Count Dooku
Commander
4637 Posts
    
New York
 | | 08/09/2005 7:30 AM |
| | recovered topic 7135 | |
Champion of the Skulk
Vindicated Champion of the Twig Blight | |
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Count Dooku
Commander
4637 Posts
New York
| | 08/09/2005 7:30 AM |
| I like that almost all RPG use the same system...d20 all the way.
I think the main thing that will effect the opinions of most people is "How frequently do you play?"
Colledge kids who play more than once a week have no issue learning a new system...As strange as it sounds to me some even want to use a new system as a change of pace because they grow tired of playing d20 daily....nice life :)
Older folks who are lucky to play once a month (like me) dont play enough to want different systems. There are some of us who still consult the PHB 3 or more times a session. The last thing we want is to have to learn a new set of rules for a new RPG. Id get rules for one game confused with another.
Also...if I decided to swich to Star Wars or Call of Cthulu its nice that my players would know what they are doing right off the bat insted of spending a week or 2 learing a new game. They technicly know how to play already.
Are there RPG systems out there superior to the d20 system...I dunno maybe...but I like the uniform of the OGL d20 over anything else. | |
Champion of the Skulk
Vindicated Champion of the Twig Blight | |
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Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2353 Posts
Australia
| | 08/09/2005 8:01 AM |
| There are still lots of major systems out there that don't use d20.
Cheers! | |
Merric Blackman
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Kaya Kenobi
Underboss
1304 Posts
San Jose, California
| | 08/09/2005 8:44 AM |
| I think the OGL is the best thing that could ever have happened to RPGs everywhere. When TSR was around, they'd attempt to sue the fans for homebrew stuff on their websites because they'd create monsters with an AC of -5.. Yeah, it really happened, and really alienated a lot of people.
OGL has two major reasons why it's around: To allow everyone to create their own d20 system compatible to DnD. And to patch up ill relations with the alienated crowds from the TSR days.
However, there's still many non-d20 games out there, and here's a few to name off:
Lord of the Rings RPG
Vampire
Werewolf
GURPS
They are heavilly played and in my area, there's a group for each RPG. I stick with DnD because I like it better, but the fact is that there's still a lot of different things. | |
Just a simple traveler from the swamps of Dagobah otherwise known as Florida. Also known as Hurricane Alley!
I always try to send through delivery confirmation, and I expect the same. It's only 55 cents extra, so it's just a little more than a pay phone call, so just do it for the Kai.  I prefer to trade with people in the US and Canada, sorry everyone else.
http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/53/postid/655406/view/topic/Default.aspx - references | |
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Sean-Khan
Commander
2731 Posts
| | 08/09/2005 8:44 AM |
| That's an issue I've had lately. I like D20 too, but sometimes I just need something... different. A system where a town guard can get lucky and crush that strong bullyin character's leg, where you preferably roll more than one dice so middle results are easier to achieve than the highest or lowest, where hurting hurts and doesn't reduce a numeric value on a piece of paper, where it matters if your experienced warrior is pointed with a pistol crossbow, even without poison... And where everything isn't by the book.
I've always been looking for a 'perfect' game system, but I've never found one that I've been succesful with. Recently I tried to get into RQ and Elric, but while there's many aspects I like about them, there's also many I don't like at all.
I've also been developing my own game systems often, with my last one I was pretty happy but I lost it with harddrive crash, but now, after 1 1/2 years I've almost suddenly found I've developed another set of rules, which should be _good_... Need some tweaking, and uses weapons etc. from other games, but still it's my set of rules. | |
Vindicated AtG Called shot: 2nd Huge Red Dragon
My collected trade reference links
Star Wars tactical combat -project
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Suomen miniatyyrikeräilijät / Miniature collectors of Finland | |
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Malin Lug
Sergeant
742 Posts
| | 08/09/2005 9:23 AM |
| Warhammer fantasy role play all the way... A refreshing relief from d20. We are an older group (everyone in their 30s except our newbie who is a youngling of 24) and we like really really like something that is different from d20. Besides... it is a lot easier on our old backs (carrying around all those minis and books can get old really quick.)
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"Are you not entertained?" 
Champion of the Common Bar Wench
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PatEllis15
Commander
4463 Posts
| | 08/09/2005 11:05 AM |
| I'm not sure where D&D would be today without the OGL. D&D was in a decline that starter LONG ago. Had 3.0 remained closed, and WotC didn't allow anyone else to use the D&D mechanics, the RPG market would have continued to fracture into smaller and small pieces. D&D would still be the big boy, but the overall sales numbers would have been dramatically lower.
RPG's have gained a renasaince because of the OGL. The OGL has allowed several companies to produce new RPG's, because of the success of there OGL products.
By growing the general RPG market, D&D (and the OGL) have improved the market for the niche games as well.
Dooku has it right I think. When I was in college I played all kinds of games. Now I have a hard time playing twice a month, and REALLY getting the 3.x rules down pat.
I think there is also great value in creating a common game mechanic so that you can invite any "gamer" to your table, and they will be able to pick things up pretty quickly....
Pat E | |
"Games evolve. Otherwise we'd still be pushing rocks around the dirt. What do you think the cavemen said when some dude showed up with sticks?" - Chairman7w | |
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kestrel.ca
Underboss
1687 Posts
| | 08/09/2005 11:12 AM |
| Being able to count the times I've played an RPG other than D&D on one hand, I can't say I have any desire to play any other RPG so for my I guess the question boils down to whether I prefer my D&D d20 or pre-d20. We discussed last session in my gaming group that we vastly prefer the d20 rules because it makes adjudication of so many more situations relatively objective (reducing player/dm conflict).
quote:
by Count Dooku:
Older folks who are lucky to play once a month (like me) dont play enough to want different systems. There are some of us who still consult the PHB 3 or more times a session. The last thing we want is to have to learn a new set of rules for a new RPG. Id get rules for one game confused with another.
Wow, we still consult the PHB 3 or more times an encounter! (usually tactics or spells) but hey, it's all fun! | |
Completed Trades/Transactions: 94 || Bad Trades: 3 (Chaotic Good x2, MackeyV) | |
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Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 08/09/2005 11:24 AM |
| Honestly, I am not so hot on D&D anymore. However, I still like fantasy role-playing, and have found that d20 allows me to introduce my players to systems that are different enough to remain interesting to me, while being close enough that the players don't complain too much about learning new systems. (Not that they complain, but it helps with ones who would complain.)
Most recently, I have been playing with Iron Heroes which resolves most all of my complaints about the system..
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I am not gone. | |
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Aravar
Skirmisher
21 Posts
| | 08/09/2005 11:46 AM |
| I haven't played D&D as a roleplayer (except games like Baldur's Gate) since about 1988. That's when I really got into Rolemaster, becuase ICE were doing all the Middle-Earth modules at the time.
What I have always liked about it was the customisable character system. It seems from the outside that D&D is finally catching up on this allowing a wider range of characters rather than the generic fighter, thief, whatever. I liked the way even stats could advance. You're not as stuck with your initial rolls. Each stat has a potential and if the stat is low initially it had a good chance of going higher with experience.
The comabat system is very different and the critical system coupled with open ende rolls: you roll d100 and add your attack bonus, but if you roll 96-00 you roll again and add that on (if you roll 96-00 again you keep rolling). That made every combat risky and often memorable. The fumbles were the same; my paladin once drove his lance into the ground and polevaulted off his horse in two successive combats.
I like Warhammer FRP. Partly because a friend is a great Warhammer DM and also the system. I was interested to read an artivcle recently by a medieval weapons expert who was commenting on what made a realistic comabat system. I can't remember all the details, but it struck me that Warhammer was, in my experience, closest to what he was describing.
Alas, while I have time for some minis gaming nowadays, I don't have time to role-play, so my views are somewhat out of date. | |
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yack
Commander
3320 Posts
Gatineau Canada
| | 08/09/2005 12:00 PM |
| I only play D&D and have for a long time now.(1ed/3rd) But I agree with Count the D20 is just easier and can be converted over for other material so easly.Sure sometimes it can be too much with all the feats/classes and skills but the D20 is just so much friendlier.Expec. when I want to introduce new players too the game.
I got back into D&D cause of the 3.5 ruling. | |
Champion of the Peryton
Vindicated Champion : Pit Fiend, Devourer
DW: Duergar Priest
RPG Only!!!! The Drumming Drunkn' DM | |
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Fry
Underboss
1724 Posts
| | 08/09/2005 1:10 PM |
| | I dislike d100 systems because most of the time you just don't need that extra precision. If 96-100 is a critical hit, why don't you just roll a d20 and say 20 is a crit? | |
"Why am I all sticky and naked? Did I miss something fun?"
-Vindicated champion of Tordek, Dwarf Champion | |
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kyrin
Commander
3171 Posts
| | 08/09/2005 2:14 PM |
| In my not so humble opinion, I don't consider changing the type of dice you roll, or which stat determines whether or not you hit, as "innovation." It is merely "change." Innovation should take place at the Dungeon Master (or Game Master, or Storyteller, or whatever) level. I don't have the time or spare mental capacity to learn a bunch of systems, which is the big reason I will likely be a D&D man until the day they pry the dice bag out of my cold, dead hands. After almost two-and-a-half decades, I have learned that the story is where the innovation is, and any old game mechanic will do.
IMNSHO, of course.
JIM
aka kyrin | |
My Have/Want List <-|-|->My Trades and References 1 <-|-|->My Trades and References 2
Pronounce "Drow" like "crow"! Viva la Revolution! We Shall Overcome!
Vindicated Champion of the Stirge! Vindicated Champion of the Githyanki Knight on Red Dragon!!
Vindicated Champion of the Androsphinx! | |
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Captain Harlock
Sergeant
450 Posts
| | 08/09/2005 2:27 PM |
| I have found that d20 is nice, but it does not always fit the the genre/universe as well as other systems can. For example, I find that the R&K system of 7th Sea is much better for a swashbuckling/exploration type world that 7th Sea is then the d20 Swashbuckling Adventures version. I think there are other worlds/universes that d20 may not be the best system for (such as if they ever did a Warhammer 40k RPG.)
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Dan Cooper
For there is surely nothing so beautiful than the sight of a lone man facing single-handedly half a ton of angry pot roast.
You will all go directly to your respective vahallas, Go directly, do not pass go do not collect two hundred dollars
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 08/09/2005 2:33 PM |
| GURPS has strong points and weak points compared to d20. The main weak point is that combat is REALLY REALLY SLOW. Adding feats and skills the way they did in 3E has kind of narrowed the advantage GURPS had on character customization as well, although 4th edition GURPS has nicely simplified some things that were overly complicated in 3rd.
All in all for most fantasy games, at least, I would greatly prefer a d20 system. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
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Aravar
Skirmisher
21 Posts
| | 08/09/2005 3:13 PM |
| The story's the thing (unless you're a crazy powergamer).
However, take one famous fantasy stroy: LOTR. How in D&D would Merry and Eowyn kill the Witchking? He'd have loads of hitpoints, so two hits, even if both are crits from a sword and a dagger aren't going to take him down, are they?
IMO if the system can't 'simulate' great fantasy literature there's something lacking. | |
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Count Dooku
Commander
4637 Posts
New York
| | 08/09/2005 3:17 PM |
| Lets not forget a single arrow (non magical no less) taking down an old red dragon in The Hobbit.
If a game system found a way to make a single arrow kill you (like it would in reality) gamers would complain that D&D is a TPK...There is no perfect system. | |
Champion of the Skulk
Vindicated Champion of the Twig Blight | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
13069 Posts
Mud Lick, Kentucky
| | 08/09/2005 4:14 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Aravar
IMO if the system can't 'simulate' great fantasy literature there's something lacking.
Wow, I can't disagree with that enough!
Why would you want your RPG to acurately simulate that? Count Dooku is right. Too many ops to easy TPKs.
Fantasy literature and fantasy RPG are two entirely different animals. | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM
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Aravar
Skirmisher
21 Posts
| | 08/09/2005 4:49 PM |
| Why? Because in gaming I've always wanted to create a similar feel to the great stories. They are what got me into the hobby, and disappointed me about it, in the first place. If I want to play Gauntlet I'll turn to my Playstation.
Do you really prefer a system where a low level character hasn't a hope of doing anything to a high level one? Doesn't it lead to the problem mentioned above that if cetain sorts of people are pointing a crossbow at a PC it doesn't really matter?
I remember Terry Pratchett complained that he had many suggestions for an RPG based on Discworld and he turned them down because the first thing they showed him was the combat system.
There is more to RPGing than repetitive hack'n'slash, all IMHO. | |
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Count Dooku
Commander
4637 Posts
New York
| | 08/09/2005 4:55 PM |
| I always told new players that going up in level is a divine gift. The universe of D&D rewards experiance with power. The more you do somethign the better you get at it in real life...but in the worlds of D&D you get better on a suuperhuman level.
When a fireball goes off in the middle of a crowd of 1st level characters and a 12th level character....how do you expalin why everyone is a dead chared up cinder and one guy is slightly smokey but mostly unharmed?
I dont say he learned to roll with the fire or that he was experiance enough to dodge flame...thats silly.
I say he has learned to take damage so much that he is gaining an immunity to it...a supernatural ability if you will.
Thats how high level character survive rediculus falls and can climb out of lava if they fall in. It explains why a dozen guards with crossbows pointed at him dont scare him becaus he knows hell survive the damage.
This way of looking at it makes every living creature magical in a sence. The more you are exposed to something the more you get magical powers to adapt to it. Not just spells...really high hit points and certain feats are looked at as the same thing.
I created this weird way of lookng at things when prestige classes started comming out.
There are prestige classes that specialize is spacific skills. Undead hunting classes will have the Ability to Detct Undead and Smite Undead as they go up. Rogues that take spacific rogue prestige classes will get the ability to turn invisible or Change Self to disguise themselves......HOW? They arent magic users.
They are able to do it because focusing on a task causes you to gain power to get better and better at it...and divine forces or the universe itself infuses you with these powers.
Good idea or bad idea? | |
Champion of the Skulk
Vindicated Champion of the Twig Blight | |
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Malin Lug
Sergeant
742 Posts
| | 08/09/2005 5:06 PM |
| Once again... Warhammer Fantasy Role Play, a very leathal system but with fate points, your characters can avoid the death blow, for a while at least. It has a crit system that can kill a dragon with a single shot from an arrow shot by a guardsman (true very very unlikely, but possible.) Combat is quick and messy. With quick being the operative word. Parry is a skill that can be developed as well as dodge, and a parry or dodge negates a hit.
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"Are you not entertained?"
Champion of the Common Bar Wench
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Fun Guy from Yuggoth
Cthulhufnord
Warlord
11113 Posts
Umass Amherst Baby!
| | 08/09/2005 5:46 PM |
| You might like Riddle of Steel then.
http://www.theriddleofsteel.net/
quote:
Originally posted by Sean-Khan
That's an issue I've had lately. I like D20 too, but sometimes I just need something... different. A system where a town guard can get lucky and crush that strong bullyin character's leg, where you preferably roll more than one dice so middle results are easier to achieve than the highest or lowest, where hurting hurts and doesn't reduce a numeric value on a piece of paper, where it matters if your experienced warrior is pointed with a pistol crossbow, even without poison... And where everything isn't by the book.
I've always been looking for a 'perfect' game system, but I've never found one that I've been succesful with. Recently I tried to get into RQ and Elric, but while there's many aspects I like about them, there's also many I don't like at all.
I've also been developing my own game systems often, with my last one I was pretty happy but I lost it with harddrive crash, but now, after 1 1/2 years I've almost suddenly found I've developed another set of rules, which should be _good_... Need some tweaking, and uses weapons etc. from other games, but still it's my set of rules.
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Pathetic Earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void - without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here. If you had known anything about the true nature of the universe - anything at all - you would have hidden from it in terror. | |
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 08/09/2005 5:46 PM |
| | I find parry/dodge rolls to be a drag on combat speed, personally. GURPS has the same thing. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
13069 Posts
Mud Lick, Kentucky
| | 08/09/2005 6:46 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Aravar
Do you really prefer a system where a low level character hasn't a hope of doing anything to a high level one? Doesn't it lead to the problem mentioned above that if cetain sorts of people are pointing a crossbow at a PC it doesn't really matter?
Looking at it from another angle.
Would you want your 15th level PC killed by a level 2 commoner peon who just happened to get lucky? I wouldn't.
Even in some fantasy lit, a common peasant doesn't stand a prayer of killing or even minorly injuring the major character. What you propose is valid in real life. None of us go up in level and gain hit points. We can be killed by things that would hardly scratch a 10th level fighter. Characters in literature (and D&D) are different. They are not supposed to be killed by the local farmer. What's the use of being a high level fighter if you could get killed by some serf with a crude bow?
On the other hand, you could use an action point system where spending APs will allow the character to do something truly heroic and beyond his/her abilities.
BTW, welcome to Maxminis. [:D] | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM
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Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2353 Posts
Australia
| | 08/09/2005 7:24 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Aravar
What I have always liked about it was the customisable character system. It seems from the outside that D&D is finally catching up on this allowing a wider range of characters rather than the generic fighter, thief, whatever. I liked the way even stats could advance. You're not as stuck with your initial rolls. Each stat has a potential and if the stat is low initially it had a good chance of going higher with experience.
Yes, D&D has definitely caught up with Rolemaster (and exceeded it, in many ways).
Characters can buy any skill, though some cost more. Multi-classing allows the addition of off-class abilities, and every four levels you can increase one stat by 1! (Oh, and the magical boosts to ability scores are easier to find).
Incidentally, Monte Cook, who was one of the main designers of 3e, also wrote for Rolemaster.
Cheers! | |
Merric Blackman
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Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2353 Posts
Australia
| | 08/09/2005 7:26 PM |
| Incidentally, there are rules and suggestions in Unearthed Arcana for using 3d6 instead of d20.
Cheers! | |
Merric Blackman
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Kaya Kenobi
Underboss
1304 Posts
San Jose, California
| | 08/09/2005 9:06 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ghendar
Looking at it from another angle.
Would you want your 15th level PC killed by a level 2 commoner peon who just happened to get lucky? I wouldn't.
uh...
Everyone should always have a chance, and if I'm a DM and that player pissed me off a lot, I'd kill him off with a 2nd level commoner with a +10 keen icy burst flame burst acid burst crossbow of ultimate decapitation.
Oh yeah!
Seriously, a 15th level PC will always survive a crit by the commoner, unless it happens to have a vorpal weapon. And I have once armed a commoner with a family heirloom, a +5 keen vorpal flaming butterknife. Yes, I really was bored. ;) | |
Just a simple traveler from the swamps of Dagobah otherwise known as Florida. Also known as Hurricane Alley!
I always try to send through delivery confirmation, and I expect the same. It's only 55 cents extra, so it's just a little more than a pay phone call, so just do it for the Kai. I prefer to trade with people in the US and Canada, sorry everyone else.
http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/53/postid/655406/view/topic/Default.aspx - references | |
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Sean-Khan
Commander
2731 Posts
| | 08/10/2005 2:22 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ghendar
quote:
Originally posted by Aravar
Do you really prefer a system where a low level character hasn't a hope of doing anything to a high level one? Doesn't it lead to the problem mentioned above that if cetain sorts of people are pointing a crossbow at a PC it doesn't really matter?
Looking at it from another angle.
Would you want your 15th level PC killed by a level 2 commoner peon who just happened to get lucky? I wouldn't.
Even in some fantasy lit, a common peasant doesn't stand a prayer of killing or even minorly injuring the major character. What you propose is valid in real life. None of us go up in level and gain hit points. We can be killed by things that would hardly scratch a 10th level fighter. Characters in literature (and D&D) are different. They are not supposed to be killed by the local farmer. What's the use of being a high level fighter if you could get killed by some serf with a crude bow?
There should always been a possibility, or at least it should look like that to players - GM should be well in control of things. If a peasant flees away to dark woods with a crossbow, I think it's more fun when players have to think a little before running there, knowing that someone will probably be carrying half of his guts if they run after him just like that. In DnD, you can always think 'oh, even if he critted, which he'll never do, he'd deal maximum of 1/3 of my hitpoints, and my AC's so high he probably won't even hit'.
Now I'm used to AC -boosting armors, but I've always thought that armors should give DR. GURPS Idea of passive defence works to some extent too, but need some adjusting. | |
Vindicated AtG Called shot: 2nd Huge Red Dragon
My collected trade reference links
Star Wars tactical combat -project
My modelling/terrain pages
Suomen miniatyyrikeräilijät / Miniature collectors of Finland | |
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Aravar
Skirmisher
21 Posts
| | 08/10/2005 5:15 AM |
| I wouldn't particularly want my 15th Level character to get killed at all.
But what I want is a feeling that all combat is risky. I agree with Sean-Khan. Taking on a 2nd level peasant may be at lot less risky than taking on a dragon, but it is still a risk.
Effortless wading through hordes of fodder palls after a while. | |
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Sean-Khan
Commander
2731 Posts
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Count Dooku
Commander
4637 Posts
New York
| | 08/10/2005 7:15 AM |
| quote:
And, another thing that feels stupid with D&D at higher levels are proportions, especially with damages. Heroes that just stand still, without any armours - they just get some burns in the center of an explosion that collapses the castle around him. And a moderately high-level fighter can't die from a fall of any height, IIRC the rules.
D20 is really fun to play, but just sometimes you'd like to play a game where normal little things matter
Its not stupid if you use my theroy. Check my earler post and lemme know if it sounds like bogus or a good in-game excuse for not being able to fall from any height. | |
Champion of the Skulk
Vindicated Champion of the Twig Blight | |
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Sean-Khan
Commander
2731 Posts
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
13069 Posts
Mud Lick, Kentucky
| | 08/10/2005 7:27 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Sean-Khan
And, another thing that feels stupid with D&D at higher levels are proportions, especially with damages. Heroes that just stand still, without any armours - they just get some burns in the center of an explosion that collapses the castle around him. And a moderately high-level fighter can't die from a fall of any height, IIRC the rules.
D20 is really fun to play, but just sometimes you'd like to play a game where normal little things matter!
I agree, but remember this is a system where you can have a rogue in a 10x10x10 room and a fireball goes off and if the rogue makes the reflex save, he/she takes no damage?? wtf???? Where did he go to avoid that damage??????????????? There was no place to go!
Look, I think some of you think that I'm a slave to the rules. I'm not, believe me I'm not. I freely change and adjust things as I see fit when I DM but the D&D system is inherently unrealistic. Saying that a level 2 commoner can kill the high level fighter is adding realism to the game sure but trying to add realism is tricky because D&D is inherently an unrealistic game. How can you say it should be possible to kill Elminster with a non magical dagger, but at the same time you have dragons and demons flying around??? I'm supposed to suspend my disbelief sometimes and not others??
Again, this is all stylistic. If you DM this way and run your campaign this way, it's all good. However, I will never say a low level peon can kill a high level hero.
However, the low level peon might have a high level relative who might show up. [}:)] | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM
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Aravar
Skirmisher
21 Posts
| | 08/10/2005 7:28 AM |
| The in game excuse is good as far as it goes. Indeed IIRC it pretty much accords with the explanation of higer HP in the original DMG, namely that part of it was reflecting higher skill rather than being beefier.
But there must be a point where it breaks down, otherwise all you have is a superhero type game, with some people able to fall from any height. | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
13069 Posts
Mud Lick, Kentucky
| | 08/10/2005 7:38 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Aravar
The in game excuse is good as far as it goes. Indeed IIRC it pretty much accords with the explanation of higer HP in the original DMG, namely that part of it was reflecting higher skill rather than being beefier.
But there must be a point where it breaks down, otherwise all you have is a superhero type game, with some people able to fall from any height.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you here, but how do you incorporate this into D&D?
I definitely agree with falling damage. If a PC falls from 1000 ft, and has no way of slowing his descent, he's paste. | |
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I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM
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Sean-Khan
Commander
2731 Posts
| | 08/10/2005 7:41 AM |
| Rogue with evasion is an interesting example [:)] Another one comes to my mind, I never checked if we played it right. My mounted paladin was hit by fireball. My mount saved & evaded. I didn't. WTF just happened?!?
Timings in general are another interesting issue in this, and in many other games too. If characters, even those having same initiative, act one at the time, there will be strange events. My GM just threatened to put an army of suicidal 'exploding runes' gnome -fanatics against us, high level heroes, where they all come with the same initiative and come towards us one at the time, read runes and explode, while we just stand. It's the same thing as in UFO - ENEMY UNKNOWN someone loads a weapon but doesn't have time to use it, he drops it & moves aside, and another trooper picks the weapon up & fires it, possibly dropping it again & moving away as his last actions, giving way for another trooper... | |
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Dragon Snack
Warrior
285 Posts
| | 08/10/2005 7:55 PM |
| I really liked Star Wars d6 and GURPS when our group played them. We also played Deadlands (card based), Shadowrun, a mish mash of all the White Wolf games, 7th Sea, and who knows what else (some that we played for all of 1 or 2 sessions). However, we have been playing D&D consistantly since the introduction of 3.0. At times I've been in 5 D&D games at the same time (and that's RL games, not online games).
What does that tell you?
One of my current groups tries to mix in a Savage Worlds game now and then, but then this group started as a FUDGE group until we got bored with the drawbacks in that system. Another group I was in was playing D&D, then decided to play Stargate for a change - only to break up about 3-4 sessions in (there goes $50 down the toilet now that the system is defunct).
Here's a little secret I've learned from playing so many systems...
EVERY SYSTEM SUCKS!
Maybe not sucks outright, but they ALL have drawbacks. Once you accept that fact and get on with playing, you will have fun. I think my groups play D&D because we like the setting and the rules are decent. The d20 system isn't perfect, but it's comfortable. A balance of realism and the outlandish, if you will. | |
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Testament
Underboss
1397 Posts
| | 08/10/2005 11:55 PM |
| Actually, falling damage capping out does make sense. Its called Terminal Velocity, you're not going to hit harder than that.
My only real beef with d20 is that the numbers become so high around the teens in level that the system starts to collapse. At that point, you're rolling to see if you auto-miss or threat, and saves soon become just as bad.
The only other systems I've encountered that I love as much as d20 are new World of Angst (with a slight tweak) and Savage Worlds (what the, a generic system that WORKS?) I've been playing in an Evernight game (Savage Worlds setting), and loving it, and now our Savage Worlds GM has Necessary Evil, and a guy willing to run it. Good times, and a wonderfully simple and versatile system well worth checking out. | |
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Can of the Cave Beer
Commander
2838 Posts
| | 08/11/2005 12:56 AM |
| I look at the expansion of the D20 system like I look at fast food places. OK, maybe not the exact same way, but pretty similar. You always know what you're getting when you order, but you lose that individual character of going to a hole-in-the-wall or local diner.
The D20 system has certainly opened things up for folks who want to design games, but can't figure out a dicing convention. That's good. It's given everyone an operating system that they can use. That lets more creative types into the mix for designing supplements and new systems. That is also good.
The downside is that somewhere along the line, things start to lose their unique flavor. I can't imagine playing the WEG Star Wars, any of the WW games, or Earthdawn using the D20 system. OK, maybe I can see Earthdawn as it's already pretty close to D&D to begin with, but I was running out of games that I used to play and needed another example. I probably should have said Warhammer FRP, so let's just pretend that I did say WFRP instead of Earthdawn.
Anyway, I suppose you could say that I feel that much of the games flavor lies in the system used. My old group experimented with Deadlands for all of a single game. We all had trouble grasping the chips/cards stuff. I, on the other hand, loved it and wanted to continue, but I was the only one.
I know that Pinnacle did a D20 Deadlands conversion, but to me it just couldn't be the same. There was just something about cutting cards and throwing chips that just added something special to the game.
In the end, the proliferation of D20 is simply a force to be recognized. It may take individual flavor from a game like Deadlands, but it allows some other games to start because those games don't have to go through the procedure of creating a new dicing system. I don't think of it as either extremely beneficial or extremely bad for the market--I'd probably what was gained to be about equal to that which is lost. | |
Champion of the Werewolf Lord, Knight of Anything Duergar, and Squire of Things Gnollish
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Sean-Khan
Commander
2731 Posts
| | 08/11/2005 2:59 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Dragon Snack
Here's a little secret I've learned from playing so many systems...
EVERY SYSTEM SUCKS!
Well said, that's why I have my need to develop a perfect system [:D] Maybe it can never be done, maybe everyone just have different tastes, maybe it's roleplayers's philosopher's stone. I think I've seen one game that had good idea about this (Fudge?); It game the reader a choise of what dice the game would use.
Testament, could you please describe a little those systems? There really would be a need for a RPG -system info database I've mentioned here before...
Cave Beer, Star Wars actually works pretty well with D20. It's never really been too much about realism, and on the other hand Vitality/Wound -system makes combat more or less dangerous for anyone.
How about D&D compared to older versions? Everything has it's standards, which this way said sounds strange, but I like it. Players have much stronger impact on what their players can do. And compared to older versions of DnD, 3+E is most flexible. In addition to those, the fact that D&D is very well known, new versions have appealing look and cheap price of the large first printing makes it really easy to understand why this game has been so succesful - and OGL -thing comes on the top of that. | |
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