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striderlotr
Commander
3370 Posts
    
 | | 05/22/2006 10:31 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ghendar
quote:
Originally posted by ChristopherGroves
Complaining here ups your post count, therefore WakeXX and Ghendar and Glumag complain [)] ... seriously check out their post counts. Anyone with 5k posts you KNOW is a trouble-causing good-for-nothing wise-guys.
I aint at 5000 yet Chris!!!
However, you have correctly deduced the exact purpose of my presence here on Maxminis. [:p]
Aren't we all going for 5000 posts??? So what is after that? Anything special? | |
Sean Banks
Champion of Elementals
Official Organizer
Gen Con 05 maxminis Event | Winterfantasy 06 maxminis Event | Gen Con 06 maxminis Event | Winterfantasy 07 Community Event | |
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Vash
Underboss
1995 Posts
| | 05/22/2006 10:33 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by striderlotr
quote:
Originally posted by Ghendar
quote:
Originally posted by ChristopherGroves
Complaining here ups your post count, therefore WakeXX and Ghendar and Glumag complain [)] ... seriously check out their post counts. Anyone with 5k posts you KNOW is a trouble-causing good-for-nothing wise-guys.
I aint at 5000 yet Chris!!!
However, you have correctly deduced the exact purpose of my presence here on Maxminis. [:p]
Aren't we all going for 5000 posts??? So what is after that? Anything special?
The fight for the top of Page 1? | |
Champion of the Alhoon and my called shot for Unhallowed
Blood War Called Shot: Phoenix
Trade withe me! | |
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kgradert13
Sergeant
909 Posts
| | 05/22/2006 10:34 AM |
| | I believe after 5000 posts you get free eggrolls down at Shangai Wok Gardens | |
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trollbill
Warrior
176 Posts
| | 05/22/2006 11:11 AM |
| Like everything else in life, complaints have their good and bad points.
Good: When used constructively they can address wrongs, correct mistakes and generally improve product. They also allow people to blow off some of their steam when they see something they don't like.
Bad: Too much complaining creates an atmosphere of negativism and defeatism. Not only does this turn off many forum members, it can have a subtle psychological effect on the developers who start to ignore all complaints because it seems nothing they do will make people happy.
If you want reasonable people to listen to you, you have to be reasonable in your complaints. So how do you make a reasonable complaint?
1) Don't assume the worst possible motivation for something you see as a problem. Just because something could have been done to "stick it to the consumer" doesn't mean this is what happened, or is even the most likely scenario. If you assume the worst possible motives for me, I will assume the worst possible motives for you.
2) Don't make demands. If you don't listen when people make demands of you, what makes you think anyone else does?
3) While its okay to express some emotion, excessive anger demonstrates an inability on one's part to be reasonable. No one likes doing things for unreasonable people.
4) Make your case and move on. Complaining about the same thing over and over and over again tunes people out so that the more you complain, the less they listen to that complaint.
5) Just because you find a flaw doesn't mean it should be complained about. If you complain about everything, no one listens to you when you have something genuine to complain about. Not every flaw is worth the effort required to fix it. Choose your battles.
6) If someone points out a flaw in your complaint, don't respond by pulling out a magnifying glass to look for minute, pointless flaws just so you can justify the original complaint. If there is a flaw in your complaint, fix it. Don't find excuses for it. Supporting a flawed complaint with more, far less important complaints just tells everyone that you are unreasonable and a compulsive complainer.
7) The golden rule works just as well with complaints as everything else. Do unto the developers as you would have them do unto you. A perceived flaw in a product does not justify rudeness.
8) If you have a right to complain about a product, others have a right to complain about your complaint. When you dismiss reasoned opposing arguments as favoritism, brown-nosing and sycophancy, you justify the dismissal of your own reasoned arguments.
9) Forums dedicated to a product are there for people who like and want to support that product. If you find yourself posting nothing but complaints on such a forum, then maybe that product isn't for you.
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Monsoon28
Underboss
2313 Posts
Toronto
| | 05/22/2006 11:56 AM |
| The way I see it 'complaining' let's WotC know what pleases and displeases us. The trick is for WotC to see through it all when their are opposing sides and find a way to (mostly) please everyone.
If I or other's didn't complain about the absense of Gem Dragons after 10 sets, we might never see any. Still the question is HOW many people are asking for Gem Dragon? After all I can complain until I'm blue in the face, but if I'm the only person on numerous boards doing so, I'd still never see them.
True some people may be more whiners who will B!tch about anything and everything, but I think you'll find them over at the WotC boards and not here. | |
"I was sittin' here eatin' my muffin, drinkin' my coffee, replayin' the incident in my head, when I had what alcoholics refer to as a moment of clarity." - Jules Winnfield
Sales/Trades Bad (1): Ironfist Boulderbender
Trades/Sales completed (8.): Danthl, Dafrca, Garyaxe, qillan_dvra, realmaster, Vandal_Savage, cavedweller, unearthed arcana.
Champion of Gem Dragons, VINDICATED Squire of Duergar Commander, Knight of the Astral Stalker.
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Benimoto
Underboss
1125 Posts
| | 05/22/2006 12:14 PM |
| | That's a nice, thoughtful set of guidelines there, Trollbill. I have to say I'm impressed. | |
Champion of the Rakshasa. Check out my Mini Terrain Maker, or my new Dungeon Map Maker (under development). | |
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jedijon
Sergeant
474 Posts
| | 05/22/2006 12:21 PM |
| This is a great discussion. My philosophy is a little different; all those previous points in mind--complaining is.
Lots of threads (some even complaints) just drop to the bottom of the page and fall away. I mean, who wants to read about somebodies' appologies?
We want to yell about the new stuff, and vent about how non-me-centric WoTC is. The nerve! Anyway, if a thread doesn't have a genuine basis for creating disagreement, it won't be around long enough to affect the maxminis 'climate'. One of the things I look at before I even read a thread here (we all read them all, right? :) is how many replies versus how many people read it. If the ratio is too high, I skip on by. | |
*WoTC Delegate (Chicago)* :=: My Trade Thread :=:
DISPUTED TRADE WITH TREE DRUID!!!!!!!! | |
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Urban Druid
Warrior
253 Posts
| | 05/22/2006 12:42 PM |
| Two points I want to make on this subject:
1) Politeness has been stressed enough, so I won't digress on it further. It's Rule #1
2) It's hypocritical to complain about people complaining about the complainers. If you have a right to your opinion (be they complaints or otherwise), then others have just as much right to complain about your complaining. This circle can, of course, be continued ad naseum until someone somewhere just passes on saying whatever he might otherwise have said.
This is a similar issue that arises from polical debates over "value vs tolerance;" how can you be tolerant of everything but intolerance? Sounds silly, huh? People will complain, and others will likely complain about those complaints. That's the nature of the beast.
Somewhere along the line, someone just has to let it go. | |
*This post was recorded before a live studio audience* | |
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PatEllis15
Commander
4463 Posts
| | 05/22/2006 1:38 PM |
| I have to agree with the general sentiments being expresed.
Having a legitimate, thought out complaint for WotC is encouraged, and I haven't seen any such thread, message berrated by the board members, let alone the mod's.
Keep it civil, and don't be redundnat, and it'll all be good!
Pat E | |
"Games evolve. Otherwise we'd still be pushing rocks around the dirt. What do you think the cavemen said when some dude showed up with sticks?" - Chairman7w | |
| Darastrix Maekrix
dariustad
Warlord
6322 Posts
| | 05/22/2006 1:49 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Monsoon28
The way I see it 'complaining' let's WotC know what pleases and displeases us. The trick is for WotC to see through it all when their are opposing sides and find a way to (mostly) please everyone.
If I or other's didn't complain about the absense of Gem Dragons after 10 sets, we might never see any. Still the question is HOW many people are asking for Gem Dragon? After all I can complain until I'm blue in the face, but if I'm the only person numerous boards doing so, I'd still never see them.
True some people may be more whiners who will B!tch about anything and everything, but I think you'll find them over at the WotC boards and not here.
Wouldn't you want to complain until you're amethyst in the face? It would serve the cause *that* much better! [)] | |
Trade & talk in real time on IRC! SERVER: irc.psionics.net CHANNEL: #maxminis SOFTWARE: PC | PC (free) | MAC
Champion of ALL Dragons and the Dragon Shaman
][ My Trade Shoppe ][ Vindicated Champion of Aspects of Draconic Deities
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Zenako
Commander
3472 Posts
| | 05/22/2006 1:57 PM |
| Nope, its not bad if done in moderation and constructively and kept civil.
Complaints are also a forum for uncovering flaws or oversights that might be missed otherwise. | |
Built the addition for this addiction, now on to the "gaming table" project....
http://www.maxminis.com/hw_list.asp?user=Zenako last updated 29 May 2006
Set Status: in a nutshell = all of all
In Process trades 0), (Sig last updated 05/29/06) 300 plus Completed Trades -
If I seem scarce at times...blame DDO - Sarlona | |
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Wish
Sergeant
399 Posts
| | 05/22/2006 4:24 PM |
| There are a few things that really bother me in the complaint threads.
1) Repeated complaints when you know that what you're trying to accomplish is incompatible with another large segment of the community. For example, mounted minis. We know that some of you absolutely despise mounted minis. Really, we've got it, and we don't need to hear it from 15 different posters every time a mounted mini is previewed.Especially since you know perfectly well that a lot of other members like mounted minis. Like them a lot, in fact. It's grossly unfair for one significant subset of the minis community to try to destroy an aspect of the line that another significant subset of the community enjoys. (For the record, I have no dog in that particular fight at all. I can take them or leave them.)
2) Unrealistic expectations. A lot of the complaints seem to have an implicit expectation that each community member will be able to use 100% of the product line. That's just not the way it works. It can't work that way. The D&D minis product line is quite intelligently designed to be useful to a variety of gamers for a variety of purposes. I've never gone into a store and bought a D&D book expecting that I'd use every feat, every spell, every prestige class and every background paragraph in the book. Even the PHB (self-sufficient feat, anybody?) or Monster Manual (stupid phantom fungus) has stuff I'll never, ever use. I pick and choose what's useful to me. If a given book has a high enough percentage of it that is useful, I buy it. Yet I get the strong impression that a subset of this community wants the D&D minis line to have an unrealistically high proportion of useful material. I just can't understand that.
Basically, what I'm getting at is this. When you make your suggestions or complaints to WotC, try not to do it in a way that elevates your particular community subset over the others, and certainly try not to stab other community subsets in the back. | | | |
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Anthraxus
Warrior
212 Posts
| | 05/22/2006 5:44 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Wish
There are a few things that really bother me in the complaint threads.
1) Repeated complaints when you know that what you're trying to accomplish is incompatible with another large segment of the community. For example, mounted minis. We know that some of you absolutely despise mounted minis. Really, we've got it, and we don't need to hear it from 15 different posters every time a mounted mini is previewed.Especially since you know perfectly well that a lot of other members like mounted minis. Like them a lot, in fact. It's grossly unfair for one significant subset of the minis community to try to destroy an aspect of the line that another significant subset of the community enjoys. (For the record, I have no dog in that particular fight at all. I can take them or leave them.)
Depends on what you mean by complaint threads. If I see a preview thread for the- say... the Bluespawn, I might chime in and say I don't like a monster like that taking up a huge spot. If I see a thread about WD paint jobs, I might add that I was displeased with the paint jobs as well. If I see a preview thread about a huge, clear plastic Fire Elemental, I add my .02 that it looks awesome!
If enough people post (civilly) with their views, I'm hoping that it might be used as feedback for future decisions. As long as people follow rule #1, I don't see a problem. | |
Yeah, I really need to work on my H/W list one of these days...
Completed trades: 17 ; Pending: 2
Champion of Yugoloths | |
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oyvind
Warrior
238 Posts
| | 05/22/2006 6:23 PM |
| I personally don't like complaining. I don't think it causes change for the good as much as it causes bad blood. I think it comes down to being polite (complaining is not being polite in my book) and constructive.
My job lets me meet a lot of people all the time, and the complainers are always the most difficult customers and they can really ruin a promising day. If something is wrong, of course you should tell your supplier, but coming in complaining won't help you, them or anyone else. Simply telling them that something is wrong, what is wrong and that you expect it to be fixed will definitely help you, help them and probably even help others as you show you are a mature and polite human being and that it really is something wrong (the complainers will always complain, and hearing complaints from them won't necessarily mean there IS something wrong). Strangers witnessing these complainers (some of which come in just about every week, so we must be doing something right, even though they won't admit it) at the shop I work almost always come to our defense just because of the tone the complainers are setting. Mainly because they don't know how to behave.
I think this can be somewhat translated to message boards on the web as well. It's very different because you're not actually talking to people. Not having to look someone in the eyes makes for more free speech than being face-to-face with people. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, it's just an observation. Actually, I occasionally find it both very fascinating and really irritating at the same time. Freedom of speech is very important to me, but I think you'll make more friends/gain more goodwill and help if you don't sound off like the whole world is turning on you so that all you have left is hate. Showing different opinions and reporting problems is great, in my humble opinion! Just be polite and concise, treat others with respect, and you'd be better off in the long run (and the short run as well). Well, at least that's my take on it. Feel free to disagree! [:)] | |
Champion of the Tarrasque
Knight of Kraken | |
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Cheddar Bearer
Warrior
298 Posts
| | 05/22/2006 9:40 PM |
| I'm all for the right to complain t keeps things interesting. The line between whining and complaining is a thin one. One thing that particularly crosses this line is when people (please note this s not an attack on anyone) say things like X mini stole a huge slot, as if that spot was definatly the huge mini they wanted and now they wont get it because of mini X. I have no objection to people saying it is a wasted slot or they don't like the mini its just something about the phrasing of "mini X stole a huge slot" that somehow sounds whiny to me. This is just my opinion.
Also I'm all for complaining but it does slightly irritate me when people make statements that speak for everyone, things like "a mini no one could possible want". No offece intended but there is no way anyone could no that and the person tends to be portraying a highly personal opinion as stated fact. I know its all just semantics but its just how these things make me feel. However to reiterate what I initially said:
Complaining is Good. | |
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Narethkraag
Sergeant
848 Posts
| | 05/22/2006 11:18 PM |
| | I also think that complaining is useful when done in a well thought argument instead of the traditional "wotc sucks and I hate them" fashion, it is also useful to let others know what you think are strong and weak points in the D&D mini line, but you also have to be fair to others and accept that WOTC has to tend to many different tastes of gamers...... | |
my list:http://www.maxminis.com/hwlist.asp?user=narethkraag
completed trades: Capnfrank, Sturmkraehe, Jeff Wilder (x5), Mrfurious, Shinobi, Hockeyfan, Kyrin x2, Scepter, Archimagus, Enginer230, The Last Huzzah, War golem, RedSkullz
Definetely bad trader: Invictus | |
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kyrin
Commander
3171 Posts
| | 05/23/2006 1:36 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Wish
2) Unrealistic expectations. A lot of the complaints seem to have an implicit expectation that each community member will be able to use 100% of the product line.
That is certainly not one of my expectations. I do, however, expect that someone is going to want the minis, that if I can't use it, I will be able to trade it for something I will use. I find it completely unacceptable if there is a mini that no-one wants in a set. It must be the Scotsman in me, but I will simply not shrug my shoulders and throw away a mini. It is why I'm on maxminis, after all. I think that is a perfectly reasonable expectation for me as a consumer.
Thus far, things have been okay. Those Spirit Folk Fighters are getting long in the tooth in my trade box, but I hold out hope.
Kyrin's Law: If I can use it in a game, it is a "good" mini. If I can trade it to someone for something I can use in a game, it is a "good" mini.
Thus, the jury is out on whether or not the Bluespawn Godpwner will be a "good" mini. Time (and trading) will tell.
JIM
aka kyrin | |
My Have/Want List <-|-|->My Trades and References 1 <-|-|->My Trades and References 2
Pronounce "Drow" like "crow"! Viva la Revolution! We Shall Overcome!
Vindicated Champion of the Stirge! Vindicated Champion of the Githyanki Knight on Red Dragon!!
Vindicated Champion of the Androsphinx! | |
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Arandae
Sergeant
713 Posts
UK
| | 05/23/2006 7:24 AM |
| Thanks to all who have replied, and for the honest and forthright expressions of views - also thanks for not shooting me down for starting the thread [:D]. I agree with very many of the views expressed, concerning being constructive and polite, etc.
I still have a problem with the notion of there being 'whiners' here. I really don't see it - all the people who have complained vociferously about a topic seem to me to also offer very positive posts about the things they do like. But I can't claim to read everything on maxminis [)].
I think the issue that really concerned me was the way that some people were being treated (in my perception). Complaining about complaining is fine by me - but some complaints seemed to rubbish the people rather than their views. Putting people in a box (as hard core 'whiners') seems an easy way of saying that their views can be discounted without addressing the points they raise.
But I'm sure that the basic rules of politeness, followed by the overwhelming majority of people of maxminis, will continue to help make maxminis a great place to come.
Thanks again for the replies. (I will also continue complaining, naturally [)].) | |
Champion of the Bodak.Knight of the Aboleth.Squire of Gnomes. Friend of (Non-Ugly) Fey.
Anti-Champion of the Fozzie Bugbear Strangler (Demonweb 32/60).
Called Shots- Blood War: Green Slaad (53/60), Night Below: Kuo-Toa Whip (55/60),
Demonweb: Aboleth, Feywild: Fire Beetle,
Next Icon: Gargantuan Jotunheim Frost Giant | |
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Vash
Underboss
1995 Posts
| | 05/23/2006 7:35 AM |
| I don't know if it's been said because I don't feel like re-reading everything...
Don't think of us as whiners or complainers. Think of us as old fogies doing our jobs [:D]
"Back in my day we didn't have miniatures, we used rocks and we were happy. And we had to walk 15 miles in the snow to buy those rocks, with no shoes, and uphill both ways!"
We're newschool fogies [:P] | |
Champion of the Alhoon and my called shot for Unhallowed
Blood War Called Shot: Phoenix
Trade withe me! | |
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Monsoon28
Underboss
2313 Posts
Toronto
| | 05/23/2006 8:27 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by dariustad
Wouldn't you want to complain until you're amethyst in the face? It would serve the cause *that* much better! [)]
Well I am Emerald with envy at all the other Dragons in the set! [:P]
And to think a set with representation for Tiamat and Bahamut, but are we going to see any Sardior love? I think not! For Shame! [V][:P]
OT:
The way I see it, I am equally responsive on both positive and negative feedback. I was there stating How much I loved the Iron Golem (plus dozens of other minis) and I was there complaining how much I was disappointed with the paint job of the Chimera (and numerous other WD minis.)
If all I ever did was 'blow kisses' at the R&D team, they wouldn't know what they did right or wrong.
What I don't complain about is things like mounted or unmounted, setting specific or general. The one exception to this is now the 'yet' another remake of D&D 'Iconics' such as Tordek and the rumoured Lidda. While personally I can live without a Bruenor or Raistlin mini, such mini's are wanted. Where as I can't remember any thread begging for yet another remake of Lidda and company. | |
"I was sittin' here eatin' my muffin, drinkin' my coffee, replayin' the incident in my head, when I had what alcoholics refer to as a moment of clarity." - Jules Winnfield
Sales/Trades Bad (1): Ironfist Boulderbender
Trades/Sales completed (8.): Danthl, Dafrca, Garyaxe, qillan_dvra, realmaster, Vandal_Savage, cavedweller, unearthed arcana.
Champion of Gem Dragons, VINDICATED Squire of Duergar Commander, Knight of the Astral Stalker.
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Arandae
Sergeant
713 Posts
UK
| | 05/23/2006 8:41 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Monsoon28
What I don't complain about is things like mounted or unmounted, setting specific or general. The one exception to this is now the 'yet' another remake of D&D 'Iconics' such as Tordek and the rumoured Lidda. While personally I can live without a Bruenor or Raistlin mini, such mini's are wanted. Where as I can't remember any thread begging for yet another remake of Lidda and company.
I guess it all depends on what topics bother you the most. Suppose we had a rule here that says "You can't complain about things that are general, like mounted minis, campaign-specific minis and iconics." That would work most of the time for you, but even by your own admission there is this one exception where you do want to complain.
A lot of us might be like that. I don't usually complain about campaign-specific minis. I don't want Eberron-specific minis, but I know the Eberron players need minis to keep them happy - so I wouldn't normally complain about a single mini. But the inclusion of 4 warforged in one set was an exception that got me riled enough to want to complain. Similarly, someone might not complain about every mounted mini, but might have thought the Huge Black Dragon (with huge true dragons not coming up very often) was worth complaining about.
With so many people posting on maxminis, each of us 'usually' not complaining about 'general' stuff, but occasionally letting off steam about our own personal 'exceptions', will still end up looking like loads of moaning about every little thing [:D].
Btw, although I can't recall a specific thread about wanting the PHB iconics, I can recall many individual comments from people wanting them. But then I want them too - so it's the sort of comment I'm very likely to pick up on [:)]. | |
Champion of the Bodak.Knight of the Aboleth.Squire of Gnomes. Friend of (Non-Ugly) Fey.
Anti-Champion of the Fozzie Bugbear Strangler (Demonweb 32/60).
Called Shots- Blood War: Green Slaad (53/60), Night Below: Kuo-Toa Whip (55/60),
Demonweb: Aboleth, Feywild: Fire Beetle,
Next Icon: Gargantuan Jotunheim Frost Giant | |
| *censored*
glumag
Warlord
5968 Posts
| | 05/23/2006 8:45 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ChristopherGroves
Complaining here ups your post count, therefore WakeXX and Ghendar and Glumag complain [)] ... seriously check out their post counts. Anyone with 5k posts you KNOW is a trouble-causing good-for-nothing wise-guys.
I'd like to place a complain that this thread is still going on!
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Trades >> Completed: 49 | Bad: Ø | Pending: 0 | Trade & talk Live on IRC! SERVER: irc.psionics.net CHANNEL: #maxminis | |
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Vash
Underboss
1995 Posts
| | 05/23/2006 8:57 AM |
| Awww poorbaby
*Hands glumag his ba ba* | |
Champion of the Alhoon and my called shot for Unhallowed
Blood War Called Shot: Phoenix
Trade withe me! | |
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Monsoon28
Underboss
2313 Posts
Toronto
| | 05/23/2006 3:18 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by glumag
I'd like to place a complain that this thread is still going on!
Awwwwwwwww, baby want his bottle? [:P] | |
"I was sittin' here eatin' my muffin, drinkin' my coffee, replayin' the incident in my head, when I had what alcoholics refer to as a moment of clarity." - Jules Winnfield
Sales/Trades Bad (1): Ironfist Boulderbender
Trades/Sales completed (8.): Danthl, Dafrca, Garyaxe, qillan_dvra, realmaster, Vandal_Savage, cavedweller, unearthed arcana.
Champion of Gem Dragons, VINDICATED Squire of Duergar Commander, Knight of the Astral Stalker.
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striderlotr
Commander
3370 Posts
| | 05/23/2006 3:36 PM |
| And the hits keep on cmoing...
Glumag... it's ok... don't cry... | |
Sean Banks
Champion of Elementals
Official Organizer
Gen Con 05 maxminis Event | Winterfantasy 06 maxminis Event | Gen Con 06 maxminis Event | Winterfantasy 07 Community Event | |
| Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
12483 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 05/23/2006 3:39 PM |
| | Cute kid. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
| *censored*
glumag
Warlord
5968 Posts
| | 05/23/2006 3:42 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by striderlotr
And the hits keep on cmoing...
Glumag... it's ok... don't cry...
you've met me, you know I am a much bigger whiner than that [:p] | |
Trades >> Completed: 49 | Bad: Ø | Pending: 0 | Trade & talk Live on IRC! SERVER: irc.psionics.net CHANNEL: #maxminis | |
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Sulaco
Underboss
1605 Posts
| | 05/23/2006 3:57 PM |
| Complaints are fine. If we all agreed with each other about everything what would be the basis for discussion? I have noticed an upsurge in three specific types of complaints since Wardrums, however, that contribute little and foster much ill-will.
Type 1: Conjecture
Also known as "Talking out your ass." These are the complaints that have no basis in fact, logic, or often common sense. Sometimes they will reference a "reliable source" and will often include statements informing us what "no one" wants and how "everyone" feels. These are personal opinions which the poster tries to pass off as fact.
Type 2: Hyperbole
Typified by the words "useless" and "wasted slot." Often accompanied by proclamations of Wizards' doom cos the poster will now cease buying his traditional 983 cases per expansion. A common theme in these posts is a sense of entitlement, that Wizards somehow owes us something.
Type 3: Whining
There is not specific style associated with this type apart from posting the same complaints - some valid, some not - repeatedly, incessantly, and at every opportunity even in threads that have precisely bog-all to do with the topic. The most common recent example is how "useless" the huges are, which unseated the reigning champ: Wardrums paint jobs.
Of course that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. | |
Champion of the Gelatinous Cube. Nemesis of Gnomes and Dinosaurs.
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. ~ Terry Pratchett | |
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Anti-Sean
Warrior
283 Posts
| | 05/23/2006 6:47 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Sulaco
I couldn't have put it better myself. Are you reading my mind? That's just eerie... *backs away slowly* | |
Cassael's Lament - An Eberron Story
Vindicated Champion of Quori
Champion of the Bone Knight | |
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Most Edumacated
zenthrus
Warlord
5132 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 05/23/2006 7:09 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Anti-Sean
quote:
Originally posted by Sulaco
I couldn't have put it better myself. Are you reading my mind? That's just eerie... *backs away slowly*
He's psychic like that [:D]
Now will follow a list of complaints about complaining about complaining about complaining about complaints [:O] | |
Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers
Knight of the Large Dire Chicken
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Can of the Cave Beer
Commander
2838 Posts
| | 05/23/2006 8:35 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Sulaco
Of course that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
Mmmmmm....could be. But I'm thinking not.
Of course, when everyone agrees it's a scary thing. Because most of you should be too sane to agree with the things in my head. [:o)] | |
Champion of the Werewolf Lord, Knight of Anything Duergar, and Squire of Things Gnollish
List reset with the start of previews for each new set...got Chainmail®? | |
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fenrishero
Sneak
63 Posts
| | 05/23/2006 9:19 PM |
| The best example of people not understanding the problem is this ill will towards people wanting to know the story with the paint jobs.
Some people do like to look at the miniatures, and now the issue that was just a whine about it issue with War Drums has become a pattern. This on the heels of some other issues that have come up has concerned some people, so some people would like to know what the source of our discontent is. The reason it keeps coming up is no one gives an answer thats actually on topic. The problem is that sometimes, you have to be repetitive to get an answer, especially in this day of automatic responses to e-mail and form letters.
So, the difference between whining and being determined is that whining is about problems that are minor and petty to the whiner, while being determined is about problems that will affect your continued involvement with the game.
And complaining about legitimate complaints? I've worked in marketing, and we had a name for people like that. 'Lay downs'. All you have to do is slap your brand on a product, and they are money in the bank. | |
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| Darastrix Maekrix
dariustad
Warlord
6322 Posts
| | 05/23/2006 9:48 PM |
| 42!
[:o)] | |
Trade & talk in real time on IRC! SERVER: irc.psionics.net CHANNEL: #maxminis SOFTWARE: PC | PC (free) | MAC
Champion of ALL Dragons and the Dragon Shaman
][ My Trade Shoppe ][ Vindicated Champion of Aspects of Draconic Deities
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Can of the Cave Beer
Commander
2838 Posts
| | 05/23/2006 10:08 PM |
| Yeah. Everyone knows that.
Now, what's the question?
[:p] | |
Champion of the Werewolf Lord, Knight of Anything Duergar, and Squire of Things Gnollish
List reset with the start of previews for each new set...got Chainmail®? | |
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Most Edumacated
zenthrus
Warlord
5132 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 05/23/2006 11:31 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Can of the Cave Beer
Now, what's the question?
[:p]
Why not? | |
Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers
Knight of the Large Dire Chicken
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| Darastrix Maekrix
dariustad
Warlord
6322 Posts
| | 05/23/2006 11:50 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by zenthrus
quote:
Originally posted by Can of the Cave Beer
Now, what's the question?
[:p]
Why not?
"Do! Or, do not! There is no try!"
This thread was beginning to get a bit too morbid. Shouldn't we be frothing at the bit, wondering what this week's preview will be? With all the complaining, our speculation skills have just dried up.
Come on, you have more skill points than that! [)] | |
Trade & talk in real time on IRC! SERVER: irc.psionics.net CHANNEL: #maxminis SOFTWARE: PC | PC (free) | MAC
Champion of ALL Dragons and the Dragon Shaman
][ My Trade Shoppe ][ Vindicated Champion of Aspects of Draconic Deities
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Most Edumacated
zenthrus
Warlord
5132 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 05/24/2006 12:09 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by dariustad
Shouldn't we be frothing at the bit, wondering what this week's preview will be? With all the complaining, our speculation skills have just dried up.
I speculate that this week's preview will contain:
1) Large Green Dragon
2) Dragonspawn
3) Any combination of 1 and 2
I also speculate that there will be a lot of complaining [:D] | |
Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers
Knight of the Large Dire Chicken
Have/Want List
Trade References | |
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Can of the Cave Beer
Commander
2838 Posts
| | 05/24/2006 12:40 AM |
| Complaining? On this site?
Never.
In fact, I grow weary of everyone saying that all I do is complain. Have I mentioned my lack of cash? The funny sounds my car is making? The lack of a Gnoll or Duergar (to obvious knowledge)? What about the lowly Dire Tiger or Werewolf Lord? Nope. Not I.
I don't complain about such things.
[)] | |
Champion of the Werewolf Lord, Knight of Anything Duergar, and Squire of Things Gnollish
List reset with the start of previews for each new set...got Chainmail®? | |
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Arandae
Sergeant
713 Posts
UK
| | 05/24/2006 5:05 AM |
| Hmm. Interesting points, Sulaco.
quote:
Originally posted by Sulaco
Type 1: Conjecture
No disagreement here. We do get a lot of that. Polls are useful to refute conjecture of the type "no one wants", because they often highlight how little we agree on anything [)].
quote:
Originally posted by Sulaco
Type 2: Hyperbole
Typified by the words "useless" and "wasted slot."
Sometimes the "I'll never buy any again" comments can be tiresome, but I'd be sorry to see this sort of complaint 'run out of town'. I enjoy reading about what other people consider 'useless' and the discussions that follow. It's a good starting point for people to suggest uses that some of us might not have thought of. Hyperbole is a good source of comedy as well [:D].
quote:
Originally posted by Sulaco
Type 3: Whining
There is not specific style associated with this type apart from posting the same complaints... *snip***
I'd suggest that the reason there is no specific style associated with this, is that this category is ill thought out and entirely subjective [)]. 'Whining' seems to be someone else complaining about a topic that the accuser doesn't find as important as the 'whiner'. I agree with those posters who suggest that sometimes you have to keep raising an issue to bring about change. Although I do agree that when a thread is hijacked to complain about something else, that is irritating. (I'm sure I've done that many times, so I'll take the hit there [:I].) When it occurs in a well-named thread of its own, it's easy to just avoid the thread.
I think there's another category to add:
Type 4: Labelling
"Some people here just complain about anything - that makes them irrational and whiners. Therefore if anyone makes a complaint on a recognised 'whine' topic they can be labelled as a 'whiner' and their arguments can be ignored."
Conjecture can be irritating, but it can also be fun to challenge. I enjoy other people's hyperbole - it's a good source of entertainment. Whining - it's in the eye of the beholder, and I don't think maxminis has anyone who just whines and adds nothing constructive. Labelling - it's low, attacks the poster rather than the argument, and makes my blood boil [:(!].
I'm happier to see more complaining, not less [)]. But then I'm a big poopy head, so what do I know [:D]? | |
Champion of the Bodak.Knight of the Aboleth.Squire of Gnomes. Friend of (Non-Ugly) Fey.
Anti-Champion of the Fozzie Bugbear Strangler (Demonweb 32/60).
Called Shots- Blood War: Green Slaad (53/60), Night Below: Kuo-Toa Whip (55/60),
Demonweb: Aboleth, Feywild: Fire Beetle,
Next Icon: Gargantuan Jotunheim Frost Giant | |
| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
13069 Posts
Mud Lick, Kentucky
| | 05/24/2006 8:20 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Arandae
But then I'm a big poopy head, so what do I know [:D]?
Damn straight! [)]
Seriously, constructive complaints are the way to go. Anything else makes you look like a whiner, imo. | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM
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