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Most Edumacated
zenthrus
Warlord
5132 Posts
    
SLC, UT
 | | 12/10/2007 11:14 AM |
| Our gaming group (average level 4) encountered a Magma Hurler (CR3). I'm calling bull$*&!. The party fighter had 46hp. Same as the one CR lower magma hurler. The party fighter was not throwing blobs of magma for 3d10+8+1d6 fire (23 average damage) every round. Our Monk (21hp) was killed outright in one shot (31 damage). The ranger and fighter each took one ~25 point hit, grabbed the monk's body and fled in terror.
Compare the Magma Hurler to a Medium Fire Elemental (both CR3). Magma Hurler has 46hp to Fire Elemental's 26hp. Magma Hurler has a +6 ranged attack dealing 3d10+8+1d6 and a +11 melee attack dealing 1d6+12. Fire Elemental has a +6 melee attack dealing 1d6+1+1d6 fire. Magma Hurler has superior saving throws as well (11/5/4 vs. 3/7/1).
Magma Hurler deals damage like a CR10 critter and has hit points like a CR5-CR6 critter. If the Magma Hurler scores a critical hit, it could conceivably outright kill level 10+ PCs (53 average damage is more than enough to outright kill: 10d4 (average of 25hp) 10d6 (35hp) 10d8 (36hp) 10d10 (44hp) and 10d12 (52hp).
Since when do CR3 monsters hit harder than stone giants (CR 8, deal 2d8+12=21 average)? Not impressed with the game design on that. Not impressed at all.
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Shottglazz
Underboss
1184 Posts
Quinte West, Ontario, Canada
| | 12/10/2007 11:15 AM |
| | Holy crap! Smart PC's to take the body and run... | |
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stephengroy
Underboss
1440 Posts
Tempe AZ Beeyotch
| | 12/10/2007 6:40 PM |
| | "Hi, we broughtcha yer Monk Crispies!" | |
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| Man of Renown
Wraithborne
Warlord
5278 Posts
The Red Light District
| | 12/11/2007 3:42 AM |
| | I'd never really looked at their RPG stats, though I have plans to use them in a later campaign. That damage is brutal....CR 3...Shenanigans! | |
Eye dun no why youse guys think im not relly a person im jimgang from canada but im moving to cali as soon as i get a master card
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Pale Rider
Underboss
1023 Posts
London, Ontario, Canada
| | 12/11/2007 8:14 AM |
| This is why we are getting 4E!! It is all so clear to me now! ;)
Your lucky the DM wasn't using the new Fire and Brimstone rules for magma & lava!
It would be a tough opponent for 6th level characters - I couldn't imagine putting 3rd level parties up against that brute.
btw what the heck book is the hurler in anyways?
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Most Edumacated
zenthrus
Warlord
5132 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 12/11/2007 8:58 AM |
| Miniatures Handbook. It's also included (advanced to CR4 so it had roughly 70hp and better attack bonuses) in one of the WotC prepublished adventures (for level 1-5 adventurers).
I don't think I'd be so ticked if it hadn't been a set encounter in a published module. Suggests a serious lack of foresight on the part of the game designers and a serious lack of playtesting.
We went back to the nearby town and hired a level 7 wizard to come cast Cold Orb on it. 7d6 cold damage didn't kill the thing. | |
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Olaf the Stout
Sergeant
404 Posts
Adelaide, Australia
| | 12/11/2007 3:08 PM |
| What adventure is it in? Olaf the Stout | |
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Most Edumacated
zenthrus
Warlord
5132 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 12/11/2007 6:55 PM |
| | Shattered Gates of Slaughterguard | |
Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
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| Man of Renown
Wraithborne
Warlord
5278 Posts
The Red Light District
| | 12/12/2007 5:02 AM |
| Posted By zenthrus on 12/11/2007 6:55 PM
Shattered Gates of Slaughterguard
I was planning on DMing that one when I got to get back to playing again.....I'll have to remember the lethality. | |
Eye dun no why youse guys think im not relly a person im jimgang from canada but im moving to cali as soon as i get a master card
-Jimgang
So, you stand at your grave, Has your soul yet been taken away?
So you can't read what's engraved, Is this Heaven or merely Decay?
Was there a light, enchantingly bright, A Question, just how did it end?
Just let me sift through your calm remains, And tear you away from your skin.
-Sumerias Fain. | |
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Most Edumacated
zenthrus
Warlord
5132 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 12/12/2007 10:38 AM |
| | Read through it carefully before running it. There were two near-TPK encounters prior to that one where we lived through sheer luck. | |
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dumdragon
Sergeant
684 Posts
Amityville, NY
| | 12/12/2007 4:35 PM |
| I will keep this in mind as my players just came down the stairs and started poking around in the temple. What areas did your players have trouble with?
The only area mine had any real trouble with was when they met the howler. | |
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Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7908 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 12/12/2007 5:04 PM |
| Posted By zenthrus on 12/10/2007 11:14 AM
Our gaming group (average level 4) encountered a Magma Hurler (CR3). I'm calling bull$*&!. The party fighter had 46hp. Same as the one CR lower magma hurler. The party fighter was not throwing blobs of magma for 3d10+8+1d6 fire (23 average damage) every round. Our Monk (21hp) was killed outright in one shot (31 damage). The ranger and fighter each took one ~25 point hit, grabbed the monk's body and fled in terror.
Compare the Magma Hurler to a Medium Fire Elemental (both CR3). Magma Hurler has 46hp to Fire Elemental's 26hp. Magma Hurler has a +6 ranged attack dealing 3d10+8+1d6 and a +11 melee attack dealing 1d6+12. Fire Elemental has a +6 melee attack dealing 1d6+1+1d6 fire. Magma Hurler has superior saving throws as well (11/5/4 vs. 3/7/1).
Magma Hurler deals damage like a CR10 critter and has hit points like a CR5-CR6 critter. If the Magma Hurler scores a critical hit, it could conceivably outright kill level 10+ PCs (53 average damage is more than enough to outright kill: 10d4 (average of 25hp) 10d6 (35hp) 10d8 (36hp) 10d10 (44hp) and 10d12 (52hp).
Since when do CR3 monsters hit harder than stone giants (CR 8, deal 2d8+12=21 average)? Not impressed with the game design on that. Not impressed at all.
They are wicked overpowerful. I completely agree.
Just one nitpick, 10th level PC's usually have some form of CON bonus, though.
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Most Edumacated
zenthrus
Warlord
5132 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 12/13/2007 12:19 AM |
| Posted By dumdragon on 12/12/2007 4:35 PM What areas did your players have trouble with?
The only area mine had any real trouble with was when they met the howler.
Major problems with the Huge Fiendish Spider and the CR6 Drow Priestess.
The Howler was actually absurdly easy (no one failed a save and the party just pelted it to death with ranged weapons).
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Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
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Most Edumacated
zenthrus
Warlord
5132 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 12/13/2007 12:20 AM |
| Posted By Teflon Jeff on 12/12/2007 5:04 PM
Just one nitpick, 10th level PC's usually have some form of CON bonus, though.
Not necessarily. | |
Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
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Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7908 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 12/13/2007 8:22 AM |
| Posted By zenthrus on 12/13/2007 12:20 AM Posted By Teflon Jeff on 12/12/2007 5:04 PM
Just one nitpick, 10th level PC's usually have some form of CON bonus, though.
Not necessarily.
true, I did say usually. And a wizard or Rogue build is more likely not to have one. But a 10th level fighter usually has either a natural CON bonus, or has magically augmented it to get a CON bonus. But all in all, the Hurler is still way too powerful for CR3.
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
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| Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
12481 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 12/13/2007 9:40 PM |
| | I've always liked the look of the Magma Hurler, but thought it would be better as a large creature. Just more intimidating when something big throws something at you. Didn't know it's RPG stats were so lethal - thanks for the heads-up. | |
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Kat_Dawg33
Warrior
291 Posts
USA
| | 12/14/2007 4:49 AM |
| My group started the Shattered Gates of Slaughterguard. We had trouble with the Magma Hurler, but our HP tank Cleric did a Shield Other on my Elf Chain Fighting Dusk Blade, and we were able to get through him without casualty. But we took quite a beating.
We had a TPK before that incounter though, and then two more after. On the third TPK, we decided to hang the module up for a while.
Interestingly, we got by the Huge Fiendish Spider, but I think that was mostly due to luck. My dusk blade spent the whole fight stuck to the floor while the Monk, Rogue, and Cleric took on the beast. The Monk had two Crits, or maybe this would have been different.
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