| | You are not authorized to post a reply. |
| | Author | Messages | |
E Thug of the Round Table Wolfgang Warlord
 6588 Posts



 Milton, Ontario Canada
 | | 09/07/2007 7:11 AM |
| Kobolds
they are small and can be quite deadly to a PC if the dm is doing it right | | Proud member since March 26 2005 Champion of the SIVAK DRACONIAN Completed trades: (94) Bad traders(2) DJchuckles, sardal Called shots:Sivak Draconian in DD Trade References Email Me | |
| The Great Choco Monster Ghendar Warlord
 13069 Posts



 Mud Lick, Kentucky
 | | 09/07/2007 10:37 AM |
| Posted By Wolfgang on 09/07/2007 7:11 AM Kobolds
they are small and can be quite deadly to a PC if the dm is doing it right I can attest to that personally.
| | WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :( I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220 G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM
| |
| Master of the Awesome Sauce Teflon Jeff Warlord
 7908 Posts



 Sector 2814
 | | 09/07/2007 2:17 PM |
| Posted By lycusmike on 09/07/2007 4:52 AM Negative adventure design.
By that I mean, the DM finds ways to make sure a character can't use a class feature/feat/spell on a regular basis simply because he, as a DM, does not know how to deal with it.
Heck Yes. More just outright banning.
I had a DM that did that to warlocks. He thought the eldritch blast unlimited capabilities would be overpowered, so he just banned the class. Never tried it or anything.
| | Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon "Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
| arbados Underboss
 1450 Posts



 New York, USA
 | | 09/10/2007 8:00 PM |
| Energy draining has to be on the top of the list. When speaking with my players they all sort of agreed that they would rather die in a fight than be the one standing with 4 or so levels lost. I know there are spells which can reverse the effect and all, but sometimes you just don't have them available. Not trying to debate the point as much as I am saying that level loss is always a player fear regardless of what attempts there is to get them back. Additionally, my group simply fears all dragons no matter how small or weak they may be (of course they don't know this upon meeting the beast). I have eagerly made these creatures in my world to be beings of power, mystery and awe. My players hearing the word dragon get worked up in fear right off the bat. They have battled many and on most occasions won, but these battles are usually ones not of their choice, but more due to them having no other option in where their characters ventured. | | Give me more MIND FLAYERS! | |
| The Great Choco Monster Ghendar Warlord
 13069 Posts



 Mud Lick, Kentucky
 | | 09/11/2007 3:39 AM |
| Posted By Teflon Jeff on 09/07/2007 2:17 PM
I had a DM that did that to warlocks. He thought the eldritch blast unlimited capabilities would be overpowered, so he just banned the class. Never tried it or anything.
I had a player try a warlock once and I wasn't all that impressed. I don't think the blast is overpowering. I just find the whole class boring and unecessary.
However, let me ask a question. What if I as the DM decide that I don't want the warlock class in my campaign. Shouldn't I be allowed to make that decision? I don't have to accept every new class WotC designs. | | WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :( I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220 G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM
| |
| Master of the Awesome Sauce Teflon Jeff Warlord
 7908 Posts



 Sector 2814
 | | 09/12/2007 6:38 PM |
| Posted By Ghendar on 09/11/2007 3:39 AM Posted By Teflon Jeff on 09/07/2007 2:17 PM
I had a DM that did that to warlocks. He thought the eldritch blast unlimited capabilities would be overpowered, so he just banned the class. Never tried it or anything.
I had a player try a warlock once and I wasn't all that impressed. I don't think the blast is overpowering. I just find the whole class boring and unecessary. However, let me ask a question. What if I as the DM decide that I don't want the warlock class in my campaign. Shouldn't I be allowed to make that decision? I don't have to accept every new class WotC designs.
I think you have every right to not allow it, for a variety of reasons (Flavor, power, campaign reasons) but to not allow it with no logical reason is a bit absurd. | | Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon "Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
| BigGeorge Sneak
 74 Posts




 | | 10/18/2007 1:45 AM |
| I hate to see save or die effects that don't effect my fighter, but rail my compatriots. example:
my Figther only fails the bodaks gaze on a 1. the sorcerer behind me, with a blindfold on, still manages to roll bad enough to have to save, and fails, when he is trying just to stay out of the fight until the bodaks are cleaved asunder.
I know players are meant to fear things, and they should. but sometimes it feels like the only thing to fear is save or die effects, high CR encounters, and irrational DMs.
I think that if a giant was tough, then people would mention once in a while that a giant nearly beat their party, not how many their fighter cleaved through. I just think that all monsters should be feared, they are monsters, after all. | | | |
| The Great Choco Monster Ghendar Warlord
 13069 Posts



 Mud Lick, Kentucky
 | | 10/18/2007 5:22 AM |
| Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:38 PM
There's a differnece between the dragon situation you describe and save or die. It's so rare to have that happen and in most cases, I put my PC in that situation if it does happen. I haven't gotten out of the way, I wanted to do a full attack, etc. I had recourse to get out. Save or die just bones PCs more than NPCs, in my experience. Also, it seems to ruin encounters both for PCs and for DMs.
Yeah, but if save or die (SOD) bones the DM, then I would say the DM should not be using it. If I, as the DM, use a SOD effect I have to be ready for the consequences, or I shouldn't use it.
I think the mechanic has value and has its uses. | | WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :( I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220 G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM
| |
| nyjastul69 Commander
 2731 Posts



 Rhode Island
 | | 10/18/2007 10:18 AM |
| Posted By BigGeorge on 10/18/2007 1:45 AM I hate to see save or die effects that don't effect my fighter, but rail my compatriots. example:
my Figther only fails the bodaks gaze on a 1. the sorcerer behind me, with a blindfold on, still manages to roll bad enough to have to save, and fails, when he is trying just to stay out of the fight until the bodaks are cleaved asunder.
I know players are meant to fear things, and they should. but sometimes it feels like the only thing to fear is save or die effects, high CR encounters, and irrational DMs.
I think that if a giant was tough, then people would mention once in a while that a giant nearly beat their party, not how many their fighter cleaved through. I just think that all monsters should be feared, they are monsters, after all.
Why does the sorc have to make a save?
From the SRD:
GAZE ATTACKSWhile the medusa’s gaze is well known, gaze attacks can also charm, curse, or even kill. Gaze attacks not produced by a spell are supernatural. Each character within range of a gaze attack must attempt a saving throw (which can be a Fortitude or Will save) each round at the beginning of his turn. An opponent can avert his eyes from the creature’s face, looking at the creature’s body, watching its shadow, or tracking the creature in a reflective surface. Each round, the opponent has a 50% chance of not having to make a saving throw. The creature with the gaze attack gains concealment relative to the opponent. An opponent can shut his eyes, turn his back on the creature, or wear a blindfold. In these cases, the opponent does not need to make a saving throw. The creature with the gaze attack gains total concealment relative to the opponent. A creature with a gaze attack can actively attempt to use its gaze as an attack action. The creature simply chooses a target within range, and that opponent must attempt a saving throw. If the target has chosen to defend against the gaze as discussed above, the opponent gets a chance to avoid the saving throw (either 50% chance for averting eyes or 100% chance for shutting eyes). It is possible for an opponent to save against a creature’s gaze twice during the same round, once before its own action and once during the creature’s action. Looking at the creature’s image (such as in a mirror or as part of an illusion) does not subject the viewer to a gaze attack. A creature is immune to its own gaze attack. If visibility is limited (by dim lighting, a fog, or the like) so that it results in concealment, there is a percentage chance equal to the normal miss chance for that degree of concealment that a character won’t need to make a saving throw in a given round. This chance is not cumulative with the chance for averting your eyes, but is rolled separately. Invisible creatures cannot use gaze attacks. Characters using darkvision in complete darkness are affected by a gaze attack normally. Unless specified otherwise, a creature with a gaze attack can control its gaze attack and “turn it off ” when so desired. | |
| |
| Shottglazz Underboss
 1184 Posts



 Quinte West, Ontario, Canada
 | | 10/18/2007 11:15 AM |
| | ...as a player, I hate to see DM's that aren't prepared...if you can't take the time to read the adventure, or have your notes organized - then bite the bullet and tell your players so that their time isn't wasted... | | Shottglazz "Take my love, take my land, take me where I cannot stand; I don't care, I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me." Completed trades ( 53 ): Pikel, Darrell x2, JeffDHarvey, BiggPappa001, Ghendar, Valinrook X2, Wolfgang x4, Wraithborne x6, Mr Ruffles, Anothermullen, CKissee x3, Browns_Scoundrel, Kyrin, GuJiaXian x2, Tyngfumv, Basic_Aim, Mickey Mouse, Berus316, Crisisman, Zoons, Rockfrd, Sterling40 x2, Brucemc, 2007 Magical Mystery Trade, Redskullz x2, Stephengroy, Lyus_Sleyden, Foolforthought, 2008 Magical Mystery Trade, Kilsek x4, Generic Fighter, Auric, Relientkitten x3 Pending trades ( 0 ): WotC trades ( 1 ): Red_Deceiver Bad trades ( 2 ): LeftEyeofGruumsh, Yotebeth | |
| vanrulzz Commander
 2778 Posts



 ¯\(°_o)/¯
 | | 10/20/2007 3:40 PM |
| | i also hate save or die. | | | |
| BigGeorge Sneak
 74 Posts




 | | 10/21/2007 2:25 AM |
| | sorry Nyjastul69 when i took that definition to the DM he pushed it back to me and informed me that one of the bodaks forced the sorcerer to make the save and that i had misheard, the sorcerer never put on the blindfold as i instructed him to (my character actually hastily handed things that could be used as blindfolds to the party) and had only averted his eyes. so i suppose it was pretty much player error as much as anything else. | | | |
| Knight of the Round Table Thenameless Warlord
 12483 Posts



 The Fortress of Solitude
 | | 10/21/2007 4:05 PM |
| Posted By kestrel.ca on 09/04/2007 6:33 AM Inappropriate EL encounters, and a DM who won't change them on the fly. If you need to bump everybody's stats up and give them uber cool equipment just to survive, you're running the adventure improperly. This is essentially it. A well-balanced party should be able to handle most types of monsters if the EL is appropriate. Mind you, on occasion I do enjoy having to decide whether to negotiate or run, as opposed to always fighting and beating the enemy.
| | Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
| Skyscraper Sergeant
 659 Posts



 Montreal
 | | 10/22/2007 1:06 PM |
| Posted By Thenameless on 10/21/2007 4:05 PM Mind you, on occasion I do enjoy having to decide whether to negotiate or run, as opposed to always fighting and beating the enemy.
Likewise at home with my better half.
| | The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
| Knight of the Round Table Thenameless Warlord
 12483 Posts



 The Fortress of Solitude
 | | 10/22/2007 6:48 PM |
| Posted By Skyscraper on 10/22/2007 1:06 PM Posted By Thenameless on 10/21/2007 4:05 PM Mind you, on occasion I do enjoy having to decide whether to negotiate or run, as opposed to always fighting and beating the enemy.
Likewise at home with my better half. This one's not too bad. You just have to remember that you're always wrong.
| | Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
| Master of the Awesome Sauce Teflon Jeff Warlord
 7908 Posts



 Sector 2814
 | | 10/24/2007 1:30 PM |
| Posted By Thenameless on 10/22/2007 6:48 PM Posted By Skyscraper on 10/22/2007 1:06 PM Posted By Thenameless on 10/21/2007 4:05 PM Mind you, on occasion I do enjoy having to decide whether to negotiate or run, as opposed to always fighting and beating the enemy.
Likewise at home with my better half. This one's not too bad. You just have to remember that you're always wrong.
Even if you're right. Most of mine end up with feigned deference, then I do what's best and it all works out anyway. Usually.
| | Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon "Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
|
| | You are not authorized to post a reply. |
|
| |
ActiveForums 3.7 | You must be signed in to participate in the
games. |