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 Faragdar the Wise Commander
 3467 Posts



 Albuquerque, NM, USA
 | | 04/22/2007 1:00 PM |
| Posted By gss_000 on 04/22/2007 10:35 AM Not as far out as you think. If this was a Living Greyhawk game, 6 level 13 characters are APL 14. That would make Xykon CR only 5 lelvels higher. While it would meanthere is a good chance at least a character would die... It's one thing for a party of 6 adventurers to face an encounter with EL 5 higher than their APL--that's bad, but manageable if the EL is high because of numbers of opponents. A large party can handle larger numbers of opponents. It's quite another for that same party to meet a single creature with a CR that beats the party's average level by 6. A DM would have to be working with great restraint to avoid killing off at least one party member in that situation.
| | "Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish." - Albert Einstein Champion of Myopic Half-Orcs Winner, WBC X | |
|  zenthrus Commander
 4788 Posts



 SLC, UT
 | | 04/22/2007 2:14 PM |
| Posted By Teflon Jeff on 04/20/2007 8:36 AM yeah, and I pronounce it Zi-Con
Rhymes with Icon.
Yup. Corim nailed it on the head. Etymologically Xy is always pronounced /zigh/ (sounds like sigh but with an initial /z/). Phonetic hard /k/ plus -on (like the word "on"). So, Xykon = zigh-con (which does rhyme with icon).
Any other pronunciation is wonky (and would lead to other wonky pronunciations like ksee-low-peh-hone-ee for xylophone).
As to the strip...silly PCs should actually take the BBEG's advice. Seriously. Go enjoy an adventure path or two (perhaps go on an expedition to the demonweb pits or something like that), level up a bit, acquire better loot...er, equipment, and then whoop Xykon upside the head. APL 14 vs. BBEG 20 +CR modifier for being a lich (IIRC +5) is just asking for a TPK.
Obviously Xykon is just playing with the OotS. Otherwise he could drop the Time Stop/Multiple Meteor Swarm lovin' and watch the good times roll.
| | Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie? Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers Knight of the Large Dire Chicken Have/Want List Trade References | |
| gss_000 Commander
 3204 Posts



 Baltimore, MD
 | | 04/22/2007 2:36 PM |
| Posted By Faragdar the Wise on 04/22/2007 1:00 PM
It's one thing for a party of 6 adventurers to face an encounter with EL 5 higher than their APL--that's bad, but manageable if the EL is high because of numbers of opponents. A large party can handle larger numbers of opponents. It's quite another for that same party to meet a single creature with a CR that beats the party's average level by 6. A DM would have to be working with great restraint to avoid killing off at least one party member in that situation.
As I said, most likely one would die, but 6 on one even at that difference isn't as bad as one might think. It's not necessarily instant death. Here, it's from a template, too, and the type of template really affects things (I'd rather fight a 17th level wizard lich at 13 than a 24 HD half-fiend behir, the same CR).Â
Frankly, most of the time, if an encounter is just one guy, I find it less of a challenge than multiple opponents. Don't get me wrong, it is a tough fight and there are close calls, but a well designed party can do it.
| | Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
| Richard II Commander
 3663 Posts




 | | 04/23/2007 12:53 PM |
| | Heh. Roy fell down went boom. Actually he went splat, but whatever. | |
 | |
| gss_000 Commander
 3204 Posts



 Baltimore, MD
 | | 04/23/2007 1:59 PM |
| Oh yeah, an addendum to what I said before:
while 6 on 1 doable. 1 on 1 is suicide. | | Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
| Knight of Argenis Corim Danex Warlord
 6594 Posts



 West Valley City, Utah
 | | 04/23/2007 9:21 PM |
| | Well, I wasn't actually expecting the splat...I'm not expecting Roy's status to go unchanged for a great length of time. | | "Look to God and live." Alma 37:47 Ha 80/80---De 60/60---Ar 60/60---GoL 72/72---Ab 60/60---Dk 60/60---Af 60/60---Ud 60/60---WD 60/60---WDQ 60/60---BW 60/60---UH 60/60---NB 60/60---DDe 60/60---SSB 59/60 (Does anyone want to buy my SSB collection?) Champion of Something, I imagine I will think of something Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
| yack Commander
 3152 Posts



 Ottawa, Canada
 | | 04/24/2007 6:12 AM |
| Good guys have to die sometimes...!  | | Champion of the Peryton Vindicated Champion : Pit Fiend, Devourer ATG: Fog Giant DW: Duergar Priest RPG Only!!!! The Drumming Drunkn' DM | |
| gss_000 Commander
 3204 Posts



 Baltimore, MD
 | | 04/24/2007 3:56 PM |
| As we're waiting to see what happens, I just thought I'd mention something unrelated to the current topic: V's gender.
So I was reading the 2nd printed volume and reading the Rich's notes on the section where V is turned into a lizard and they battle a black dragon. When he describes V, he uses he "he" pronoun throughout the section, where every other time before that he uses "he/she" or is ambiguous. Was this a telling mistake or laziness, for lack of a better word?
| | Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
| Omand Commander
 3117 Posts



 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
 | | Master of the Awesome Sauce Teflon Jeff Warlord
 7056 Posts



 Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
 | | 04/25/2007 4:21 PM |
| Posted By ShadowLord XT on 04/20/2007 6:34 PM What 3 things are you talking about?
Now we kow Xykon's level. Can a band of 6 13th level PCs take on one 20th level lich (+ minions?)?
Xykon's reasonable listing of 3 things in the comic. Sorry if it came out wierd.
| | Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
| ShadowLord XT Commander
 2626 Posts



 Plane of Shadow
 | | 04/26/2007 6:40 AM |
| | Roy's dead, but I think the pendant will have been broken in the fall. I think we are going to see Celia again. | | Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos. Champion of Half-Golems Knight of Golems "This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun "anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
| yack Commander
 3152 Posts



 Ottawa, Canada
 | | 04/26/2007 12:12 PM |
| | hahahaha that last scene with the flumphs is classic...... love it when they bring back past jokes. | | Champion of the Peryton Vindicated Champion : Pit Fiend, Devourer ATG: Fog Giant DW: Duergar Priest RPG Only!!!! The Drumming Drunkn' DM | |
| gss_000 Commander
 3204 Posts



 Baltimore, MD
 | | 04/26/2007 12:56 PM |
| | I do like the "Are there X's on the eyes" quote. Didn't we discuss something like that here before? | | Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
| ShadowLord XT Commander
 2626 Posts



 Plane of Shadow
 | | 04/26/2007 5:20 PM |
| Posted By gss_000 on 04/26/2007 12:56 PM I do like the "Are there X's on the eyes" quote. Didn't we discuss something like that here before?
Ya, I asked that because I wasn't sure if Nale was dead in one strip or not. | | Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos. Champion of Half-Golems Knight of Golems "This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun "anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
| scruffydude7 Underboss
 1196 Posts



 Rock Hill, SC
 | | 04/26/2007 6:59 PM |
| Posted By gss_000 on 04/24/2007 3:56 PM As we're waiting to see what happens, I just thought I'd mention something unrelated to the current topic: V's gender.
So I was reading the 2nd printed volume and reading the Rich's notes on the section where V is turned into a lizard and they battle a black dragon. When he describes V, he uses he "he" pronoun throughout the section, where every other time before that he uses "he/she" or is ambiguous. Was this a telling mistake or laziness, for lack of a better word?
I have always thought Vaarsuvius was a guy since Roy called him "V-man" here:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0009.html
I never really took the ambiguous gender jokes as leaving it up for speculation as to what gender Vaarsuvius was, I just saw it as making fun of androgynous elves in general.
| | Champion of the Revenant Knight of the Elf Duskblade Complete Trades: Oni, Kidkach, Melrune, callidusx3 | |
| Knight of Argenis Corim Danex Warlord
 6594 Posts



 West Valley City, Utah
 | | 04/26/2007 9:16 PM |
| Posted By gss_000 on 04/24/2007 3:56 PM As we're waiting to see what happens, I just thought I'd mention something unrelated to the current topic: V's gender.
So I was reading the 2nd printed volume and reading the Rich's notes on the section where V is turned into a lizard and they battle a black dragon. When he describes V, he uses he "he" pronoun throughout the section, where every other time before that he uses "he/she" or is ambiguous. Was this a telling mistake or laziness, for lack of a better word?
There are other times when V is called a she, or feminine pronouns are used
| | "Look to God and live." Alma 37:47 Ha 80/80---De 60/60---Ar 60/60---GoL 72/72---Ab 60/60---Dk 60/60---Af 60/60---Ud 60/60---WD 60/60---WDQ 60/60---BW 60/60---UH 60/60---NB 60/60---DDe 60/60---SSB 59/60 (Does anyone want to buy my SSB collection?) Champion of Something, I imagine I will think of something Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
| gss_000 Commander
 3204 Posts



 Baltimore, MD
 | | 04/26/2007 11:18 PM |
| | Were these by the author or in the strip? I'm just trying to keep track. Thanks. | | Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
| ShadowLord XT Commander
 2626 Posts



 Plane of Shadow
 | | 04/28/2007 6:51 AM |
| Another classic Belkar moment:
Hobgoblin: "I think theres' something in my eye." Belkar: (sticks dagger in hobgoblin's eye) "Got it." | | Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos. Champion of Half-Golems Knight of Golems "This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun "anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
| Master of the Awesome Sauce Teflon Jeff Warlord
 7056 Posts



 Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
 | | 04/30/2007 2:21 PM |
| Yeah, that had me laughing for a good 10 seconds. then I had to quickly switch windows. Darn Supervisors...
| | Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
| Monsoon28 Underboss
 2290 Posts



 Toronto
 | | 04/30/2007 9:29 PM |
| ROFL!
Todays comic was great, 'EVIL: A Growth Industrty'. Too funny oh and NASDAC Symbol: DOOM. hahahaha
My favourite in a while.
| | "I was sittin' here eatin' my muffin, drinkin' my coffee, replayin' the incident in my head, when I had what alcoholics refer to as a moment of clarity." - Jules Winnfield Sales/Trades Bad (1): Ironfist Boulderbender Trades/Sales completed (8.): Danthl, Dafrca, Garyaxe, qillan_dvra, realmaster, Vandal_Savage, cavedweller, unearthed arcana. Champion of Gem Dragons, VINDICATED Squire of Duergar Commander, Knight of the Astral Stalker.
| |
| Master of the Awesome Sauce Teflon Jeff Warlord
 7056 Posts



 Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
 | | 05/01/2007 10:03 AM |
| I wonder if they have a local office I could apply at...
| | Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
| Sulaco Underboss
 1605 Posts




 | | 05/01/2007 2:46 PM |
| "Welcome to Team Evil." Awesome.
| | Champion of the Gelatinous Cube. Nemesis of Gnomes and Dinosaurs.
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. ~ Terry Pratchett | |
| gss_000 Commander
 3204 Posts



 Baltimore, MD
 | | 05/02/2007 9:31 AM |
| Using convicts, maybe not the best idea. As was once said, "Evil wil win because Good is stupid."  | | Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
|  Faragdar the Wise Commander
 3467 Posts



 Albuquerque, NM, USA
 | | 05/02/2007 10:35 AM |
| Posted By gss_000 on 05/02/2007 9:31 AM Using convicts, maybe not the best idea. As was once said, "Evil wil win because Good is stupid."  Now, now. Let's get our movie quotes right - "...now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." | | "Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish." - Albert Einstein Champion of Myopic Half-Orcs Winner, WBC X | |
| Dordledum Commander
 3149 Posts



 Netherlands
 | | 05/03/2007 7:27 AM |
| Posted By gss_000 on 04/24/2007 3:56 PM As we're waiting to see what happens, I just thought I'd mention something unrelated to the current topic: V's gender.
So I was reading the 2nd printed volume and reading the Rich's notes on the section where V is turned into a lizard and they battle a black dragon. When he describes V, he uses he "he" pronoun throughout the section, where every other time before that he uses "he/she" or is ambiguous. Was this a telling mistake or laziness, for lack of a better word?
Always thought V was a She, remember the episode that V and Haley shared a room and all the guys were listening in? But in my opinion all elves are "she".
D. | | Member of the Bearded Devils Champion of the Huge Spider (WotDQ 46/60), A New Umber Hulk (DoDe 57/60), and Hardcopy Printed DDM 2.0 Stat-Cards for all Minis! | |
| Master of the Awesome Sauce Teflon Jeff Warlord
 7056 Posts



 Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
 | | 05/03/2007 9:05 AM |
| Posted By Dordledum on 05/03/2007 7:27 AM ... Â But in my opinion all elves are "she".
It's funny because it's true.
| | Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
| gss_000 Commander
 3204 Posts



 Baltimore, MD
 | | 05/04/2007 12:19 AM |
| Last panel of today's strip: doesn't seem like a fair encounter. | | Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
|  Faragdar the Wise Commander
 3467 Posts



 Albuquerque, NM, USA
 | | 05/04/2007 12:43 PM |
| | Yeah, I almost feel bad for the Paladins...almost. | | "Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish." - Albert Einstein Champion of Myopic Half-Orcs Winner, WBC X | |
| gss_000 Commander
 3204 Posts



 Baltimore, MD
 | | 05/04/2007 6:08 PM |
| | Do you think they're blue-blooded as well? | | Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
|  Fun Guy from Yuggoth Cthulhufnord Warlord
 10719 Posts



 Umass Amherst Baby!
 | | 05/04/2007 9:53 PM |
| | Best use of a Rubber ball ever..... well aside from Happy Fun ball. | | Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulûk, agh burzum-ishi krimpatul | |
| ShadowLord XT Commander
 2626 Posts



 Plane of Shadow
 | | 05/05/2007 2:53 PM |
| | That's an awsome magic item. | | Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos. Champion of Half-Golems Knight of Golems "This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun "anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
| gss_000 Commander
 3204 Posts



 Baltimore, MD
 | | 05/06/2007 8:45 AM |
| | I really don't want any GM to get ideas from this strip. | | Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
| Master of the Awesome Sauce Teflon Jeff Warlord
 7056 Posts



 Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
 | | 05/07/2007 11:36 AM |
| Oh man, I totally have some GREAT ideas now.
That strip is great, it's good to have evil genius Xykon back.
| | Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
| Knight of Argenis Corim Danex Warlord
 6594 Posts



 West Valley City, Utah
 | | 05/07/2007 2:20 PM |
| | In some ways it is interesting seeing Xykon stop playing dumb and unleash. In other ways, it is terrible seeing the results when I am rooting for the other guys. | | "Look to God and live." Alma 37:47 Ha 80/80---De 60/60---Ar 60/60---GoL 72/72---Ab 60/60---Dk 60/60---Af 60/60---Ud 60/60---WD 60/60---WDQ 60/60---BW 60/60---UH 60/60---NB 60/60---DDe 60/60---SSB 59/60 (Does anyone want to buy my SSB collection?) Champion of Something, I imagine I will think of something Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
| Star Sergeant
 978 Posts



 New Britain, CT
 | | 05/07/2007 3:12 PM |
| Posted By Corim Danex on 05/07/2007 2:20 PM
In other ways, it is terrible seeing the results when I am rooting for the other guys. If Xykon and his army were easy to beat then it wouldn't mean much when the OOTS eventually win.
| | Champion of Gromph Baenre | |
| gss_000 Commander
 3204 Posts



 Baltimore, MD
 | | 05/07/2007 4:58 PM |
| Posted By Corim Danex on 05/07/2007 2:20 PM In some ways it is interesting seeing Xykon stop playing dumb and unleash. In other ways, it is terrible seeing the results when I am rooting for the other guys. Check out the pne that just posted. It might make you feel better.Â
| | Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
| ShadowLord XT Commander
 2626 Posts



 Plane of Shadow
 | | 05/07/2007 6:29 PM |
| Are there even bouncy balls in D&D? No magic, I mean just a plain bouncy ball. If so I would like to lauch a couple of those from a slingshot. Actually if it is magical you could cast permanency on it and let the fun begin. Or make it living and as soon as you know it it's a DDM figure. Horray for 50 bludgeoning dmg at full speed! | | Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos. Champion of Half-Golems Knight of Golems "This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun "anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
| kyrin Commander
 3152 Posts




 | | 05/07/2007 8:42 PM |
| Oh, Lordy Lordy.
New OOTS is up.
I did NOT see that coming.
Get over there. Now. Thank me later.
Daaaaaaaaaaaaang.
JIM aka kyrin | | My Have/Want List <-|-|->My Trades and References 1 <-|-|->My Trades and References 2 Pronounce "Drow" like "crow"! Viva la Revolution! We Shall Overcome! Vindicated Champion of the Stirge! Vindicated Champion of the Githyanki Knight on Red Dragon!! Vindicated Champion of the Androsphinx! | |
| Master of the Awesome Sauce Teflon Jeff Warlord
 7056 Posts



 Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
 | | 05/08/2007 8:43 AM |
| I so want to pull that last panel for an avatar.
| | Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
|  Faragdar the Wise Commander
 3467 Posts



 Albuquerque, NM, USA
 | | 05/08/2007 9:19 AM |
| Posted By kyrin on 05/07/2007 8:42 PM Oh, Lordy Lordy.
New OOTS is up.
I did NOT see that coming.
Get over there. Now. Thank me later.
Daaaaaaaaaaaaang.
JIM aka kyrin I have to agree. Did not see that coming, and that's just sweet. Chalk up one for the good guys. Looks like Xykon's plan just went south in a big way. | | "Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish." - Albert Einstein Champion of Myopic Half-Orcs Winner, WBC X | |
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