MeowPao
Skirmisher
47 Posts
    
 | | 08/04/2006 9:34 AM |
| | I was having a funny discussion with some friends a few weeks ago regarding who will win in a Star Trek vs. Star Wars scenario... then the Borg came up.... I was thinking, would it be possible for the Borg to assimilate those weird alien species in SW, such as the Hutts and most especially, beings like Yoda? If they are able to, now what would they look like? I can just imagine, a midget Borg or a slug Borg lol lol! Borg with force powers? hehe! | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
11498 Posts
In ur house, stealin' yur minis
| | 08/04/2006 12:05 PM |
| It would be pretty funny to see a Borg cube get blown to hell by a Death Star, only to watch the next cube come up and then absorb every shot thrown at it by the Death Star.
Empire, gone. | |
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Lachlarlan_the_Mad
Sergeant
470 Posts
| | 08/04/2006 12:18 PM |
| | Borg Jawas FTW! | |
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MeowPao
Skirmisher
47 Posts
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Ridureyu
Underboss
1622 Posts
| | 08/04/2006 2:28 PM |
| | I don't know if the borg vube would absorb death star blasts. Star wars uses lasers, while Star Trek uses weird particle beamy things. | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
11498 Posts
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| | 08/04/2006 2:35 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ridureyu
I don't know if the borg vube would absorb death star blasts. Star wars uses lasers, while Star Trek uses weird particle beamy things.
The Star Trek universe has lasers as well.
Winner - Borg | |
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glumag
Warlord
5968 Posts
| | 08/04/2006 2:47 PM |
| yeah, I loved the original trilogy like any young kid pre-double digits would. I got into Star Trek later on and even tho I always root for Star Wars, they have no chance against a couple of Cubes unless Star Destroyers start going for ramming speed.
Resistance is Futile! | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10365 Posts
United States
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Diomedes
Commander
3173 Posts
| | 08/04/2006 3:18 PM |
| Luke... I was ... I am the assimilated version of your father...
Since you are a part of the collective, however, you already knew that.
>>>
I truthfully can't see the borg /not/ winning that scenario, they're like the empire on steroids...
Faceless minions:
* The borg have more
* The borg are harder to kill
* The borg are more obedient
Problems at home:
* The empire controls its citizens through fear and economics, but they might still revolt
* Once the borg capture a planet, it never revolts
Communications:
* The empire can't send signals in an asteroid field
* The borg have no such problems
etc etc etc | |
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RobWreck
Warrior
295 Posts
| | 08/04/2006 3:32 PM |
| One big problem for the Borg...
Hive Mind.
All you need is one super powerful Jedi (or Sith) to mind control an entire Borg cube. They assimilate technology, but something as ephemeral as the Force? I don't think so.
Of course, should they ever assimilate a Jedi, it's game over...
Rob | |
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Diomedes
Commander
3173 Posts
| | 08/04/2006 3:38 PM |
| quote:
One big problem for the Borg...
Hive Mind.
All you need is one super powerful Jedi (or Sith) to mind control an entire Borg cube. They assimilate technology, but something as ephemeral as the Force? I don't think so.
Of course, should they ever assimilate a Jedi, it's game over...
Rob
See, if Luke's Jedi Mind Trick can't even work on Jabba, I can't believe that it would work... even for a second... against a mind as massive and complex as the Hive Mind.
And they don't need the force. Your lucky shots won't do anything when the borg simply adapt their shields to absorb your weapons after the opening volley.
EDIT: Also, since it turns out that the force is just micro-biology, I'm sure that the borg will quickly clone those cells, IMHO. | |
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Ridureyu
Underboss
1622 Posts
| | 08/04/2006 4:54 PM |
| | Nay, the Yuuhzan Vong would win, hands down. | |
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Lachlarlan_the_Mad
Sergeant
470 Posts
| | 08/04/2006 5:27 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ridureyu
Nay, the Yuuhzan Vong would win, hands down.
Yes, I'm sure not even the Borg shields can stop a moon sized asteroid from impacting a Cube. | |
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wicked cool
Underboss
2091 Posts
| | 08/04/2006 5:32 PM |
| if janeway could destory the borg than so could yoda or any other top characters. i thin borg cobes would also have a tougher time vs the large imperial fleets and wouldnt do well in hand to hand planet combat vs walkers and other ships. didnt they have a difficult assimulating the being data so thye would also have a tough time with other robots and androids.
size wize would vader destroyer be bigger than the eneterprise so no problem for a deathstar against a cube. | |
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Cthulhufnord
Warlord
10873 Posts
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| | 08/04/2006 6:39 PM |
| Oh dear.... this brings me back all the way to freshmen year in highschool..
I did a little doodle of a Borg ship threatening the Death Star... | |
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Ridureyu
Underboss
1622 Posts
| | 08/04/2006 7:11 PM |
| | Goku would blow them all to smithereens. | |
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bigbadjon
Sergeant
546 Posts
| | 08/05/2006 11:42 AM |
| | The Sand People would survive, a Borg can't adapt to a slug thrower. | |
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Yukon Cornelius
Warrior
337 Posts
| | 08/05/2006 8:44 PM |
| Aren't the Vong kind of the Star Wars universe version of the Borg? Not the hive-mind/assimilation aspect of course, but the idea of an unstoppable species that just shows up out of nowhere and starts blowing things all to hell?
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kyrin
Commander
3157 Posts
| | 08/05/2006 10:06 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by glumag
yeah, I loved the original trilogy like any young kid pre-double digits would. I got into Star Trek later on and even tho I always root for Star Wars, they have no chance against a couple of Cubes unless Star Destroyers start going for ramming speed.
Exactly why the Empire would win. They are much more ruthless than the wimpy Federation. First off, the Death Star can reduce a planet to smithereens. That's a LOT of energy to absorb. Also, a single Tie-fighter (or Droid ship, or flung asteroid, or whatever) travelling at 90% light speed would release so much kinetic energy on impact that no Borg cube could adapt to it. It's like bugs: they can genetically adapt to bug spray, but nothing can make you immune to a well-aimed shoe heel. When you can sling things around at relativistic speeds, many nasty things are possible if one only has the will, and lack of scruples.
The Empire's motto: Kill all you want. We'll clone more!
Now the Borg would probably start doing the same thing, and then head back to their own universe, and run captured starships into Earth, Vulcan, et al at Warp 9...
JIM
aka kyrin | |
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MeowPao
Skirmisher
47 Posts
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MechaKingGhidra
Sergeant
632 Posts
| | 08/06/2006 3:03 AM |
| | I would think that just like the Star Trek universe, with all of those alien species that are probably have yet to be discovered, at least one of them would be comparable to that of Species 8472 so that an effective resistance of some sort could be formed, even if it was primitive as in Voyager it was very difficult to do anything with it. Something crude and simple at the very least. Unless of course, I forgot something that made Species 8472 no longer an option such as even it succumbing to the Borg or something similar. It's been a while since I last watched so much as even a simple re-run of Voyager that I actually cannot even remember 5 specific episode plots. Not that I exactly want those memories back, mind you. The Next Generation is the only Star Trek I enjoy. But anyway, like I implied, the Star Wars universe would likely have at least one alien equivalent to that of Species 8472 so it could be used as a weapon against the Borg. | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
11498 Posts
In ur house, stealin' yur minis
| | 08/06/2006 10:44 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Lachlarlan_the_Mad
quote:
Originally posted by Ridureyu
Nay, the Yuuhzan Vong would win, hands down.
Yes, I'm sure not even the Borg shields can stop a moon sized asteroid from impacting a Cube.
What non-canon nonsense is this? What obscure novel did this come from? [)] | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
11498 Posts
In ur house, stealin' yur minis
| | 08/06/2006 10:46 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by MeowPao
And don't forget it was because of 'Q' that the Federation encountered the Borg a few years too early...
hmm... Q.... wonder what he's gonna do in the Star Wars Universe hahaha!
Q would LAUGH at the Force. | |
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Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
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MeowPao
Skirmisher
47 Posts
| | 08/06/2006 12:39 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Lachlarlan_the_Mad
quote:
Originally posted by Ridureyu
Nay, the Yuuhzan Vong would win, hands down.
Yes, I'm sure not even the Borg shields can stop a moon sized asteroid from impacting a Cube.
I think the Borg has enough intelligence to just avoid the moon sized rock? lol! | |
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Diomedes
Commander
3173 Posts
| | 08/06/2006 1:16 PM |
| quote:
I think the Borg has enough intelligence to just avoid the moon sized rock? lol!
I'd agree. Or just use their energy weapon to destroy it.
They had absolutely perfect reflexes, and I'm pretty sure that they move faster at impulse than any of the empire ships. Considering that-- not in hyperspace-- the empire capital ships can only move at ... 30 km/m?
I'd think the borg would fly circles around the ships. For goodness sakes, don't they /actually man/ their laser turrets? There's no way that their reflexes can keep up with ships moving at near light speeds. The borg/federation at least use computers to calculate complex trajectories.
-Diomedes | |
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kyrin
Commander
3157 Posts
| | 08/06/2006 7:17 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by MeowPao
quote:
Originally posted by Lachlarlan_the_Mad
quote:
Originally posted by Ridureyu
Nay, the Yuuhzan Vong would win, hands down.
Yes, I'm sure not even the Borg shields can stop a moon sized asteroid from impacting a Cube.
I think the Borg has enough intelligence to just avoid the moon sized rock? lol!
That's an odd statement. That's like asking if you have enough intelligence to avoid a bullet. Or at the other end of the spectrum, a building falling on you.
It's not a matter of intelligence.
JIM
aka kyrin | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
11498 Posts
In ur house, stealin' yur minis
| | 08/06/2006 7:21 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by kyrin
quote:
Originally posted by MeowPao
quote:
Originally posted by Lachlarlan_the_Mad
quote:
Originally posted by Ridureyu
Nay, the Yuuhzan Vong would win, hands down.
Yes, I'm sure not even the Borg shields can stop a moon sized asteroid from impacting a Cube.
I think the Borg has enough intelligence to just avoid the moon sized rock? lol!
That's an odd statement. That's like asking if you have enough intelligence to avoid a bullet. Or at the other end of the spectrum, a building falling on you.
It's not a matter of intelligence.
JIM
aka kyrin
The Borg might in fact just fly into the first moon sized asteroid, thinking that it can't really hurt them. The Borg cube would then be destroyed.
However, the Borg learn and adapt. This tactic would quickly be adapted for and the next moon sized asteroid would bever come close to hitting the next cube.
Then, fifty more cubes would appear.
Bye-bye Empire.
Resistance is futile! | |
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Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
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Diomedes
Commander
3173 Posts
| | 08/07/2006 9:37 AM |
| quote:
That's an odd statement. That's like asking if you have enough intelligence to avoid a bullet. Or at the other end of the spectrum, a building falling on you.
It's not a matter of intelligence.
JIM
aka kyrin
I think it is. Let's start with the (pretty safe) assumption that moon sized asteroid doesn't appear out of thin air. From that, the borg would certainly have picked it up on their scanners long long before it reached them.
The next assumption is that a moon sized asteroid lacks the ability and structural integrity to maneuver. From this, we would assume that it was hurled very quickly along a set trajectory.
Given what we know, the borg would then have to stay on course without altering it for a considerable period of time (from the moment their long range scanners picked it up until impact).
So are you smart enough to dodge a bullet? Maybe. If a Gun could fire from 10 miles away, and you were told "The gun just fired", I would guess you'd have enough time to side step the bullet.
-Diomedes | |
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RobWreck
Warrior
295 Posts
| | 08/07/2006 10:30 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Diomedes
quote:
That's an odd statement. That's like asking if you have enough intelligence to avoid a bullet. Or at the other end of the spectrum, a building falling on you.
It's not a matter of intelligence.
JIM
aka kyrin
I think it is. Let's start with the (pretty safe) assumption that moon sized asteroid doesn't appear out of thin air. From that, the borg would certainly have picked it up on their scanners long long before it reached them.
The next assumption is that a moon sized asteroid lacks the ability and structural integrity to maneuver. From this, we would assume that it was hurled very quickly along a set trajectory.
Given what we know, the borg would then have to stay on course without altering it for a considerable period of time (from the moment their long range scanners picked it up until impact).
So are you smart enough to dodge a bullet? Maybe. If a Gun could fire from 10 miles away, and you were told "The gun just fired", I would guess you'd have enough time to side step the bullet.
-Diomedes
So that just means that the rock/moon/whatever has to be hurled fast enough that the Borg's long-range sensors do not pick it up ealy enough to respond to the incoming projectile. Just like your ears don't pick up the sound of the bullet coming from the gun fast enough for your body to respond to the sound of gunfire.
On the flip side, anything in the Star Trek universe could easily stand up to anything from the Star Wars universe for the simple reason that Star Trek ships are immune to laser fire (I forgot where I saw that the Enterprise's hull was reflective to lasers), whereas virtually all the energy weapons in Star Wars are laser wweapons. I'd take a few photon torpedos over any other Star Wars ship-to-ship weapons. Star Wars wins on the personal combat level (hand-to-hand) though...
Rob
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orcdoubleax
Sergeant
694 Posts
| | 08/07/2006 11:29 AM |
| It is a generally held and widly accepted fact that Star Trek technology is superiour to star wars technology.
the federation would still lose to the empire on shear numbers in an extend war. The inclusion of jedi or sith would also help the star wars universe.
The borg are a different story they are not only superiou on a technolgy level they also have a advantage in numbers over even the empire.
The borg should have easily defeated the federation but the federation was saved by bullshit storylines that made little sense. the writers had put themselves into a corner with the creation of the borg and how they got out of it was less then pretty.
Borg agaist the less advanced star wars universe would be brutal. The death star could destroy a cube regarless of adaptation, but it fires the main weapon very slowly and likly would not ever get a chance to hit a second cube. outside of that it would be a borg cakewalk.
If i ever get around to playing Star wars RPG I am going to be a Borg wookie bezerker assult troop. [:D] | |
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Avatar of the Irrelevant
Diomedes
Commander
3173 Posts
| | 08/07/2006 11:41 AM |
| quote:
So that just means that the rock/moon/whatever has to be hurled fast enough that the Borg's long-range sensors do not pick it up ealy enough to respond to the incoming projectile. Just like your ears don't pick up the sound of the bullet coming from the gun fast enough for your body to respond to the sound of gunfire.
Well, I have no idea where the hurling the asteroid idea came from (I'm guessing a book that I never read), so I don't know for sure, but I don't think that the empire had the technology to propel the rock fast enough to outpace the borg long range sensors.
Add to this the problem of actually getting the asteroid to accelerate that quickly without smashing it... The enterprise can jump to light speed and halt due (if I recall correctly) to the inertial dampeners. Otherwise the force of the acceleration would rip the ship apart. An asteroid shouldn't have that ability.
(also, this is definitely the most geeky conversation I've had in months, thanks ;p)
-Diomedes | |
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Monsoon28
Underboss
2299 Posts
Toronto
| | 08/07/2006 9:11 PM |
| Oh god can't believe I'm going to get invovled in a Star Wars Vs Star Trek style debate...oh well.
First Star Wars has Ion Canons which disrupt electronic including/especially computers.
Hence all those manned gun turrents on a Star Destroyer.
Second forget the Death Star, in the expanded universe we've seen: Super Star Destoyers equipped with an 1/8th power superlaser, a 'portable' Death Star Gunship, Centrepoint Station, and oh ya...Sun Crusher. Then we have the 'Dark' side of the Force and those nasty 'Force Storms'.
You want automated gun fire you get millions of Assassin Droids (like IG-88), War Droids (like Lando's Vong-droids) all of which put to shame those sad little droids we saw in the 'Prequels'.
Borg maybe be able to adapt but there is no way they can cope with the numbers and therefore loose any 'ground battle'.
What Star Trek has is Warp-Speed, which still keeps them in the 'real world' instead of 'hyperspace'(both have there benefits and downsides, though travel through hyperspace is vastly faster and both would be affected by gravity-well generators).
Phase modulated lasers or Phasers, which allow them to fire at warp-speed.
Transporter technology, which if they had the balls they could transport a nuke into an enemy ship as soon as it's shield went down. Just like they did in Stargate Atlantis against the Wraith.
Star Trek has small-scale replicator technology.
Where as the Empire built huge ships with the capacity to 'eat' other ships and use the base molecules to create droid controlled star fighters. They can't replicate anything as yummy as a 'Cheesecake slightly chilled' but they can make more war machines which would be more useful in this discussion.
So who would win?
Kirk! He'd double-hand smash them all into submission! [:P] | |
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kyrin
Commander
3157 Posts
| | 08/08/2006 12:06 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Monsoon28
So who would win?
Kirk! He'd double-hand smash them all into submission! [:P]
And after unleashing the power of the Two-Handed Fist on his foes, he'd ride off with Princess Leia.
"So, you... say you have a slave girl outfit? Tell me... more..."
Kirk is truly the Elvis of Space.
JIM
aka kyrin | |
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Monsoon28
Underboss
2299 Posts
Toronto
| | 08/08/2006 7:25 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by kyrin
And after unleashing the power of the Two-Handed Fist on his foes, he'd ride off with Princess Leia.
"So, you... say you have a slave girl outfit? Tell me... more..."
Kirk is truly the Elvis of Space.
JIM
aka kyrin
LoL! Aye he is and now he's Elvis of Court-room dramas. [:D] | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
11498 Posts
In ur house, stealin' yur minis
| | 08/08/2006 8:10 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Monsoon28
You want automated gun fire you get millions of Assassin Droids (like IG-88), War Droids (like Lando's Vong-droids) all of which put to shame those sad little droids we saw in the 'Prequels'.
Borg maybe be able to adapt but there is no way they can cope with the numbers and therefore loose any 'ground battle'.
The following said with passion, not anger. [:D]
Okay, my brain is exploding here. Numbers? you think the Borg don't have numbers? They've assimilated thousands of cultures.
Plus, have you watched any Borg episodes of Star Trek? THEY ADAPT! It's what they do. You get one shot, maybe two and then YOU ARE DONE because they adapt to whatever weapon you are using and you can't hurt them anymore with that weapon.
What happened when 50+ star ships met one Borg cube at Wolf 359? The one Borg cube DESTROYED all 50+ star ships.
If they had made it to earth, they would have assimilated billions of people. Then they would have gone to Vulcan and assimilated billions more. Then the Romulans, then the Klingons, then the Cardassians, then the Ferengi, then the Andorians, then the whole rest of the freaking Milky Way galaxy.
Don't have the numbers, shya right.
Winner BORG!
[:D]
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Monsoon28
Underboss
2299 Posts
Toronto
| | 08/08/2006 9:04 AM |
| I'm still right Borg Don't have the numbers.
Droids are constantly built, production number's can always be increased, newer series of droids with 'random frequency' blasters, flamethrowers, rocket launchers, slug throwers etc. etc. etc. can be developed.
Heck a good old droid punch should be enough to crush the skull of a Borg.
Borg assimilate, this take time, especially when when the subject needs to be 'adult aged' to be of any use.
It's like in the clone wars...populations need time to replenish, armies built on assembly lines need only resources...and a Galaxy has alot of resources.
In the numbers game the Borg just wouldn't be able to keep up in the end.
quote:
What happened when 50+ star ships met one Borg cube at Wolf 359? The one Borg cube DESTROYED all 50+ star ships.
But yet one lone starship the Enterprise still survived, or even Voyager for that matter. And none of those 50+ ships was capable of destroying planets and such... Maybe if they didn't bane the Genesis Project or have some stupid self-imposed bane on cloaking technology, they wouldn't have been obliterated.
Maybe if the Federation wasn't so afraid of Augmented Humans like Khan or Dr Bashier (Sp? To lazy to comfirm) or made more use of their Telepathic/Empathic communities they'd be better able to deal with the Borg.
Heck Maybe if they used more combat ship like the Defiant rather then just armed 'exploration' ships like Enterpries they wouldn't have been destroyed so easily.
But this is all fiction anyway, and the writers of Star Trek were hamstringing the Federation for their own reasons. | |
"I was sittin' here eatin' my muffin, drinkin' my coffee, replayin' the incident in my head, when I had what alcoholics refer to as a moment of clarity." - Jules Winnfield
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Count Dooku
Commander
4636 Posts
New York
| | 08/08/2006 9:38 AM |
| I gotta agree with Ghendar in terms of numbers (why am I involving myself in this rediculus discussion?...Oh well to late now [:)])
The Bord assimilate entire planets. Its not like droid factories or cloning facilities. They take every man, woman and even child and assimilate them.
If the Borg were to assilimilate the Earth for example..They would take every living human being on the planet and assimilate them. Every human woul dbe outfitted with the weapons and technology needed to be a Borg. One planet..just one..conquered planet equals BILLIONS of new Borg to add to the Collective.
You cant compare that to the rate clones or droids are produced.
And Im not a Star Trek expert..But cant enery shields deflect solid matter? Every time someone talks abotut how they can adapt their shields to deal with blasters or lazers someone tries to counter it with droid punches or asteroids.
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MeowPao
Skirmisher
47 Posts
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Count Dooku
Commander
4636 Posts
New York
| | 08/08/2006 9:50 AM |
| quote:
Does SW have any 'ladies man' like Kirk? hehe! :)
Of Course!
Lando Calrissian.....smoothest brotha in the galaxy. [:)] | |
Champion of the Skulk
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
11498 Posts
In ur house, stealin' yur minis
| | 08/08/2006 10:06 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Count Dooku
I gotta agree with Ghendar in terms of numbers (why am I involving myself in this rediculus discussion?...Oh well to late now [:)])
It's totally ridiculous. That's why it's fun! [:D] | |
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