| | You are not authorized to post a reply. |
| | Author | Messages | |
BigGeorge
Sneak
73 Posts
    
 | | 10/18/2007 1:37 AM |
| This might be the most adverse use of the tumble skill, but my question is wether or not a character under the influence of a flight spell can use the tumble skill to avoid attacks of opportunity. for that matter, i suppose any creature with a flight speed and the ability to hover could do it, if it is legal. we had a disscussion about this at our last game, and some felt differently than others. i suppose we were trying to take some realism out of the game, make it a bit more fantastical, some thought that a bad idea. anyway, just looking for oppinions, or if anyone has seen actual documentation about this, let me know.
| |
| |
|
Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 10/18/2007 7:46 AM |
| This is not the first time i read about this. Check out the WotC archives on the rules of the game, they might have discussed this, although it might be on a forum that i read a post too... Sorry for not being able to be more precise. You can also contact the WotC help line and ask them the question to see what their answer is.
This being said, my opinion is that i would not allow using the tumble skill while flying for the following reasons.
Tumble is based on acrobatics that require you to jump and/or roll on the ground to avoid AoOs and accomplish other feats. A basis of the entire tumble skill as far as i understand it relies on the use of the gravitional force in that you have to learn how to move relative to your opponent and relative to the ground. For example, in ground-borne circumstances, with a DC 25 tumble skill check, you can jump over or roll under your opponent, effectively passing through his square. However, when you are flying, you are able to move over or under your opponent all the time: how can you hope to surprise your opponent by suddenly moving over or under him? The entire dynamics of the movement for avoiding AoOs is IMO changed by the fact that you are suddenly not jumping or rolling about your opponent, who is also flying (presumably).
Furthermore, i'd like to note that while resting on the ground, the opponent threatens squares about him according to a certain axis that he stands along, e.g. a human stands upright on the ground. If two humans fight, their respective axes will be parallel. However, while flying, it's quite likely that the opponent will have an axis which is quite different from yours. For example, both opponents might be at right angles or some such relative positioning. During a fight, they'll adopt a plehtora of different relative positions. Thus, in most cases, the usual initial reference for tumbling changes.
So, not only are you not using the ground or the usual gravitaional forces to tumble, but also your system of reference has changed. This tells me that tumbling while flying would not be possible.
I'll conclude by noting that some feats are different whether you are ground-borne or airborne, for example spring attack doesn't work for airborne creatures, you need fly-by attack. This suggests that the designers of the game believe that airborne movement doesnt follow the same rules as ground-borne movement, which is also my opinion.
Sky | |
The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
|
Oryan77
Sergeant
955 Posts
| | 10/18/2007 10:00 AM |
| I'd actually say you could tumble while flying. I'd think of it as fighter jet arial maneuvers. Like a drop and then do a rolling spin....things like that.
Having an "average" maneuverability for the flying spell give a person really good movement. You can fly backwards, turn at 90 degrees, ect. If the flying creature had a different maneuverability for flying, then I might say he can't tumble in the air.
But, I would make the tumble DC higher than normal since there is no ground and it's a form of tumble that he doesn't perform much.
| |
Miniatures for sale *more added 07/17/08*: Click here
I will buy your unwanted D&D WotC minis collection (DDM only). Email me your asking price! | |
|
Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 10/18/2007 12:16 PM |
| Posted By Oryan77 on 10/18/2007 10:00 AM
I'd actually say you could tumble while flying. I'd think of it as fighter jet arial maneuvers. Like a drop and then do a rolling spin....things like that.
Having an "average" maneuverability for the flying spell give a person really good movement. You can fly backwards, turn at 90 degrees, ect. If the flying creature had a different maneuverability for flying, then I might say he can't tumble in the air.
But, I would make the tumble DC higher than normal since there is no ground and it's a form of tumble that he doesn't perform much.
I guess there is no bad way to look at this; Oryan makes some good points.
Myself, I agree with the fact that arial manoeuvers could be accomplished; i don't think they should be part of the tumble skill. I don't see how an expert-tumbler rogue (say with +20 on his tumble skill) who hypothetically never flew in his life could be so proficient in the air all of a sudden so as to outmatch other flying creatures that are not so good in their tumble skill but are otherwise natural flyers (i.e. they fly all the time, not only as a result of a fly spell). I also have a hard time seeing how these manoeuvers, if allowed, would not take into account the relative flight class rating of the protagonists: a class E flyer should have a hard time "tumbling" about a class A flyer.
Sky
| |
The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
| Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7146 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 10/24/2007 1:33 PM |
| I'd say it works, but their would be some judicious house ruling (penalties and bonuses based on myriad factors)
| |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
| Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6621 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 11/07/2007 11:33 PM |
| I really don't think aerial acrobatics are much like tumbling. You have nothing to push off of. A lot of aerial acrobatics have to do with suddenly dropping or doing things with thrust. Turning is only a small, though important, part of it. I don't think that average flight is good maneuverability.
I did some RPGing with aerial combat. One thing I quickly learned was that maneuverability was much worse in the air than on land. Tumbling represents super-effective movement on the ground. I don't even think that the skills needed for tumbling on the ground have enough in common with skills needed for aerial maneuverability to be considered the same class skill. Yes, dexterity is a common thread. But the person learning how to get around using flight wouldn't have all the time in the world to get used to it through practice, either. | |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
|
| | You are not authorized to post a reply. |
|
| |
ActiveForums 3.7 | You must be signed in to participate in the
games. |