MackeyJ
Underboss
1414 Posts
    
 | | 04/21/2006 3:50 PM |
| How many people have jobs that are closely related to the fossil fuel industry? Does anybody know this statistic offhand?
How many people would be out of work and competing for all the other jobs out there if fossil fuels didn't need to be sold anymore?
I was just thinking how bad it would be on the economy if a free eneygy source came along overnight that was suitable for transportation. It seems to me that would be a change that would take time to implement so as not to cause disastrous effect. | |
John
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Diomedes
Commander
3185 Posts
| | 04/21/2006 4:00 PM |
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Even if a new energy source came out overnight, there's a huge amount of machinery existing right now that would continue to run for years to come. This means that the industry itself would take time to phase itself out as people continued to buy fuel for their old cars/machinery since they don't have the money to replace them.
Simultaneously, you'd be creating a boat load of new jobs implementing this new fuel source in all of your new machinery. And then producing these new items.
This goes a long with the idea that any new fuel source will probably also require a certain amount of work (if it's building and maintaining fusion plants, etc, they'll need workers too).
Would the economy shift? Yes. Would it displace people? Yes. But I don't think it would be destroying jobs so much as moving them around. (although I'm sure it might put a few folks in an uncomfortable job transition).
I can try and look up the numbers for you, but it's not a huge number.
-Diomedes
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Diomedes
Commander
3185 Posts
| | 04/21/2006 4:14 PM |
| http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t14.htm
March 2006 (Seasonally Adjusted in thousands)
Total nonfarm......... 134,966
Natural resources and mining.... 659
Or .5% (so 1 in every 200 people) of the population. Rather small. I realize that some people involved in the industry are in other sectors such as transportation and management, however I took the broad category of natural resources in general rather than:
Oil and gas extraction........ 132.0
So we're counting a lot of people who are digging up limestone, stuff for cement, etc in there too. In fact, if I had to guess, I'd guess .5% is still far too high, but I figured I'd err on the high side.
Don't get me wrong, that's a lot of people, but I believe it could work out. | |
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griffrat
Commander
3507 Posts
| | 04/21/2006 4:22 PM |
| | Also, there is the huge task of changing over the infrastructure to getting the new fuel out into the boonies like to folks in the middle of places like Kansas and Missouri. I know a few people that are from that area and they are wierd....[:D] | |
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Count Dooku
Commander
4637 Posts
New York
| | 04/21/2006 4:41 PM |
| OK...Im not a crackpot conspiracy theroy guy...But I am with this.
I think someone invented a means of using free energy already. A car that runs on garbage like in Back to the Future or something like that. Ok maybe not that but something free and easy to use.
This someone who invented it was offered ALOT of money by oil companys. The patent is sold and the plans for the Car that Runs on Water was sealed away in a vault.
I think maybe more than one person has invented such things..And all of them were bought with obnoxious amounts of money to keep quiet and seal away the plans.
Those that wouldnt sell...were probably killed.
Someday fossil feuls will run out. And when that happends the oil companys will give a BS story about how their men were hard at work trying to find a solution and lo-and-behold.....A car that runs on water or garbage was invented.
OK is this to rediculus to be possible? | |
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griffrat
Commander
3507 Posts
| | 04/21/2006 4:56 PM |
| Not an engineer or anything. But water can be broken down into hydrogen and oxygen pretty easy by a simple current. So it is not that far out there, to make an engine that runs on hydrogen is in the works.
I heard a while back that the oil companies own the most energy saving patents. That is something that I can believe with no problem.
Brazil, has a huge amount of cars that run on ethanol (grain alcohol) which a lot of the grain farmers (corn) in this area are excited about and Toyota announced this week that by 08 they will have more cars that run on EtOH....it is not to far off.... | |
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Diomedes
Commander
3185 Posts
| | 04/21/2006 5:02 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by griffrat
Not an engineer or anything. But water can be broken down into hydrogen and oxygen pretty easy by a simple current. So it is not that far out there, to make an engine that runs on hydrogen is in the works.
I heard a while back that the oil companies own the most energy saving patents. That is something that I can believe with no problem.
Brazil, has a huge amount of cars that run on ethanol (grain alcohol) which a lot of the grain farmers (corn) in this area are excited about and Toyota announced this week that by 08 they will have more cars that run on EtOH....it is not to far off....
I'm not an engineer either, so take me with a grain of salt. All I know on this matter is from listening to several of my friends who are engineers.
First, electrolysis isn't a great way to generate hydrogen. It's a very expensive, energy intensive way. If/when cars run on hydrogen, it'll probably be generated by a chemical reaction that's extremely cheap by comparison.
Second, ethanol isn't a great method of fuel and there isn't the land mass to support it on a large scale. We just have a massive corn lobby in the US that pushes it because it makes them a ton of money AND gets them tax breaks.
Sounds a little down, I know. Again, not an engineer, just reporting what I've heard from people who do work on environmental research/development.
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zenthrus
Warlord
5132 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 04/21/2006 5:11 PM |
| GM has a hydrogen-cell minivan that is supposed to be unveiled sometime this year. Unfortunately, the trouble with hydrogen-cell technology is you need fossil fuels during the process of creating the hydrogen cells.
A couple of grad students developed an engine that runs on used deep-fryer oil. They made it from New York to L.A. and back on one tank of gas (couldn't find a convenient fast-food joint for a while) by asking fast-food/diners for their used deep-frying oil (which typically gets dumped out since it can't be reused for cooking...at least it SHOULDN'T be reused...[:(]).
As to distribution of a new technology...gas stations are ubiquitous. All that would be needed would be a one-shot retrofitting of the stations to accomodate the new technology.
This, of course, won't actually ever happen because having a new, clean, cheap source of fuel means that oil barons/sheiks/shareholders won't be able to gouge consumers and they do wield a lot of geo-political influence to ensure things remain status quo.
Just my two bits [:D] | |
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griffrat
Commander
3507 Posts
| | 04/21/2006 5:18 PM |
| Dio, true electrolysis is not the best means. However, I would think that with water being so abundant and wind being renewable it would be pretty cheap to use wind power to crack the genereator to create the H and O. The only thing that would be the cost would be the machinery to run and store the gases. Don't know just thinking...
As to the EtOH. I would think that as it starts it is going to not be as effecient as other means. But neither was gas when it started. But as time goes by then better ideas get incorporated....
Just thoughts... | |
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