
Sergeant
718 Posts
| | 08/25/2007 3:18 PM |
| Savage Tide ends in the Abyss.
By the time you get there you should know the purpose of the Shadow Pearls and that they have many sent to various parts you your homeworld. All that remains is for Demogorgon to perform the ritual that sets them all off at once releasing the Savage Tide which will convert the masses into some kind of demon (you've already seen what happen when one goes off) and collect the chaotic energy released to merge his souls into something that would be even more powerful than the Prince of Demons.
The Savage Tide ends in several ways. Ideally they players get and destroy the Mother Pearl although just capturing and running away with it prevents the Savage Tide for a while. It is also possible Demogorgon has the Pearl but the PCs manage to drive him away from the location the ritual MUST be performed; if they can find some way to close that area they can prevent the Savage Tide or they may be able to find the lesser Pearls before Demogorgon recovers enough to perform the ritual.
Regardless of what actually happens with the Mother Pearl the fate of Demogorgon may have bigger result. If it lives but the players succeed they have a sworn enemy but otherwise things remain mostly unchanged. The big question is what happens if Demogorgon is killed which puts the crown of the Demon Prince up for grabs. Who claims this title will effect out the multiverse (at least the Abyss) is shaped for some time. There are a number of "after" scenarios proposed at the end of that adventure.
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GuJiaXian
Sergeant
641 Posts
Roswell, GA
| | 08/25/2007 5:10 PM |
| | Interesting. Here's to hoping Paizo can release the second and third adventure paths in hardback. | |
"Clearly a case of too many hunchbacks and not enough mad scientists..." | |
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Nobody Important
Sergeant
718 Posts
| | 08/25/2007 6:29 PM |
| Posted By GuJiaXian on 08/25/2007 5:10 PM
Interesting. Here's to hoping Paizo can release the second and third adventure paths in hardback.
Hope is a good thing but it is very unlikely Piazo will get to release the Age of Worms or Savage Tide as compiled hardcovers now that they don't have the DnD licence anymore.
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
6438 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 08/26/2007 6:36 PM |
| Posted By Nobody Important on 08/25/2007 6:29 PM Posted By GuJiaXian on 08/25/2007 5:10 PM
Interesting. Here's to hoping Paizo can release the second and third adventure paths in hardback. Hope is a good thing but it is very unlikely Piazo will get to release the Age of Worms or Savage Tide as compiled hardcovers now that they don't have the DnD licence anymore.
Depending on the price, I may pick both of those up... | |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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BoloBaby
Sergeant
640 Posts
Fort Mill, SC
| | 08/27/2007 5:12 PM |
| Posted By Ghendar on 08/21/2007 8:35 AM Posted By Skyscraper on 08/21/2007 8:05 AM
I think it refers to dead levels in a relative fashion, i.e. as compared to other classes. All classes get hit points, skill points and BAB and saves progression at each level. So whichever class you level in, you get those. My understanding of dead levels is that the expression refers to those classes where you do not get anything else apart from those basic elements, i.e. no class ability.
Sky [Puts on grognard cap] Feh! We had it that way back in 1st ED and we liked it that way. Impudent whippersnappers need to actually GET something at every level. Humbug, I say. Humbug! [Takes off grognard cap] In all seriousness, this sounds like it will lead to even more powerful PCs. It'll be interesting to see the PH.Â
I will say this about 3.x edition: the sorcerer was a DEAD class. The ONLY reason to take sorcerer beyond level one was for *familiar* advancement. Seriously. That's it.
As soon as you could qualify for a +1 spellcasting level PrC, you should absolutely take it.
Heritage feats fixed that somewhat, but not entirely.
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Champion of the Cleric with Raise Dead | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10885 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 08/28/2007 4:07 AM |
| Posted By Teflon Jeff on 08/26/2007 6:36 PM Posted By Nobody Important on 08/25/2007 6:29 PM Posted By GuJiaXian on 08/25/2007 5:10 PM
Interesting. Here's to hoping Paizo can release the second and third adventure paths in hardback. Hope is a good thing but it is very unlikely Piazo will get to release the Age of Worms or Savage Tide as compiled hardcovers now that they don't have the DnD licence anymore. Depending on the price, I may pick both of those up...
My guess is that since the license was yanked AND we are moving to 4E, there is no chance that we will see either collected as hardbacks.
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No Hazel, no peace
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
|
Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
6438 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 08/28/2007 7:10 AM |
| Posted By Ghendar on 08/28/2007 4:07 AM Posted By Teflon Jeff on 08/26/2007 6:36 PM Posted By Nobody Important on 08/25/2007 6:29 PM Posted By GuJiaXian on 08/25/2007 5:10 PM
Interesting. Here's to hoping Paizo can release the second and third adventure paths in hardback. Hope is a good thing but it is very unlikely Piazo will get to release the Age of Worms or Savage Tide as compiled hardcovers now that they don't have the DnD licence anymore. Depending on the price, I may pick both of those up... My guess is that since the license was yanked AND we are moving to 4E, there is no chance that we will see either collected as hardbacks. 
Well, the may fall under a number of clauses allowing the printint of lready licensed material even after the license runs out. I've seen it happen, however, I wouldn't keep hope alive for it. | |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10885 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 08/28/2007 7:24 AM |
| | I hope that's the case. Something tells me that WotC will hang onto the rights like grim death. | |
No Hazel, no peace
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
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Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 08/28/2007 9:20 AM |
| I for one hope to see both edited as hardbacks. I've bought Shackled City in hardback (was not subscribing to dungeon) and i love this adventure, though i barely started DMing (4-5 sessions) it when the player group collapsed.
Sky | |
The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
|
Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
6438 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 08/28/2007 2:51 PM |
| Posted By Skyscraper on 08/28/2007 9:20 AM
I for one hope to see both edited as hardbacks. I've bought Shackled City in hardback (was not subscribing to dungeon) and i love this adventure, though i barely started DMing (4-5 sessions) it when the player group collapsed.
Sky
that's a bummer. I'm hoping they do get to print them...
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
|
The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10885 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 08/29/2007 3:46 AM |
| | WotC permitting, it would be great if they let Paizo do what they wanted with all the Dragon and Dungeon material they have produced. We could more "best of" compilations. | |
No Hazel, no peace
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
|