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bombur
Sergeant
362 Posts
    
 | | 03/25/2006 8:19 PM |
| And this is why Merric and company are right to insist that we be polite and nice to each other (though I sometimes think his style leaves something to be desired).
http://technology.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,,1737444,00.html
While that particular case took place in the UK, I suspect that the law is similar in any country that bases it's legal system on English Common law (ie the USA, Canada, Australia). The rest of the world may be different, but I suspect not.
(borrowed from Neil Gaiman's blog) | |
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What you need to know about trading with me. | |
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Gristlemane
Sergeant
623 Posts
| | 03/26/2006 12:53 AM |
| | This is especially relevant because since the internet is available to be read anywhere, you can be sued for libel in England. In English law, unlike US law, the defendant of a libel case is guilty until proven innocent. | |
It's deja vu all over again. | |
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smilinIrish
Sergeant
913 Posts
| | 03/26/2006 8:46 PM |
| Some interesting content from the report:
FAQ: Internet libel
Should internet service providers be worried about libel?
The issue of liability was a grey area for ISPs, but a workable system has developed through European and UK law whereby ISPs are not generally considered liable as long as they act to take down potentially libellous material when notified.
Does this affect freedom of speech?
Some have argued that in ISPs' haste to take down material complained about, they are in effect curtailing freedom of speech.
Why haven't more of these cases come to court?
Lawyers say cases between individuals have tended to be settled before reaching court.
What about site owners?
Uncertainty remains over whether a site owner such as the BBC would be liable, particularly if it claimed to moderate comments before they were added to a website.
IMO, there is no such thing as freedom of speech on a private website, just like there is no such thing as freedom of speech at my house. If I (or the owner of the website) don't like what you are saying, I'll make you leave my house (website). This could be different if a website were owned by a governmental agency.
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"Whatever you do, don't drop a blade barrier on a troll."
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3964 Posts
Adelaide
| | 03/26/2006 9:42 PM |
| What tickled my ol funny bone was
quote:
started by describing him as "lard brain" and culminated in falsely labelling him a "Nazi", a "racist bigot" and a "nonce".
So describing him 'lard brain' wasn't false? lol!
More seriously though:
quote:
"They started saying I was on a sex offenders' list and that people shouldn't let me near their children," said Mr Keith-Smith, who is also chairman of the Conservative Democratic Alliance, which bills itself as "the leading voice of the radical Tory right".
Calling someone a pedophile should be libelable, and is a very low way of dealing with someone.
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"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: "In the age of the internet attaching a famous name to your personal opinion to give more weight to it is a very valid strategy." - Benjamin Franklin
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
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Fun Guy from Yuggoth
Cthulhufnord
Warlord
11113 Posts
Umass Amherst Baby!
| | 03/27/2006 5:56 PM |
| Ugh. [:p]
While I agree it's nice to have a area of the internet that is largely Troll-Free 10,000 pounds seems to be way to much of an over-reaction. I'm all for Troll squashing but having the Government/Legal system step in like that seems pretty scary to me. This issue should have been brought up with Yahoo...
And I thought the US was too litigation-friendly. [:p] | |
Pathetic Earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void - without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here. If you had known anything about the true nature of the universe - anything at all - you would have hidden from it in terror. | |
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Felagund
Sergeant
922 Posts
| | 03/27/2006 6:09 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by smilinIrish
IMO, there is no such thing as freedom of speech on a private website, just like there is no such thing as freedom of speech at my house. If I (or the owner of the website) don't like what you are saying, I'll make you leave my house (website). This could be different if a website were owned by a governmental agency.
Now, I'd disagree with you there. My freedom of speech is just as good in your house (assuming you're also in the US) as it is anywhere else in this country. If I say something you dislike, you can certainly insist that I leave. You can't bring charges against me for it, however. (Presuming it was not slanderous or otherwise not protected by free speech laws). Websites are the same.
If you don't believe in free speech on the Internet, whose agenda/creed do you consider ourselves subject to? | |
Champion of Gnomes | |
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sage_raistlin
Sergeant
377 Posts
| | 03/27/2006 7:13 PM |
| alright all you yellow bellied, oops sorry ..
Honestly though, name calling is something that happens all the time and making fun of someone is always going to happen. I just recently lost my job after bring up how I was being treated by my manager and some of the thing he had said about me behind my back in writing no less and I still was the one that got shafted.
It's a long shot to nail anyone for saying stuff about you and it not really worth the small chance at the payout/feeling better to even bother with it. I thing most of the time we are a decent group that respects each other, there are times things get out of hand, but the mod's keep use in line over it.
I think if anyhintg comes of it, it's a good remindered to just treat each other with respect and allow one another to present their point of view without attacking them over it. | |
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FeranEldritchKnight
Sergeant
385 Posts
Kansas City, MO USA
| | 03/27/2006 11:07 PM |
| Sounds like I need to join WotC just for the libel money! ΖD] Oops, is that libel too? [xx(]
It's like my boss told me recently- if you're going to stir up trouble because of something that was said, be SURE you can win the fight. Things like "open door policies" and "cannot retaliate by law" only apply if you can proove your side. But I guess that's the thing about libel- it's in print somewhere, and as long as you can proove who wrote it, your case is won. | |
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| *censored*
glumag
Warlord
5968 Posts
| | 03/28/2006 9:08 AM |
| I really hope there is a very special place in hell for people who sue over ridiculous crap like that. Stick and stones...[eyes]
You can only be offended by name-calling if you happen to believe you ARE what they are calling you; if you know you are not then, who gives a ****?
Politeness do indeed matter but not in a medium like the internet. Chats between private citizens, via chatrooms, blogs, forums, etc. should not matter [eyes]
Modern culture and society are turning into a big toilet and it is time to flush. | |
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sage_raistlin
Sergeant
377 Posts
| | 03/28/2006 11:08 AM |
| quote:
Modern culture and society are turning into a big toilet and it is time to flush
I have always wondered where that smell was coming from...... | |
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Felagund
Sergeant
922 Posts
| | 03/28/2006 11:38 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by glumag
I really hope there is a very special place in hell for people who sue over ridiculous crap like that. Stick and stones...[eyes]
You can only be offended by name-calling if you happen to believe you ARE what they are calling you; if you know you are not then, who gives a ****?
I think that you're belittling the situation as presented in the article. There's a big difference between saying someone else is a doodie-head and accusing them of being a Nazi and a registered sex offender. IMO, that lady deserved to be sued. Intentionally spreading lies about someone is much more serious than a simple flame war of exchanged name-calling. | |
Champion of Gnomes | |
| *censored*
glumag
Warlord
5968 Posts
| | 03/28/2006 3:20 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Felagund
quote:
Originally posted by glumag
I really hope there is a very special place in hell for people who sue over ridiculous crap like that. Stick and stones...[eyes]
You can only be offended by name-calling if you happen to believe you ARE what they are calling you; if you know you are not then, who gives a ****?
I think that you're belittling the situation as presented in the article. There's a big difference between saying someone else is a doodie-head and accusing them of being a Nazi and a registered sex offender. IMO, that lady deserved to be sued. Intentionally spreading lies about someone is much more serious than a simple flame war of exchanged name-calling.
I understand the level of offense some might take from being called a child molester since those are the lowest of the scum of the earth and perhaps that warranted some equally degrading and inflammatory reply but suing over that? just because she says it doesn't make it real.
The context in which she presented her accusations left little room for truth since the argument was clearly escalating into a flame war and all those ended up clearly being unbased insults and nothing more. He has the right to sue and whatever but doing it under that context was ridiculous imho. The Nazi comments were just stupid and should’ve been perceived as such. I mean, she went from fat-head to child molestor for pete's sake, can anyone take her seriously?
To me suing someone over a flame war is stupid, unfortunately might be legal, but still stupid. If she was part of some credible organization or like anything media related and it was an official statement then I can see him suing the tampon off of her.
I am not defending her at all cuz I can give 2 ***** about what happens to her, I am just sick and tired of hearing about frivolous law suits over garbage reasons. In a society when one who clearly is not but got called a Nazi gets awarded 10K but someone who got into a car accident and has legit medical expenses, a herniated spinal disc and pain and suffering for 7 years gets the run around for those same years just because it was not a "publicized" article, their lawyers have more money and experience, she decided to have a kid in between cuz she was getting too old to wait and "since she can push a child out she must be just fine" it is bulls***.
My complain is about a society that lets that happen, not belittling the bruise ego of some guy who can't brush off a clear lie and respond in kind manner. | |
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Felagund
Sergeant
922 Posts
| | 03/28/2006 6:03 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by glumag
The context in which she presented her accusations left little room for truth since the argument was clearly escalating into a flame war and all those ended up clearly being unbased insults and nothing more. He has the right to sue and whatever but doing it under that context was ridiculous imho. The Nazi comments were just stupid and should’ve been perceived as such. I mean, she went from fat-head to child molestor for pete's sake, can anyone take her seriously?
To me suing someone over a flame war is stupid, unfortunately might be legal, but still stupid. If she was part of some credible organization or like anything media related and it was an official statement then I can see him suing the tampon off of her.
Believability shouldn't really factor into whether something is considered libel or not. After all, who's to say what people will believe, especially online? I bet you could probably get a significant portion of the Maxminis community to believe outrageous lies about me, if you wanted to set your mind to it. I just hope that lawsuits like this will help to prevent future situations such as this from arising. | |
Champion of Gnomes | |
| *censored*
glumag
Warlord
5968 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 4:07 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Felagund
quote:
Originally posted by glumag
The context in which she presented her accusations left little room for truth since the argument was clearly escalating into a flame war and all those ended up clearly being unbased insults and nothing more. He has the right to sue and whatever but doing it under that context was ridiculous imho. The Nazi comments were just stupid and should’ve been perceived as such. I mean, she went from fat-head to child molestor for pete's sake, can anyone take her seriously?
To me suing someone over a flame war is stupid, unfortunately might be legal, but still stupid. If she was part of some credible organization or like anything media related and it was an official statement then I can see him suing the tampon off of her.
Believability shouldn't really factor into whether something is considered libel or not. After all, who's to say what people will believe, especially online? I bet you could probably get a significant portion of the Maxminis community to believe outrageous lies about me, if you wanted to set your mind to it. I just hope that lawsuits like this will help to prevent future situations such as this from arising.
I just hope lawsuits like this are another nail in the coffin they should bury frivolous lawsuits in.
Everyone has their points of view and I respect you want to make the world a better place. But by moderating what people can and cannot say about each other in a casual environment, no good in my book. Flame wars happen and will continue happening; ridiculous laws that protect highly sensitive people just creates a worse place, imho.
There is always something that will bother someone somewhere, so if you keep giving in to this crap eventually everything could be restricted and your freedom highly censored, policed and monitored.
Once again, not protecting the whole defamation of character on the child molester part, but the overall hippie peace and love don't call me names cuz I get hurt easy crap.
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Felagund
Sergeant
922 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 4:31 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by glumag
Everyone has their points of view and I respect you want to make the world a better place. But by moderating what people can and cannot say about each other in a casual environment, no good in my book. Flame wars happen and will continue happening; ridiculous laws that protect highly sensitive people just creates a worse place, imho.
There is always something that will bother someone somewhere, so if you keep giving in to this crap eventually everything could be restricted and your freedom highly censored, policed and monitored.
I think we just have differing opinions on the how serious the incidents in the article were. (And they really didn't go into enough detail to tell for certain.)
I don't see libel laws as a threat to freedom of expression. For me, the distinction is fairly simple. You should be able to express whatever opinions you want about me, however negative they are. (Felagund is an idiot, Felagund is evil, Felagund is worse than Hitler, etc.) You shouldn't be able to spread lies about me (Felagund flunked out of school, Felagund stole my car, Felagund has a shrine to Hitler in his basement, etc.) | |
Champion of Gnomes | |
| *censored*
glumag
Warlord
5968 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 8:40 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Felagund
quote:
Originally posted by glumag
Everyone has their points of view and I respect you want to make the world a better place. But by moderating what people can and cannot say about each other in a casual environment, no good in my book. Flame wars happen and will continue happening; ridiculous laws that protect highly sensitive people just creates a worse place, imho.
There is always something that will bother someone somewhere, so if you keep giving in to this crap eventually everything could be restricted and your freedom highly censored, policed and monitored.
I think we just have differing opinions on the how serious the incidents in the article were. (And they really didn't go into enough detail to tell for certain.)
I don't see libel laws as a threat to freedom of expression. For me, the distinction is fairly simple. You should be able to express whatever opinions you want about me, however negative they are. (Felagund is an idiot, Felagund is evil, Felagund is worse than Hitler, etc.) You shouldn't be able to spread lies about me (Felagund flunked out of school, Felagund stole my car, Felagund has a shrine to Hitler in his basement, etc.)
but if you are worse than Hitler why would you have a shrine of him in your basement? [)]
Hey, different views is what makes things interesting [:D] Let's just wait and see how things turn out in the future, I am assuming the 20 years should be interesting in laws just as the past 20 years have radically changed in a lot of aspects I really hate about society. | |
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Felagund
Sergeant
922 Posts
| | 03/30/2006 2:56 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by glumag
but if you are worse than Hitler why would you have a shrine of him in your basement? [)]
Well, you gotta give props, right? [:o)]
quote:
Hey, different views is what makes things interesting [:D] Let's just wait and see how things turn out in the future, I am assuming the 20 years should be interesting in laws just as the past 20 years have radically changed in a lot of aspects I really hate about society.
Very true. We definitely live in interesting times. | |
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