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Subject: Cross-gender roleplaying

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Zeb
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03/11/2006 12:16 AM  
For me it is all about the maturity level of the players, and how conservative they may be. I've played female PCs, my wife has played male PCs, I've even had a female gamer play a lesbian (though she wasn't herself). Personally, I don't see a problem.

RPing encounters when sexuality comes to the fore should be based off of the character's background and common sense (for those players that have it). [)]

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03/11/2006 2:06 AM  
Ive done research on genderbending on MUDs before and these things show up there as well. Personally I have no problem with it, but then again I'm a very liberal sociologist with several friends who are cross-gendered/post op transexuals.

Yes, young boys often do stupid things when they play female chars, but they also often do stupid things when they play male chars and run into female NPCs. Im not to big on sex-stuff in my D&D games anyway, its fun as a joke every now and then, but it often gets distracting and just silly.

People that are adamantly against it I don't understand though. But when introducing gender to RPGs it seems to happen alot. Remember the letter in Dragon where they guy said female chars should have a negative 2 str because females are weaker? Or the dungeon where the go wrote in that the adventure they printed was crap because it had a female lumberjack and it ruined his suspension of disbelief because that just doesnt happen (yeah the fire breathing dragon didnt ruin it though, whodathunk it)

I use to crossmud all the time, the only people who were uncomfortable were the ones that refused to roleplay and only wanted to hit on every woman they came across for mudsex. They said it was "dishonest".

Finally I love the earlier sentiment about being able to get into character. I dont know what its like to live for 1000 years but I play Elves and Dwarves, and I've never been a hired killer, but I've played them, so whats so wrong with stretching to play a woman? (or a woman playing a man for that matter)

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03/11/2006 9:52 AM  
My group has played with 2 females inthe past and their characters were always females and they were great characters althought very femenine.

The guys however have never played as females (besides the DM) until this last campaign, which is 3E btw, coincidence...maybe [)] One of our guys has one character that is a female monk, granted he is playing it with a CHA of 8 and with a rotten butch attitude but still.

As Ghendar said, males are unqualified to play female characters, I know I kill female NPCs. We cannot think as women and their approach to the game and situations. I really enjoyed the times we have female players, they brought a very different view of things and totally off-the-wall solutions.

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03/11/2006 11:05 AM  
I've got no real problems with it, but it does make the game a little... unnatural. It just doesn't seem right if they played a cross-gender character, but if one of my players really wanted to, I wouldn't stop them.

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03/11/2006 4:12 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by Benimoto
I, personally, could care less. I find it slightly annoying when a guy playing a female character feels that every diplomacy check should get a +2 "cleavage modifier". But people do a lot of annoying things when playing their characters, and that's one of the least of them.

I have a lot of complicated thoughts about the subject of this thread that I don't care to take the time to unravel, so I think I'll just summarize:

I don't care about guys playing girls, or girls playing guys, as long as nobody attempts to get a "cleavage modifier".

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03/11/2006 5:22 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by Fry

quote:
Originally posted by Benimoto
I, personally, could care less. I find it slightly annoying when a guy playing a female character feels that every diplomacy check should get a +2 "cleavage modifier". But people do a lot of annoying things when playing their characters, and that's one of the least of them.

I have a lot of complicated thoughts about the subject of this thread that I don't care to take the time to unravel, so I think I'll just summarize:

I don't care about guys playing girls, or girls playing guys, as long as nobody attempts to get a "cleavage modifier".



Exactly. I always finding bringing sex into D&D games just becomes silly. One of my pet peeves revolves around it. The idea that charisma = physical attractivness. You could have an 20 charisma and be butt ugly (marlon brando later in life) or have a 8 charisma and be attractive.

I like to play chars, guy or girl, if I have a concept, Ill run it. In general I run men because those are the concepts I come up with. but if a concept for a woman hits I have no issue running it. The only time Ive ever found seduction/sex to work in a game without it becoming distracting was in a recent (and short lived sadly) play by web game where my female psychic warrior was involved in a train heist (eberron). Was an weird situation but it worked because the DM didnt force any odd issues if I didnt know what to say, and I winged it at points by saying things like "I make a bluff check to say what she/he (I was seducing a man and a woman) wants to hear. But id do the same with a male char seducing a female as im not much of a seducer...


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03/11/2006 8:26 PM  
As long as ppl play the PC pretty much the same way, I dont see there being much difference or dispute. I mean whether the PC is a female or male shouldnt be that big of a deal. Unless the person starts being really dumb with it and wanting to do weird things. At that point I'd definetely cut them off. Luckily, I've never had a problem with it yet, and I really doubt I will. My group is a bunch of my close friends, so I dont think I have much to worry about. Sometimes I feel bad when I read other ppl's negative experiences, just sucks.

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03/12/2006 2:25 AM  
Hehe... I've done that myself actually. I had a female heir to the throne in an Amber game. She protected herself by cutting her hair and dressing cross gender & using a judical aplication of illusion magics.

quote:
Originally posted by doubtofbuddha

In my current campaign Sam (lalato) is playing a woman disguised as a man.



I've never had a problem with cross-gender roleplaying myself. Most of the groups I game with are a bit older(mid 20's). I did have a small stretch several years ago rping mostly female characters. I look at myself roleplaying cross gender this way.

If I can sucssessfully roleplay/portray the unknowable horrors of the Cthulhu Mythos, roleplaying a woman er.. cross gender can't be that much harder.[:D]

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03/12/2006 2:28 AM  
You too?! I can't even remember the amount of times that label has been tossed my way offline or online.[)]

quote:
Originally posted by kyrin

I didn't join in that conversation, first because it got so heated, and second because there's a guy over there who thinks I'm the Antichrist, and would have made it even uglier.


Pathetic Earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void - without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here. If you had known anything about the true nature of the universe - anything at all - you would have hidden from it in terror.
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03/12/2006 2:50 PM  
When I DM, I do not allow people to make characters of other genders. There are times when someone can't make it, and someone else plays their character for them. In this situation, anyone can play anyone else's character. Typically, when someone plays more than one character, they don't really role play the additional character that much.

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03/12/2006 3:17 PM  
It seems to me that the whole point of playing a role playing game is to play the role of something you can't be in real life. As such I see nothing wrong with playing a with a cross gender player.

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03/12/2006 6:05 PM  
I have no problem with players designing/playing characters of the opposite gender -- and have had it done in my games. But then, I've always had very mature players and it's never been a problem. The ladies might roll their eyes sometimes when a male player plays their female character a little "off," but that's the extent of it.

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glauron
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03/12/2006 7:48 PM  
I couldn't do it. Oh I'll admit my mouse pointer has hovered over the Female button occasionally, but I just can't commit to a female persona. And on a PC it makes absolutely no difference, man do I have issues.
What's the problem, it's fantasy right? Must be some social taboo or childhood religious indoctrination perhaps? Then again, D&D roleplayers were once accused of satanism and devil worship.
I need to throw off my inhibitions and become a virtual/fantasy woman, but that would make me a l......, are we allowed to use the L word?
Forgive my irreverent humor, or lack thereof. I really enjoyed the discussion and contributions.
Cheers

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johnny.quest
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03/12/2006 9:17 PM  
I see no problem with it at all. I don't think men and women are all that different, though. Plus, our D&D sessions aren't really about re-enacting romanticized European history.

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03/13/2006 3:44 AM  
I as a DM have no problem with it, assuming that the player is mature enough to handle it properly. In my current group I have a single female PC run my a male gamer, and it has worked out just fine. Occasionaly we make some out-of-character jokes about the deal, wich I believe removes the need for immature behavior in-character.

But then again, this is very dependant on the player in question. I have a guy in my group that I wouldnt allow to play a female PC, he just isnt mature enough.

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03/13/2006 4:49 AM  
While I have no problem playing female characters in general, I wouldn't bother with my current group as there are a few hormone driven teenagers in it - and they just can't help themselves.

Recently our DM had a slip-of-the-tounge. It doesn't translate well, but imagine "Tots" as a word.
He meant to say
"You see plenty of Tots on the ground"
Instead he said T*ts, and from that day we have been carrying bags of T*ts around.


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Wayne
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03/13/2006 5:03 AM  
quote:
Originally posted by glauron
Oh I'll admit my mouse pointer has hovered over the Female button occasionally
I'll bet it has!

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03/13/2006 10:14 AM  
quote:
Originally posted by maijstral

quote:
Originally posted by Sulaco

By the way, and I ask this fully cognisant of that fact that I may regret knowing the answer, what in the name of holy hell is a "bishonen"?



Sadly I know this,being an anime fan. Bishonen is a word from japanese literature meaning a young man of extraordinary beauty often mistaken for a woman.


Ah, so they are those sexually ambiguous metrosexual types in Japanese video games that make me not want to play Japanese video games. Gotcha.

Thanks, man.

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03/13/2006 10:27 AM  
quote:
Originally posted by Low Key

I as a DM have no problem with it, assuming that the player is mature enough to handle it properly.


Precisely. I see putting a blankety ban on it is simply ludicrous as it arbitrarily cuts your players' characetr option by 50%. It should, like all things, be entirely on a case-by-case basis.

If a player said to me "I want to play a slut with giant titties who has sex with people to get what she wants" I'd tell him no.* The same goes for someone who wants to play some "uber-leet" half-dragon quarter-drow eighth-vampire monstrosity or a "kewl" Drizzt-clone. Luckily none of these is an issue with my group so we play as we may.

*Actually I'd tell him that he was on the wrong ghouse and should leave before I have him arrested for breaking and entering, but after that I'd tell him no.

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Québec

03/13/2006 12:48 PM  
Is a bishone not just a fancy way of calling an effiminate male ? I would not allow that
in my games and actually hate it when I am playing a video game or watching anime where the character is not clearly male or clearly female. I just ban all the weird "issues" in
the homeworld I create. As DM's are free to make their worlds however they want.

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03/13/2006 1:01 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by Sulaco

quote:
Originally posted by Low Key

I as a DM have no problem with it, assuming that the player is mature enough to handle it properly.


Precisely. I see putting a blankety ban on it is simply ludicrous as it arbitrarily cuts your players' characetr option by 50%. It should, like all things, be entirely on a case-by-case basis.

If a player said to me "I want to play a slut with giant titties who has sex with people to get what she wants" I'd tell him no.* The same goes for someone who wants to play some "uber-leet" half-dragon quarter-drow eighth-vampire monstrosity or a "kewl" Drizzt-clone. Luckily none of these is an issue with my group so we play as we may.

*Actually I'd tell him that he was on the wrong ghouse and should leave before I have him arrested for breaking and entering, but after that I'd tell him no.



If I had a female say she wanted to play that characted Id probably say no too. It would disrupt the game more than it would contribute.

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Québec

03/13/2006 1:18 PM  
I would allow it, for a bit of comedy and if it went too far, place the female in a situation where she would have to change her ways or suffer some consequences. In one game I am playing, we have a female rogue that is the character of a female player that
cannot attend the game fairly often, so she does not participate in combat, but we can use her for tasks which are better suited for a rogue. After a great victory last time we
played, we had a celebration in a bar and my character stayed up to drink with the rogue and then "offered" her a "free room" so they could "celebrate" even further. The party
cleric was not pleased with it but he let it go. He was already asleep anyways, hehe

In my other group as a PC that we rarely get to play, I am a Minotaur that was bought by a female Cleric Of Lolth ( played by my ex-girlfriend, who is also the DM ) and my young,
curious Minotaur, her bodyguard, asked, as a favor, to share a bed with her and was allowed to sleep on the floor next to her bed and even that, was considered a large favor. She did find a way to have me play a Minotaur, yet with a large dissadvantage: I
have a Collar Of Obediance that the Cleric controls and can kill me at any instant. Although I adapted to this and am playing a very loyal, yet carnivorous, savage and ruthless beast that thinks of protecting his mistress first and foremost and has no desire for freedom. This was a way to make the campaign work, and I was more than willing to sacrifice freedom for the chance to play a true Minotaur, out of Dragonlance.

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03/14/2006 10:34 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by Wayne

quote:
Originally posted by glauron
Oh I'll admit my mouse pointer has hovered over the Female button occasionally
I'll bet it has!


I'll try and be more subtle in future. Good pick up.

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03/15/2006 5:44 PM  
Well in most of the campains I've played in gender was a non issue we just never really had a situation come up where it mattered. Most of the time gender=none would have fit for my earlier campains. Now no one has asked our current DM but I' sure he'd be fine with it as we are all grown men and mature enough to handle it.

As others have pointed out we all play very "alien" characters anyway. I don't know about you all but I play a elven rogue who is very agile and slight of build. I'm not even close to that in real life(I am a 330lb and 6 1/2 ft tall). So playing a female character would not be too hard but I really don't see the need nor interest in doing so. Unless it was some requirement for some reason I remember way back there were a few classes in dragon that were restricted to a gender.

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03/16/2006 3:01 AM  
I was drunk and tired when I made this post. Its not needed, I edited it to get rid of it. Im just going to keep my thoughts to myself on this one.

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03/16/2006 3:43 AM  
I play both male and female characters and don't have any problems with my character or the people I play with. Though I do play with very mature players (irrespective of age).

As a DM I would have far more of a problem with a player wanting to play a half this/half that than one who wants to play someone of the opposite sex. My daughter (15) and my son (18) are both very good role-players and have little difficulty with playing characters of the opposite sex.

It is all down to the player. There are some people where I dispair when they play characters of their own sex let alone a different one. A good role-player can handle most situations - a bad "roll" play can't handle the simplest of tasks. It is the task of the role-player to break the mould of ther standard stereotypes based around gender/race or whatever.

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03/17/2006 12:29 AM  
I see no problem whatsoever with cross-gender roleplaying, so long as the group is able to handle it maturely. I can understand restricting it if your gaming group is a bunch of horny teenage males who consider the term "female" to be synonymous with "sex object", but frankly, I doubt I'd want to be part of a group like that anyway. My group (which is currently all-male) usually sticks to same-gender characters, but we don't have problems when someone does choose to switch things up. Arguably my most memorable PC I've ever played was a female, and I was able to play her just fine. I occasionally had to remind a fellow player to use "her" or "she" instead of "him" or "he" to refer to her, but that was the extent of any problems. In fact, the character was so successful that I later used a variation of her as my character when we started a futuristic spacefaring campaign. Anyone too immature to handle a little cross-gender roleplaying likely wouldn't last long in my group anyway-- we don't have much patience for immaturity in any form.
I suppose my group might be the exception, though. We're certainly unusual in at least one other respect-- the game I'm currently DMing has run successfully for more than a year with a party composed almost exclusively of evil PCs, which seems to be nearly unheard of. So I might just be lucky enough to have abnormally mature players. [:D]

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03/17/2006 3:25 AM  
As everyone has pretty much stated, it just comes down to how your group handles it and the player in question. It can work out really well..and it can be a total disaster. i havent had a disaster yet, but I always jealously guard my group and only game with certain ppl.

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03/20/2006 5:26 AM  
The first thing I would like to say is my games are not PG and I would not have young people play in them. Sex, racism, perversion and true evil and common in my games.

My current game has two male players playing female characters.
Both players are 30ish.

One plays a noble that became a religious devote after losing a child during pregency early in her life.

The second plays a half-elf(in a area of racism agaist elfs)who grew up the dauther of a prositude and was at the begining of the adventure was a prositude herself.

NOW IF THAT DOES NOT SOUND LIKE A RECIPE FOR DISASTER I DON'T KNOW WHAT DOES.

Somehow we are making it work. The half-elf was instrmental into the first story arc of the game. A vicious assult on her worked to bind the party together and allow them to explore a lot of issues would the society they were in.

The other female character is going to figure promiently in an upcoming turn of events.

Overall both players are adapting to thier roles. I had to pull the half-elf back a bit, but it is working it self out. A lot of his/her eairler behaviour is making more sense as it becomes apparent that the character is emotinaly damaged.

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03/20/2006 10:20 AM  
Many experiences with players playing characters of different sexes. Once (when we were hormone driven teens) we had a late night session get a little "wierd". We decided to ban males from playing females for a while, cause, well, we didn't need guys just playing girls who wanted to sleep with anything that smiled at them.

Since then, we've matured a bit. One of the GM's in my group still bans them in his game, but I think for the most part we've matured.

Oddly, in another game (a pre-made campaign, Darkstrider for those of you who play D6 Star Wars), that same GM plays the female captain of the ship. Since the players make up the entire crew of the ship, I also play two female characters (a pilot and medic) and one male character. I think it's been fine for the most part and it would have made the game a little odd/more work had we changed them to males.

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03/23/2006 2:51 PM  
Heh... i admit that i'm a bit surprised to see that there are so many players with issues about cross-gender role-playing. I thought there might be some, but not that many. Even when i was a teenager and played D&D 15 or more years ago, we had female and male characters and some cross-gender playing and no problems whatsoever.

In the game i am GM in right now, one important NPC i play is a homosexual, and i think the players like him pretty much (all male PCs this time around). We actually keep the sex entirely out of the game, and i wouldn't want it otherwise playing a gay character thank you :). Plus... he swore abstinence, just so i'd have an easier time playing him out :) I also included a lesbian character that's due to come into play any time now.

Generally, for me and all gaming partners i had up to now, D&D is not about sex but rather about living through fantasy adventures, so the actual gender of a character as little impact apart from the color of the character itself. We don't play through fantasy sexual experiences - preferring to keep that for real life :)

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03/23/2006 3:32 PM  
In a game of imagination, the gender issue is a non-issue. I've had grown men play female characters in my games before. No big deal. Getting into the role might be tricky but it's no trickier to get into the role of an elven sorcerer who lives for centuries.

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Québec

03/27/2006 3:23 PM  
Well, it finally happened to us. My ex started running the new campaign I helped her design and her boyfriend is playing an elven woman. I must say I was quite shocked, but he does look and talk the part already, so it was not big of a stretch. He is not using it to get advantages and acts more like a gnome than an elf ( long story...). We have the
most "original" group I have ever played on. I am a Catfolk, Alex is an Earth Genisa, the
new guy is a Half-Ogre and then there is the Elven Sorceress that thinks she is a Gnome. It was quite a fun evening and the player, much to my surprise, has been acting maturely with his character.

However, I would still not allow "things of that nature"...

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03/27/2006 3:40 PM  
In my PnP group, we have rotating DM's. All male players, no female characters as of yet, but something ill happened a few games ago. One of the quietest guys was DM'ing and he was playing an Erinys who was caught in a prison, he did a great job RP'ing the seductress, but the rest of us got really creeped out, and it didn't help that one of the guys the next week asked to tape record his performance so he could play it back to get in the mood for marital relations.

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03/27/2006 3:45 PM  
That is most disturbing...[:0]

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03/27/2006 3:55 PM  
In my group which ranges from age 9, my son to age 55, an older man who is happily married, I've had parties where both the kid and the older guy played female characters.

And they both pulled it off great. A nine year old appraoches it more innocently of course, but the older guy did great, even down to arguing to leave some of the treasure behind for the women and children goblins, etc.

The same older guy, when he plays male characters, is the first one to head to the tavern to locate his organic bedwarmer for the night.

The funny thing is that my kid played a female treant sapling (savage species) one campaign called Theodora. We all called her Theo, and left it at that. She was entrusted with several seeds that her druid master wanted her to plant in other lands as blessings.

My kid played it well, and after one of our real female players character got pregnant, and had to retire, Theo retired with her and became a treant midwife, nurse, it was real cool!

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03/27/2006 6:14 PM  
In my current campaign as DM, I have both a male playing a female PC, and a female playing a male PC.
In the campaign I play in, I have had a female cleric character in the past, and currently have a teenagefemale mage-rogue type (that campaign is using a very cool homebrew classless system).
We've never had an issue with this, although as several posters havepointedout, we are older, or mature, or expereinced or whatever you want to call us (mid 40's). My son also plays in both campaigns (he is 15, and yes, he plays males in both campaigns.
In my campaign a male NPC (wererat-rouge, actually) has fallen for the female PC played by a male. The player has done a good job of managing this (even though the PC isn't really interested in the NPC in "that way"). In the campaign I play in, the teenage female is quite a lot of fun, although a bit sterotyped (she says"like" alot, writes bad poetry, and keeps sneaking out to adventure against her parents wishes). It is a lot of fun and very silly at times, but she also is serious about becoming an adventurer.

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03/27/2006 6:31 PM  
With my current batch of players cross-gender RP isn't an issue (none of them would think to consider the possibility).

With past groups I've had far more women playing as men than men playing female roles (although I've DMed and PCed in groups with both). Typically I find women tend to RP male roles better than men tend to RP female roles.

I wouldn't put a ban on cross-gender but then again I've gamed with a variety of *interesting* people so nothing is very shocking [:D]

For myself I don't play female characters in PnP because I'm much better suited to RP male roles. On computer games (i.e. Baldur's Gate) where I get to custom craft the party it's usually mixed for variety.

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Adelaide

03/27/2006 7:15 PM  
On computer games I often pick female characters as I like looking at them

Once past the teenage lads role playing often depraved immoral girls, it doesn't seem like an issue at all.

I thought about this thread when playing last Saturday night. It was an instant rpg type thing, and they had a selection of characters to pick from. I didn't consider gender at all when setting up their choices.
Five players: Two women, three men. Two guys had ended up with female characters and one woman ended up with a male PC.
I couldn't imagine any of them saying 'I don't want that character, it's the wrong sex'.
Seems pretty homophobic to dismiss cross gender roles out of hand. I wonder how many of the groups that refuse it also refuse gay characters.

In a much earlier campaign we had a girl who loved trying to get her characters pregnant... that was more disturbing than someone playing a different gender :|

Most of the time, romance plays little part in my realms. Sometimes as a story hook, especially for paladins (the chaste type of stuff) but for ease of play, most of my worlds seem to be equal opportunity for gender. More bigotry depending on race than sex.


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Kansas City, MO USA

03/27/2006 11:20 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by Brazenwood
The funny thing is that my kid played a female treant sapling...


I'm not trying to nit-pick, but wouldn't a treant have no gender as they are Plant types, meaning asexual reproduction? I guess the Treant could be effeminate, but not female specifically.

I failed at not nit-picking, huh? I succeeded at my pick nit roll...[:o)]

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