Can of the Cave Beer
Commander
2838 Posts
    
 | | 04/25/2006 11:43 PM |
| I wasn't sure whether or not I should post this here or over in roleplaying.
But I just happened across this link today (and don't remember seeing it here). It's about a week old, but if you've enjoyed Palladium's books in the past, you might want to check THIS OUT.
It's a real shame. I spent a great deal of time with TMNT in the early days of high school and some time with Rifts as well. Ultimately, I lost interest, but not until hundreds of hours later. | |
Champion of the Werewolf Lord, Knight of Anything Duergar, and Squire of Things Gnollish
List reset with the start of previews for each new set...got Chainmail®? | |
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Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2353 Posts
Australia
| | 04/26/2006 12:32 AM |
| I'd prefer this stay in Off Topic. I'd have to lock in Roleplaying because of the flamewar it would start.
Cheers! | |
Merric Blackman
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The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 04/26/2006 12:34 AM |
| I don't see how this could start a flamewar (does Palladium often start a flamewar?) but that might just be me.
My friend is really really really into Palladium and RIFTs and is making the drive up that weekend to the open house to spend money and other assorted things and try to help save them. | |
Im out- find me on Hordelings if you want to chat. | |
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Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2353 Posts
Australia
| | 04/26/2006 1:22 AM |
| There are a lot of people (myself included) who detest Palladium and K.S. There's some illuminating threads on rpg.net if you're really brave.
Cheers! | |
Merric Blackman
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Most Edumacated
zenthrus
Warlord
5132 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 04/26/2006 2:31 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by MerricB
There are a lot of people (myself included) who detest Palladium and K.S. There's some illuminating threads on rpg.net if you're really brave.
Cheers!
Yikes! I've seen those threads. Sad to see a gaming publisher in trouble. Less sad that it's Palladium. | |
Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers
Knight of the Large Dire Chicken
Have/Want List
Trade References | |
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griffrat
Commander
3507 Posts
| | 04/26/2006 6:18 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by MerricB
There are a lot of people (myself included) who detest Palladium and K.S. There's some illuminating threads on rpg.net if you're really brave.
Cheers!
Merric, that is one of the most diplomatic statements I have seen or read in a very long time.....[)]
Well, played sir..... | |
Ambassador of FUN!!! | |
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
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PatEllis15
Commander
4463 Posts
| | 04/26/2006 10:12 AM |
| When EnWorld needed help to keep the doors open, and then to get a nwe server, I chipped in. If/When MaxMinis does the same, I will donate generously.
Palladium is a private company that has been around for a long time... I hate to see game publishers go under, but they are asking for a handout, and that seems a bit odd.
I've heard some of the stories, and don't know what's true. I do know that I've never had much interest in their products...
Pat E | |
"Games evolve. Otherwise we'd still be pushing rocks around the dirt. What do you think the cavemen said when some dude showed up with sticks?" - Chairman7w | |
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griffrat
Commander
3507 Posts
| | 04/26/2006 10:30 AM |
| Pat, I agree with the support of the website. However, I too think that it is strange for a company to ask for a handout....produce a better product, or one that has a wider appeal/draw and then better sales come along.
Not saying that Rifts etc. is a bad product just making a broad statement. I have seen a lot of great source material from rifts.... | |
Ambassador of FUN!!! | |
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Sulaco
Underboss
1605 Posts
| | 04/26/2006 10:41 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ChristopherGroves
Rifts was amusing though. That's the only thing they have which they completely own that has any value.
True. Rifts was - just like Shadowrun - a perfect example of an interesting idea very poorly executed.
quote:
Originally posted by griffrat
Pat, I agree with the support of the website. However, I too think that it is strange for a company to ask for a handout....produce a better product, or one that has a wider appeal/draw and then better sales come along.
Not saying that Rifts etc. is a bad product just making a broad statement. I have seen a lot of great source material from rifts....
What is even more shocking than those nitwits asking for a handout is the number of people lining up to give it to them! If you read that thread there are people offering to by 20 or more copies of this stupid "collector's edition" print. Some people are even asking if they can give donations for Bog's sake! These same people, I am willing to wager, made no such offer to the victims of the Asian tsunami or the recent hurricane disasters.
It is a sad an baffling world in which we live, my friends, if some people care more about crap-ass Palladium than they do about real problems and human suffering.
Personally I think Palladium can go >censored< themselves with a >censored< till the handle comes off. | |
Champion of the Gelatinous Cube. Nemesis of Gnomes and Dinosaurs.
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. ~ Terry Pratchett | |
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*censored*
glumag
Warlord
5968 Posts
| | 04/26/2006 2:33 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Sulaco
It is a sad an baffling world in which we live, my friends, if some people care more about crap-ass Palladium than they do about real problems and human suffering.
I know I might get the evil eye from some here but:
You mean like some people take care of pets while there are hungry human beings on the streets?
It is hard to point fingers at people with the choices they make, I usually do not like to bring my moral views of things to chastise people. If they feel like buying a book over helping someone out...their prerogative. Who are we to condemn? baffling...yes, but still
You can't assume these people have or have not donated to your favorite charity and you can't expect everyone to put the welfare of other people over their own interests, otherwise soon you'll have people pointing a finger at those who like to buy a DVD movie, go to the theater, buy some minis, etc over donating for charity.
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Vash
Underboss
1995 Posts
| | 04/26/2006 2:49 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Sulaco
Personally I think Palladium can go >censored< themselves with a >censored< till the handle comes off.
I'm still trying to figure out what the >censored< is that people can go >cencored< themselves with...???
Frying Pan?
Knife?
[:p] | |
Champion of the Alhoon and my called shot for Unhallowed
Blood War Called Shot: Phoenix
Trade withe me! | |
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Fun Guy from Yuggoth
Cthulhufnord
Warlord
11113 Posts
Umass Amherst Baby!
| | 04/26/2006 3:11 PM |
| Frying knife?
and hey, there's the flood control.[:)] | |
Pathetic Earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void - without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here. If you had known anything about the true nature of the universe - anything at all - you would have hidden from it in terror. | |
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 04/26/2006 3:20 PM |
| I'm honestly surprised Palladium managed to exist this long.
I don't know anything about the KS hate or any of that, but my experience with their products has been that they are uniformly disorganized, badly edited, and prone to enormous game balance problems.
I've never really understood how they were able to keep the business going.
quote:
You mean like some people take care of pets while there are hungry human beings on the streets?
Or like people spend their disposable income on minis instead of Good Causes X, Y and Z.
Although honestly, I'm not particularly ashamed to admit that I'm far more inclined to give money to environmental/conservation charities than others. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
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*censored*
glumag
Warlord
5968 Posts
| | 04/26/2006 3:39 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by IanB
I'm honestly surprised Palladium managed to exist this long.
I don't know anything about the KS hate or any of that, but my experience with their products has been that they are uniformly disorganized, badly edited, and prone to enormous game balance problems.
I've never really understood how they were able to keep the business going.
quote:
You mean like some people take care of pets while there are hungry human beings on the streets?
Or like people spend their disposable income on minis instead of Good Causes X, Y and Z.
I did mention the minis in my reply. [)] | |
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Sulaco
Underboss
1605 Posts
| | 04/26/2006 3:57 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by glumag
You mean like some people take care of pets while there are hungry human beings on the streets?
Nope, not like that at all. Caring for another living creature is a world away from making sure there are moe RIFTS books to buy.
quote:
You can't assume these people have or have not donated to your favorite charity and you can't expect everyone to put the welfare of other people over their own interests, otherwise soon you'll have people pointing a finger at those who like to buy a DVD movie, go to the theater, buy some minis, etc over donating for charity.
I can and do assume just that. Indeed I would be willing to wager on it. There is also a big difference between spending money on yourself and giving to charity. That is not the issue for me. Rather it is the fact that people have money they appear willing to donate and yet they elect to donate it to a fracking corporation rather than to alleviate real suffering.
People have the right to do with their dosh what they will and I have the right to think that some of them are bat sh*t crazy. [)] | |
Champion of the Gelatinous Cube. Nemesis of Gnomes and Dinosaurs.
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. ~ Terry Pratchett | |
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 04/26/2006 4:07 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Sulaco
quote:
Originally posted by glumag
You mean like some people take care of pets while there are hungry human beings on the streets?
Nope, not like that at all. Caring for another living creature is a world away from making sure there are moe RIFTS books to buy.
quote:
You can't assume these people have or have not donated to your favorite charity and you can't expect everyone to put the welfare of other people over their own interests, otherwise soon you'll have people pointing a finger at those who like to buy a DVD movie, go to the theater, buy some minis, etc over donating for charity.
I can and do assume just that. Indeed I would be willing to wager on it. There is also a big difference between spending money on yourself and giving to charity. That is not the issue for me. Rather it is the fact that people have money they appear willing to donate and yet they elect to donate it to a fracking corporation rather than to alleviate real suffering.
People have the right to do with their dosh what they will and I have the right to think that some of them are bat sh*t crazy. [)]
If these people are Palladium fans, and they think that by donating money they're going to later have the opportunity to buy more Palladium products, then they are effectively spending the money on something for themselves. I don't see this as a charity situation so much as a (really bad) investment.
I certainly question the value and wisdom of such an investment, but that's effectively what it is, an investment where they're getting back a chance to buy more crappy products rather than a financial return. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
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*censored*
glumag
Warlord
5968 Posts
| | 04/26/2006 4:15 PM |
| IanB, exactly! No one is debating the fact that the idea might seem to some of us rather stupid, but if it makes sense in their heads and wallets...
quote:
Nope, not like that at all. Caring for another living creature is a world away from making sure there are moe RIFTS books to buy.
Cockroaches are living creatures and I am sure some of us have used books to kill them. [:p] | |
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Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2353 Posts
Australia
| | 04/26/2006 4:48 PM |
| There is odd news afoot:
http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=259957
Cheers! | |
Merric Blackman
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Sulaco
Underboss
1605 Posts
| | 04/26/2006 4:56 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by IanB
If these people are Palladium fans, and they think that by donating money they're going to later have the opportunity to buy more Palladium products, then they are effectively spending the money on something for themselves. I don't see this as a charity situation so much as a (really bad) investment.
If it were just people buying the special item I could see that, but some folks are actually asking to be allowed to donate money.
Investment or charity, we are in agreement that it is indeed a "very bad" choice. | |
Champion of the Gelatinous Cube. Nemesis of Gnomes and Dinosaurs.
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. ~ Terry Pratchett | |
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 04/26/2006 5:06 PM |
| I've been reading that thread, Merric (I don't usually read RPG.net but your earlier mention made me curious.)
I hesitate to go so far as saying they deserved what seems to have happened to them, but for a company that small to suffer theft and embezzlement on that (alleged) scale for so long without noticing it means that company must be incredibly badly run. Was there no financial oversight of any kind? Inventory control? Anything?
As a percentage of their total income the losses they're describing may be worse than Worldcom or Enron! How do you not immediately notice thousands of books disappearing, when you only sell thousands of books in a year? | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
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Sulaco
Underboss
1605 Posts
| | 04/26/2006 5:11 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by MerricB
There is odd news afoot:
http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=259957
Oh you must be kidding. KS is actually publicly begging for money to get his fracking Star Wars guys back? What a putz!
quote:
Originally posted by IanB
How do you not immediately notice thousands of books disappearing, when you only sell thousands of books in a year?
To be fair, it is surprisingly easy not to notice things when someone has their head jammed that far up their ass. | |
Champion of the Gelatinous Cube. Nemesis of Gnomes and Dinosaurs.
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. ~ Terry Pratchett | |
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bigbadjon
Sergeant
546 Posts
| | 04/26/2006 5:31 PM |
| Something about the whole situation seems unbalanced. The way it describes the loss seems to be a personal loss rather than a corporate one. To that I say "you lag, you drag."
I also think it is very undignified for a company to ask its paying customers for a handout. If what I buy cannot support the company then they just can't survive.
As far as giving money to them or anyone, the only person who can take care of you is YOU. Nobody just gives me money so why should I just give it to someone else. | |
Evil triumphs when good men fail their morale saves. | |
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Monsoon28
Underboss
2313 Posts
Toronto
| | 04/27/2006 7:54 AM |
| Well I can say I had years of enjoyment playing TMNT, Robotech and Rifts in the early-mid 90's. (even with all the game-balance issues.)
Even if I'm not playing it any more, Rifts was a great concept and a fun environment.
I'll not comment on the whole 'financial woes' or on KS himself, since I doubt anyone has the full story as of yet. | |
"I was sittin' here eatin' my muffin, drinkin' my coffee, replayin' the incident in my head, when I had what alcoholics refer to as a moment of clarity." - Jules Winnfield
Sales/Trades Bad (1): Ironfist Boulderbender
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Champion of Gem Dragons, VINDICATED Squire of Duergar Commander, Knight of the Astral Stalker.
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Monsoon28
Underboss
2313 Posts
Toronto
| | 04/27/2006 8:21 AM |
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Well here is Kevin's response to the settlement. Ofc this is one side of the story, but at least it's more then speculation and conjecture.
http://forums.palladium-megaverse.com/viewtopic.php?t=57557 | |
"I was sittin' here eatin' my muffin, drinkin' my coffee, replayin' the incident in my head, when I had what alcoholics refer to as a moment of clarity." - Jules Winnfield
Sales/Trades Bad (1): Ironfist Boulderbender
Trades/Sales completed (8.): Danthl, Dafrca, Garyaxe, qillan_dvra, realmaster, Vandal_Savage, cavedweller, unearthed arcana.
Champion of Gem Dragons, VINDICATED Squire of Duergar Commander, Knight of the Astral Stalker.
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Sulaco
Underboss
1605 Posts
| | 04/27/2006 9:44 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Monsoon28
Well here is Kevin's response to the settlement. Ofc this is one side of the story, but at least it's more then speculation and conjecture.
http://forums.palladium-megaverse.com/viewtopic.php?t=57557
Interesting. I still think KS is a dick and that people offering to send donations is misguided at best, but it is nice to know if not the full story then at least a bit more info, even if it is mostly spin control. | |
Champion of the Gelatinous Cube. Nemesis of Gnomes and Dinosaurs.
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. ~ Terry Pratchett | |
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devasque
Sergeant
874 Posts
| | 04/27/2006 6:13 PM |
| | Me personally I've no inclination of KS or of the percieved angst folks are vibing him with. I played some Rifts in my time and it was fun. Havn't done much else with their company but that's just cause it didn't appeal to me. If he went public asking for assistance, more power to him. Its the public's choice to support or not. Leave it at that. No need for nastiness or brash bandying of words here. If they as a company are looking at those figures in the red, I, speaking from a business standpoint, cannot see them pulling out of a nose dive and closing doors no matter what support they can drum up from public sympathy. Just simple business basics. | |
You see! There ARE others out there just like me. What? Why are laughing? | |
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3964 Posts
Adelaide
| | 04/28/2006 5:12 AM |
| Will/would be a shame to lose Palladium imo.
Have given me a lot of good gaming fun from thier material. | |
"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: "In the age of the internet attaching a famous name to your personal opinion to give more weight to it is a very valid strategy." - Benjamin Franklin
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
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