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shadroth
Warrior
210 Posts
    
 | | 03/29/2006 11:33 AM |
| ... well at least that is what alot of Christian folks think. They were especially vocal about it during the 80's. Anyway, in a recent thread over in general discussion:
http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=17904
it seems that we have alot of Christians posting on these boards. I'm interested to know if you guys get alot of grief from your Christian peers regarding your D&D activities. As striderlotr mentioned at the start of the thread, there is still alot of concern over demons and such. Left over from the anti-D&D hype during the 80's I guess ... | |
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griffrat
Commander
3506 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 11:39 AM |
| Growing up here in the northern part of the "bible belt" D&D still has the main stigma of devil worship. As striderlotr, points out, that the more people that are aware that the majority of us are "normal" people and are respected for our choice of profession or being just a good person (i.e. spending time involved with coaching/youth groups).
I am interested in this topic as at the FLGS here in K.C. there is a newcomer to the area (from Boston) and was very much surprised of how hard it is to try and find a game group at church. So I am interested in seeing what other people's D&D stories are....[:D] | |
Ambassador of FUN!!! | |
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shadroth
Warrior
210 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 11:57 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by griffrat
Growing up here in the northern part of the "bible belt" D&D still has the main stigma of devil worship. As striderlotr, points out, that the more people that are aware that the majority of us are "normal" people and are respected for our choice of profession or being just a good person (i.e. spending time involved with coaching/youth groups).
I suspect though that showing D&D gamers to be "normal" people would have little impact on those christians who think the game is evil. I don't think christians think D&D players are losers, they just think we're going to hell, right? | |
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Count Dooku
Commander
4636 Posts
New York
| | 03/29/2006 12:13 PM |
| One of my former players was a Born-Again Christian.
She played in total secrecy...Would'nt tell her parents or anyone. All her books were kept at my house...It was very sad.
How many games and movies out there have demons and magic? Hundreds? Thousands?
Only D&D really has the Devil-Worship stigma.
I have heard about church groups complaining about Harry Potter teaching young children about witches and magic and being evil.
One person responded by saying "Its only a story for children. Its fairy-tale fantasy. Its not like these kids will worship the devil or play Dungeons & Dragons."........ouch.
99.999% of people who think D&D is devil worship have no idea how its played. Im not alking about "They dont know what die to roll". Im talking about "They dont know die are used".
The ignorant people who have personally asked me what D&D is or how to play have honestly had these misconceptions (theres are different people. One person didnt think all of these things).
- Spells must be cast by saying the Verbal Component aloud.
- Spells and the verbal components are copied directly out of "real" spellbooks like the Necronomicon.
- A Wee-Jee Board is used (sorry I cant spell the word)
- Players light candles and have to wear black
- Players run around the woods, sewers, abandoned buildings pretending to really be their characters.
- Being a character in the D&D world requires a ceremony where a player feels emotionally bonded to their character so sickness and death of their character convinces the player to feel the same way (hence the suicide if your character dies).
I have never met a single Anti-D&D person who thought the game was devil worship and had the slightest clue how to play.
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Champion of the Skulk
Vindicated Champion of the Twig Blight | |
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Count Dooku
Commander
4636 Posts
New York
| | 03/29/2006 12:14 PM |
| Is it true that these ignorant people who think D&D is the Devil's game are restricted to the USA?
Ive heard that other countries dont have to deal with this form of stupidity. | |
Champion of the Skulk
Vindicated Champion of the Twig Blight | |
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Felagund
Sergeant
922 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 12:15 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by shadroth
[quote]I don't think christians think D&D players are losers, they just think we're going to hell, right?
The Christians think most people are going to hell. Even if you played a paladin. [:)] | |
Champion of Gnomes | |
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B
Underboss
1189 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 12:19 PM |
| | Well, I live in a fairly small city in a somewhat religious portion of Canada and I can honestly say that I have never experienced anyone saying that D&D was evil. I've had people say that it was geeky, but not evil. So far I've been lucky enough to get in groups that are long lasting. I think my longest without a game was 6 months. Over 14 yrs that's not bad [:D] | |
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.--Dylan Thomas
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Username
Warlord
5636 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 12:37 PM |
| Born again Christian here that collects DnD, but doesn't play only because there is no one around here to play with (or at least I haven't found any, but I'm not looking too hard).
I just want to set something straight before any 'going to hell' talk starts running amuck: don't make assumptions that all Christians think alike, just like how all DnD players aren't the same.
From what I believe is true, a person doesn't go to hell by playing a game, telling a lie, or even committing murder. A person goes to hell by choosing not to acknowledge and believe that Jesus Christ died for the sins of the world. Going to heaven is accomplished by choosing to acknowledge that sacrifice. You aren't born into it, you don't earn it, and you can't buy it. God's (2nd) greatest gift is a free will.
If you want to know more/call me out/cuss me out/agree with me, feel free to message me. | |
Originally posted by Schooly_D
Username - he deals in minis
Champion of Lhesh Haruuc Shaarat'kor | |
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Username
Warlord
5636 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 12:38 PM |
| Count,
Ignorance and preconceived notions are a terrible thing. I'm sure it's everywhere. | |
Originally posted by Schooly_D
Username - he deals in minis
Champion of Lhesh Haruuc Shaarat'kor | |
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Count Dooku
Commander
4636 Posts
New York
| | 03/29/2006 12:44 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Username
Count,
Ignorance and preconceived notions are a terrible thing. I'm sure it's everywhere.
Oh Im sure its everywhere. But alot of times when this topic comes up there will be someone from Australia or New Zealand or somewhere who says "You Yanks are crazy. I didnt even know about D&D=Devil Worship."
I never sterio-type any religion. Some people are more strict than others. Its not the person's religion...Its how fanatical they are about certain topics...and you need to get to know them to figure that out :)
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Champion of the Skulk
Vindicated Champion of the Twig Blight | |
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Username
Warlord
5636 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 12:49 PM |
| I personally believe it's a vocal minority. Like most of the world, many just don't care if you play or not.
Also, I think those uneducated about DnD, Potter, He-Man, Smurfs, etc just listen to one, loud, charismatic voice and take that to heart. Sheep can be dangerous. | |
Originally posted by Schooly_D
Username - he deals in minis
Champion of Lhesh Haruuc Shaarat'kor | |
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johnny.quest
Underboss
1341 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 1:09 PM |
| | It's all Jack Chick's fault. | | | |
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shadroth
Warrior
210 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 1:13 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Count Dooku
Is it true that these ignorant people who think D&D is the Devil's game are restricted to the USA?
Ive heard that other countries dont have to deal with this form of stupidity.
I'm from Australia and the D&D = Devil Worship problem was very prominant there. I think it's safe to say that any country where there is both Christianity and D&D the problem exists. | |
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Fun Guy from Yuggoth
Cthulhufnord
Warlord
10802 Posts
Umass Amherst Baby!
| | 03/29/2006 1:16 PM |
| Don't let Tom Hanks off the hook either.[)]
quote:
Originally posted by johnny.quest
It's all Jack Chick's fault.
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Pathetic Earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void - without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here. If you had known anything about the true nature of the universe - anything at all - you would have hidden from it in terror. | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10288 Posts
United States
| | 03/29/2006 1:32 PM |
| I've played since the early 80s. My sons play. One of my older son's friends has a very narrow-minded mother who believes (really), that Wizards of the Coast is about as evil as it gets. She did "research" showing that Wizards employees consulted with witches and druids and made sure the spells were "real."
Etc., etc.
This kid was allowed to play Star Wars, and was allowed to play any D&D-like d20 game that didn't have magic in it. (His mom knows he's a big fan of Greek mythology and so figured that part of the game was okay.)
It's taken a while, but she's coming around to see that she's wrong.
My approach with her began like this: "I wouldn't want some other parent disrespecting my authority over what I allow my kids to do, so I won't disrespect your authority. My son plays these games, and he's happy to modify them so that there's no magic in them, so that your son can play too." She agreed.
Time passed. Now, he can play more and more such games.
He can play the minis game, but he's not allowed to build warbands that are evil, or that contain evil figures.
So, I've found that accomodating the nay-sayers, and trying to find areas of agreement, has been fairly successful.
This kid isn't the only one in my area facing these issues. I'd gone through the rounds before with two other kids and their mother.
Fortunately, nobody's burned down my house or attacked my kids or anything. So far, it's been civil. I find that it's better to fight fire with water than with more fire. (And, better yet, to let the fire burn itself out.)
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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shadroth
Warrior
210 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 1:41 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Username
I personally believe it's a vocal minority. Like most of the world, many just don't care if you play or not.
It may be a vocal minority but if they're the only ones doing the talking then they're the only ones the christian community is hearing. As a scientist, I have a similar problem with the creationist. Since they tend to be very vocal compared to the scientists (who would understandably rather just get on with their research rather than get involved in politics) you can end up with situations like the one in Kansas where unfortunately the school boards only heard a one-sides story. Anyway, we're not talking about that here ...
What I am saying is that if there were more vocal D&D playing Christians, then perhaps people could be more educated. Of course this would be leaving yourself very open for attack. | |
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griffrat
Commander
3506 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 1:58 PM |
| Just got out of class and had to share as this topic is still going and still civil. Not a surprise there!! [:D]
I have family members that are in the ilk of D&D=devil. With that being said no matter what I say or do as long as the books are in my possession it is a signed accord with the guy from the burning place.
It has passed on to the children of this side of the family. When I got out of the military, and in the dark ages before DDM, I was working on a GW black dragon. Well, I had just super glued some of the body parts in place and had to hold the model in place at the same time the door bell rang.
As I went to the door I saw that it was my cousin (who is about four years older than I am) and his son who at the time was 5. I yelled the door was open and they came in and as we talked the super glue cured and I set the model on the table.
The little boys eyes peeled back and the ooh of a little boy is priceless. The words that came out next shocks me to this day.
Dad: What is that Jacob?
Son: A dragon, and the devil.
If it wasn't so wierd it would have ben one of those moments where I would have wanted to give the little tike a hug or rough his hair.
Fast forward right at three years. Same group of family at the time where the group meets my wife (then girlfriend) for the first time. This side of the fam is just happy as clams about her and I being together. This reason is that she teaches (at least at that time) at a very exclusive private Catholic school.
Now fast forward another two years to the wedding. The fam is all impressed with the selection of music at the reception. Then this side of the family is shocked to the realizartion of the dark side of the wife and that her most loved artist in the world is Rob Zombie....
All this goes to show that what you are into and what you worship do not have to be mutually exclusive things.....education is the greatest tool. A mind is a terrible thing to waste..... | |
Ambassador of FUN!!! | |
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Felagund
Sergeant
922 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 1:58 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Username
From what I believe is true, a person doesn't go to hell by playing a game, telling a lie, or even committing murder. A person goes to hell by choosing not to acknowledge and believe that Jesus Christ died for the sins of the world. Going to heaven is accomplished by choosing to acknowledge that sacrifice.
My interpretation is that people go to Hell because of sin, and the only way to be free from sin is to ask Christ to cleanse you of it. Pretty similar, though.
Either way:
Gandhi=Hell
Jeffrey Dahmer=Heaven | |
Champion of Gnomes | |
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Username
Warlord
5636 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 2:05 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Felagund
My interpretation is that people go to Hell because of sin, and the only way to be free from sin is to ask Christ to cleanse you of it. Pretty similar, though.
The same, just worded differently. | |
Originally posted by Schooly_D
Username - he deals in minis
Champion of Lhesh Haruuc Shaarat'kor | |
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sage_raistlin
Sergeant
377 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 3:24 PM |
| ah man I guess I need to take down my upside down cross and pentagrams...
Honestly, I'm not sure if any of you know this, the British Navy, IIRC, had to add the church of satan, or something similar, to thier offical listings of religions as one of the sailors worshiped this. I read the story about a year ago and I did a mild bit of research into it just for giggles. I was surprised to find they had a set of ten commandments that wasn't what I expected. I was surprised to find some of them where very close to the ten that are in the bible.
Not that I care one either way about it, but I found it rather amusing that they were so close.
For thoses that want to throw a fit over D & D it's just a game and there are far more worse things your kids could be doing with thier time. | |
Hello Boys, I'm Back
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Username
Warlord
5636 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 3:32 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by sage_raistlin
ah man I guess I need to take down my upside down cross and pentagrams...
Honestly, I'm not sure if any of you know this, the British Navy, IIRC, had to add the church of satan, or something similar, to thier offical listings of religions as one of the sailors worshiped this. I read the story about a year ago and I did a mild bit of research into it just for giggles. I was surprised to find they had a set of ten commandments that wasn't what I expected. I was surprised to find some of them where very close to the ten that are in the bible.
Not that I care one either way about it, but I found it rather amusing that they were so close.
For thoses that want to throw a fit over D & D it's just a game and there are far more worse things your kids could be doing with thier time.
Jedi in Australia-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/2218456.stm | |
Originally posted by Schooly_D
Username - he deals in minis
Champion of Lhesh Haruuc Shaarat'kor | |
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Felagund
Sergeant
922 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 3:39 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Username
Jedi in Australia-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/2218456.stm
Very interesting. I think they should go ahead and make it an official religion. Scientology is, after all. | |
Champion of Gnomes | |
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BigBC
Sergeant
620 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 3:52 PM |
| | It's funny to see this topic as I was in Wal-Mart just a few days ago and looked in the cheap DVD bin. There's Tom Hanks staring back at me from the cover of that 'Mazes and Monsters' movie he made back in the 80's. I almost bought it for sh!ts and giggles, but passed it up. Maybe I should go back and see if its still there just so I can laugh at the absurdity of it. [)] | |
Complete: Ha, De, Ar, GoL, Ab, Dk, Af, Ud, WD, DQ, BW
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Champion of the Gibberling | |
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Count Dooku
Commander
4636 Posts
New York
| | 03/29/2006 4:04 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by BigBC
It's funny to see this topic as I was in Wal-Mart just a few days ago and looked in the cheap DVD bin. There's Tom Hanks staring back at me from the cover of that 'Mazes and Monsters' movie he made back in the 80's. I almost bought it for sh!ts and giggles, but passed it up. Maybe I should go back and see if its still there just so I can laugh at the absurdity of it. [)]
You know I never saw that movie. Never ever heard about it till I started posting on WotC's forums.
Is it like the Jack Chick comic? | |
Champion of the Skulk
Vindicated Champion of the Twig Blight | |
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scifirules
Sergeant
354 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 4:17 PM |
| quote:
I'm interested to know if you guys get alot of grief from your Christian peers regarding your D&D activities.
I haven't meant anyone who had a real problem with it, but if someone at church asks me about my hobbies ("So, kid, ya got any hobbies?"), I'm always a bit hesitant to say that I play Dungeons & Dragons because, knowing my luck, the person I'm talking to would hose me with holy water and toss me out the door. Not the most pleasant experience...
My father can be a bit of a jerk about it sometimes. He even asked me, "That game's not gonna turn you into an axe murderer, is it?" He was just joking, but I had to keep myself from screaming at him.
My mother was also a bit worried when I started playing, since she mentioned something about a documentary from the '70s that said D&D was satannic. She doesn't have much of a problem with it any more.
Heck, I only play the skirmish game! | |
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memphisto
Warrior
213 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 4:24 PM |
| I'm a Christian and I don't believe D&D is evil, nor do I have any knowledge or belief that Gandhi is going to hell (I'll think I better leave that whole "judgment" thing up to God) [)]
Four of five friends that I grew up gaming with were, and still are, Christians. When we were little, one of my friend's parents didn't want him playing D&D because of the whole eville/deville thing, but they relaxed on this stance when, I believe, they learned more about the game. There will always be people who think D&D is evil, but they probably have no understanding that it's just a game, or perhaps the mere concept of D&D itself is an affront to their socio-religious sensibilities, so it's easy for them to label it as evil. | |
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Felagund
Sergeant
922 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 4:33 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by scifirules
[quote]My father can be a bit of a jerk about it sometimes. He even asked me, "That game's not gonna turn you into an axe murderer, is it?" He was just joking, but I had to keep myself from screaming at him.
"Knives are more efficient." That's what I would have said. [:D] | |
Champion of Gnomes | |
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Felagund
Sergeant
922 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 4:41 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by memphisto
I'm a Christian and I don't believe D&D is evil, nor do I have any knowledge or belief that Gandhi is going to hell (I'll think I better leave that whole "judgment" thing up to God) [)]
Well, you're a dissenter just like me. [)]
And besides, "you go to Hell if you don't join us" is the main selling point of the religion! I mean, every belief system has a heaven, so you gotta stay competetive somehow. It's a tough market. [:)] | |
Champion of Gnomes | |
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Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7146 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 03/29/2006 4:57 PM |
| speaking as a pretty devout christian, who is also a pretty hardcore gamer, I was shocked [:0] to find out that we weren't worshipping satan. [)]
Seriously, I've had some obstacles with family, especially with my in-laws. My wife just doesn't like the amount of time it takes away from her/family, but she doesn't have a hobby, so we're working on that. But my grandparents back in the day, and my mother-in-law, have both been rather ignorant.
It took them seeing me as still a good, upstanding christian citizen to make them realize that I/D&D wasn't secretly evil. | |
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Amator
Sneak
116 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 6:14 PM |
| I'm Eastern Orthodox, and have never had a problem. One of my local priests played D&D in high school and the other probably spent at least four figures in D&D books and MTG cards over the years for his five adult children when raising them. Of course, he used to read Tolkien to his children from birth, so I guess he knew they'd grow up with a healthy appreciation for fantasy.
I've never seen a problem with Catholics, Anglicans, or Lutherans, either. Mostly, it seems to be Evangelicals who have a collective fit over harmless fantasy. I live in the same city as Bob Jones University, and you'll still get the fire and brimstone from any of those guys over the games, but that's the South.
The only thing either of my priests has ever had against d&d is that the time involved with creating characters, stories, etc is a lot of time that could be spent doing better things. I always remind them to make sure they tell the guys into Golf and college football the same thing. :)
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Champion of Szass Tam | |
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3858 Posts
Adelaide
| | 03/29/2006 6:39 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Count Dooku
Is it true that these ignorant people who think D&D is the Devil's game are restricted to the USA?
Ive heard that other countries dont have to deal with this form of stupidity.
Defiantly in Australia too.
quote:
shadroth:
I think it's safe to say that any country where there is both Christianity and D&D the problem exists.
Very true.
~
As I have posted before, the church group I was involved in my youth made me burn my D&D and RPG stuff to exorcise the demons from it.
By make, I mean told me if I was a real christian and wanted to avoid going to hell for being unrepented of my sins, I would need to destroy the D&D materials and other satanic tools.
But they were fine with me later RPG marvel hereos with it's false gods like Thor .
D&D still very much has that stimga. I blame Jack chick and sewer systems :)
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"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3858 Posts
Adelaide
| | 03/29/2006 6:45 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Felagund
quote:
Originally posted by Username
From what I believe is true, a person doesn't go to hell by playing a game, telling a lie, or even committing murder. A person goes to hell by choosing not to acknowledge and believe that Jesus Christ died for the sins of the world. Going to heaven is accomplished by choosing to acknowledge that sacrifice.
My interpretation is that people go to Hell because of sin, and the only way to be free from sin is to ask Christ to cleanse you of it. Pretty similar, though.
Either way:
Gandhi=Hell
Jeffrey Dahmer=Heaven
I always thought (or what I believe is true) the crux of christainty was that god made all of us sinners and doomed us all to torture and later changed his mind and if we agree with him we go to heaven. | |
"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: "In the age of the internet attaching a famous name to your personal opinion to give more weight to it is a very valid strategy." - Benjamin Franklin
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
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memphisto
Warrior
213 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 6:58 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Bert the Troll
quote:
Originally posted by Felagund
quote:
Originally posted by Username
From what I believe is true, a person doesn't go to hell by playing a game, telling a lie, or even committing murder. A person goes to hell by choosing not to acknowledge and believe that Jesus Christ died for the sins of the world. Going to heaven is accomplished by choosing to acknowledge that sacrifice.
My interpretation is that people go to Hell because of sin, and the only way to be free from sin is to ask Christ to cleanse you of it. Pretty similar, though.
Either way:
Gandhi=Hell
Jeffrey Dahmer=Heaven
I always thought (or what I believe is true) the crux of christainty was that god made all of us sinners and doomed us all to torture and later changed his mind and if we agree with him we go to heaven.
Zealotry begets cynicism and alienation, no doubt. It forever has and will continue to do so. Reading about your experiences with book-burners made me sad. [:(] | |
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yack
Commander
3164 Posts
Gatineau Canada
| | 03/29/2006 8:11 PM |
| When I was younger in the 80's playing I remember my moms friends saying it was evil and they should not let me play. We all played at my parents place and she was like "I watch them play, they attack devils and demons not join them".[:D]
But then again I was raised on Kiss, Black Sabbath and Motley Crue..[:p] | |
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sage_raistlin
Sergeant
377 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 8:17 PM |
| quote:
It's funny to see this topic as I was in Wal-Mart just a few days ago and looked in the cheap DVD bin. There's Tom Hanks staring back at me from the cover of that 'Mazes and Monsters' movie he made back in the 80's. I almost bought it for sh!ts and giggles, but passed it up. Maybe I should go back and see if its still there just so I can laugh at the absurdity of it.
That made me giggle, I saw it a few days ago there myself. If I had a job I might have picked it up for a good ROTFL | |
Hello Boys, I'm Back
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shadroth
Warrior
210 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 8:58 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Count Dooku
One of my former players was a Born-Again Christian.
She played in total secrecy...Would'nt tell her parents or anyone. All her books were kept at my house...It was very sad.
Okay, time for my story, sad as it is. I grew up in a fundamental Baptist Christian home. When I started getting into D&D during my teens my parents forbade me from playing the game. They used silly arguments though. For example, they would say "Is it for God or against God?". This of course makes no sense. It is like asking is playing Tennis for or against God. Also, they went on about how it was full of magic and magic is evil. They would then sit down to enjoy reruns of Bewitched and read Lord of the Rings. This double-standard made even less sense. So, like the girl mentioned by Count Dooku, I played in absolute secrecy. I would go to my friends houses on weekends saying we were watching movies when in fact we were playing D&D. Seriously, my father would have thrashed my hide if he knew.
The worst things I did was to host a D&D session at my house when my parents went away for the weekend. They allowed me to have a friend stay over while they were away. Little did they know when my friend came over to the house before they left that his bag was stuffed with D&D manuals and that he would be the DM at a huge D&D session at their house the next day. The following morning, all the invited people arrived, about 20 in all, for an all day gaming session. It was loads of fun, although I kept my eye on the driveway like a hawk in case my parents came home early. Let me tell you, if they came home to see what was going on, it would have been far better for me had we all been having a wild drunken sex orgy!
Anyway, I went through the motions of being told by everyone that the game was evil, etc, etc. I even gave the game up on one or two occasions, only to get back into it when I came to my senses and realised that these people were speaking horse-shit. I've left religion behind me these days and am no longer a Christian. Even so, I am always very interested in the whole issue of Christians (not all I know) condemning D&D considering the expeeriences I had with it growing up.
quote:
Originally posted by Count Dooku
- Players run around the woods, sewers, abandoned buildings pretending to really be their characters.
My wife was one of the people who thought this was true, until I set her straight. | |
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Username
Warlord
5636 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 10:38 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Bert the Troll
I always thought (or what I believe is true) the crux of christainty was that god made all of us sinners and doomed us all to torture and later changed his mind and if we agree with him we go to heaven.
That believe makes as much sense as a parent giving birth to a child just to torture it and watch it die. I'm sorry you feel that way, but that is totally false.
Actually, God made humans perfect, and then we chose to screw things up, and then God made a Way for it to be right again. There is a choice to be made.
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Originally posted by Schooly_D
Username - he deals in minis
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3858 Posts
Adelaide
| | 03/29/2006 10:56 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Username
quote:
Originally posted by Bert the Troll
I always thought (or what I believe is true) the crux of christianity was that god made all of us sinners and doomed us all to torture and later changed his mind and if we agree with him we go to heaven.
That believe makes as much sense as a parent giving birth to a child just to torture it and watch it die. I'm sorry you feel that way, but that is totally false.
Yes. Yes it does make as much sense as doing that.
It is also the view point I see the most scriptural support for.
quote:
Actually, God made humans perfect, and then we chose to screw things up, and then God made a Way for it to be right again. There is a choice to be made.
Depends on whether you believe in an inerrant bible or not I guess. And less so, if you believe in a god or not.
And then it depends on what particular christian faith you hold to. As they have quite wide spread variations between different sects. I don't assume all christians are the same, and I try even less to judge which ones might be biblically right in thier viewpoints.
But maybe we shouldn't debate religion over much, as it tends to cause more controversy than cherry picking.
A lot of people find it hard to discuss such issues with taking it onboard as a personal attack. That said, if we can keep it at a rational level I`d have no problems continuing it :/
At least we can both agree that D&D isn't devil worship :) | |
"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
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tomas
Sergeant
531 Posts
Spicer, MN
| | 03/30/2006 1:35 AM |
| My experience growing up with my parents was along the lines of "It's okay as long as you don't use demons or devils." I was fine with that, so we played. It also helped when, ironically enough, both of my pastors (they were married) played D&D, so when my parents asked them, they had a pretty rational response.
My response now to people who come at me with this attitude is to compare D&D to a video game. When you sit at a TV with a game, no matter if it's shooting a gun or driving a car, you are "pretending" to be there. D&D is not any different except the pretending involves your own imagination (and cool minis) and the imagination of the DM.
I am a "not-exactly-born-again" Christian. Hey, the whole reason Christ came is that we're not all perfect, and God needs us to be perfect to let us into Heaven. Even well-meaning Christians make mistakes, just like non-Christians. I guess I'll forgive them that, even if they choose not to forgive me for playing D&D. There is a Biblical basis, most from Old Testament verses talking about rituals and religious symbolism, that does back up what these people say. And, I'm not one to judge the Bible - to me doing that is judging the Author of the Book, which I'm not qualified to do. Because of this, I do struggle at times with whether or not I should be spending my time on D&D. I've come to the realization that the Lord is concerned with what a person's #1 priority is - that it should be God. What comes after that is between God and that person, although valid arguments can be made for putting family and vocation pretty high on that list. The main idea is that you are not a slave to anything EXCEPT God. That is pretty universal, no matter which Christian denomination you choose.
Of course, for those who don't believe in God, or that believe that there are many ways into Heaven, my responses are going to seem like gibberish. That's fine. We can have further discussions about that any time. | |
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zenthrus
Commander
4834 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 03/30/2006 1:40 AM |
| This discussion always gives me a chuckle [:D]
I'll keep a lot of my thoughts to myself (to avoid the lynch mob)since I have a pretty specific view of the universe and have studied religions intently...
Two points: Mormons have a reputation for being zealous, misguided Christians. In roughly 20 years of gaming in Salt Lake City, Utah (city/state founded by Mormons) I've only run into people equating D&D (or other gaming, particularly LARP) as devil worship. Once was in a discussion with several friends who are Muslim. The other time was in a discussion with two "Holy-Rollers" (Baptists) in high school. I've known people with a wide variety of faiths/ideologies (Muslim, Buddhist, Tibetan Buddhist, Taoist, various Christian sects, satanists, anarchists, scientologists, intellectual elitists, etc.) and the primary comment about D&D isn't that it's evil, it's that it's dorky/nerdy/lame/bizarre.
Most Christians around here laugh off things like "Mazes and Monsters" as the silliness that they are. Granted I've found that there is a surprisingly enormous Tolkein/Star Wars following out here and people who fall into those fan categories are substantially more tolerant towards gaming in general.
Anywho, if Ghandi is going to hell what chance do the rest of us have[?]
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