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Subject: Chrome Dragon Art 4/23/06 Tournament Report

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Kalrin
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04/23/2006 10:31 PM  
Well... here's what I can say from memory (Feel free to correct/add stuff for me being wrong)

Me

Dragon Shrine
-------------
Human Blackguard 46
Duergar Champion x2 66
Efreeti 42
Zakya Raskasha 36
Kobold Miner x2 6
Goblin Warrior 3

199 pts. 8 Activations

DoubtofBuddha

NOST II
?? pts. ?? Activations

Neil

Urthok the Vicious 34
Helmed Horror 45
Chraal 35
Efreeti 42
Duergar Champion 33
Kobold Miner 3
FORGOTTEN

192+ pts 6+ Activations

Sam

Magma Keep
----------
Red Samurai x2 80
Ryld 55
Death Slaad 53
Orc Warrior 3
Hyena 4
Timber Wolf 5

200 pts. 7 Activations

Scarlet

Shuluth 59
Chraal x3 105
Gravehound x3 33
Goblin Skirmisher 3

200 pts. 8 Activations

Bud Leiser (Pardon me if I mispelled your name)

Dragon Shrine
-------------
Young Master 44
Gith Monk x4 136
Aramil 13
Human Commoner x2 6

199 pts. 8 Activations

Claire

Rakshasa 41
Duergar Champion x2 66
Chraal 35
Helmed Horror 45
Timber Wolf x2 10

197 pts. 7 Activations

SOMEONE

Death Slaad x2 106
Blue Slaad 50
*Incorporeal Something*

SOMEONE ELSE

Jim

Placing (Rough Guess)

1. DoubtofBuddha
2. Sam
3. Bud Leiser
4. Jim
5. Neil
6. }
7. } I'm not sure who placed in here
8. }
9. Me
10. Scarlet

My Games:

Me Vs. Neil
------------
I lost. I probably could have played better. It was my map too :).

Me Vs. Sam
----------
His map. My dice hated me. I rolled upwards of 4 1's during the match. My play was not optimal, but if luck had been with me, that would have helped alot more then the small mistakes I made. I lost.

Me Vs. Bud Leiser
-----------------
Map didn't matter. He left his Young Master open early so I was able to kill it by round 3, but I suffered too much damage. It was close, but just out of reach. I lost.

Me Vs. Scarlet
--------------
To give her credit for her third game ever she played well. Just Triple Chraal isn't the best band, especially when I got choice of map and sides. Also, she had a bad roll on morale which gave me access to Shuluth. I won.

Me Vs. Claire
-------------
My Map. I pinged the Chraal early on. It was close, but the clinchers were me winning key initiatives and her failing conceal checks on my Duergars half-way through the engagement. I won.

So I ended up 2-3 and fufilled my motto: "Not Last"

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doubtofbuddha
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04/24/2006 12:09 AM  
Chris played:
Death Slaad x2
Blue Slaad
Orc Wardrummer
2 Troglodytes Cursed Spirit
Map: Field of Ruin

Mike played:
Eye of Gruumsh
Orc Champion
Death Slaad
2 Arcane Guards
2 Orc Savages

Final Standings were (I think)
1. DoubtofBuddha (5-1); Map: Broken Demongate
2. Sam (4-2); Map: Magma Keep
3. Bud Leiser (4-1); Map: Dragon Shrine
4. Jim (3-2); Map: Broken Demongate
5. Neil (3-2); Map: Keep of Fallen Kings 1
6. Mike (3-2); Map: Drow Outpost
7. Chris (2-3); Map: Fields of Ruin
8. Martin (2-3); Map: Dragon Shrine
9. Claire (1-4); Map: Magma Keep
10. Scarlet (0-5); Map: Mithral Mines

Faction Breakdown:
Lawful Good: 1 (3)
Lawful Evil: 5 (4;5;8;9;10)
Chaotic Evil: 3 (2;6;7)
Unknown: 1 (1)

Map Breakdown:
Broken Demongate: 2 (1;4)
Magma Keep: 2 (2;9)
Dragon Shrine: 2 (3;8)
Keep of Fallen Kings 1: 1 (5)
Drow Outpost: 1 (6)
Fields of Ruin: 1 (7)
Mithral Mines: 1 (10)

I am not gone.
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doubtofbuddha
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04/24/2006 12:11 AM  
My Rounds Pairings:
1: Jim Bok (mindtrick); Map: Broken Demongate; Good Side; Win
2: Neil Mclellan (neilasaurus); Map: Broken Demongate; Good Side; Win
3: Sam Santos (lalato); Magna Keep; Straight Side; Lost
4: Chris Squires; Broken Demongate; Good Side; Win
5: Mike; Drow Outpost; Enclosed Side; Win
6 (Finals): Sam Santos; Magma Keep; Straight Hallway; Win

I picked Runelord's Justice Archon repaint. It got a place of honor on my shelf next to the Flameskull repaint and the Half-Fiend Ogre repaint.

I am not gone.

lalato
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Urbana, IL

04/24/2006 12:25 AM  
quote:
Sam

Magma Keep
----------
Red Samurai x2 80
Ryld 55
Death Slaad 53
Orc Warrior 3
Hyena 4
Timber Wolf 5

200 pts. 7 Activations


That's me.

I went for 4-1 in Swiss. I beat...

Chris Squires in Round 1. He was the Death Slaad x2 and Blue Slaad build. I made a mistake fairly early and lost Ryld to a Deadly Rend... but then the tide turned as I came back and pounded out the win with my remaaining figures.

Martin (Kalrin) in Round 2. As he noted above, his poor rolls doomed him.

Mike in Round 3. His build was Death Slaad, Drow Arcane Guard x2, Eye of Gruumsh, Orc Champion. He made some movement mistakes that I was able to capitalize on.

Jesse in Round 4. His NOST II warband was a true pain in the butt. One key to my victory was my Red Samurai failing his morale check, but being exactly 16 spaces away from the Exit square. The Red Sam, of course made his second check and I was able to win on points. Quite possibly the most nerve wracking game of the day.

I lost to Bud in Round 5. I simply could not hit with my primary attacks. On top of that I rolled poorly on many of my saves. It went downhill from there.

We broke to top 2, and I played Jesse again. The second match was not as kind to me. I hung in there as long as I could, but Jesse didn't make the same mistakes again. That... and I started on the wrong side of the map. ;)

--sam

I'm in Urbana, IL

kreylan
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04/24/2006 2:23 AM  
So the time of tournaments with secret warbands has finally begun...

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Sirohk
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04/24/2006 12:33 PM  
Any chance of finding out what NOST II is? [:p][)][:D]

Pretty please?




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doubtofbuddha
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04/24/2006 12:48 PM  
Its not NOST 1. :P

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shemnon
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04/24/2006 3:30 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by doubtofbuddha

Its not NOST 1. :P



WTF? You think it is fair to reveal what other people played in a public tournoment but refuse to reveal yout own warband that was played in a public tournoment? I get it if you have yet to reveal your warband and haven't played it yet, but this is rediculous. Be consistant at least!

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Kalrin
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04/24/2006 4:44 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by shemnon

WTF? You think it is fair to reveal what other people played in a public tournoment but refuse to reveal yout own warband that was played in a public tournoment? I get it if you have yet to reveal your warband and haven't played it yet, but this is rediculous. Be consistant at least!



doubtofbuddha specifically requested that I not reveal his warband. I respect his wishes and haven't done so. No one else at that tournament requested that kind of treatment and if they had I would have been just as willing to give it (and I'm sure he would have done the same). Thus I don't see any inconsistancy


robbdaman
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04/24/2006 6:22 PM  
Except for the fact that he won the tournament with his warband. I have knowledge of what is in the warband so it's not as big of a deal to me but I will say posting a tournament report without posting a winning warband is basically sort of pointless and worthless. This isn't a slam on either DoB or you Kalrin directly but seriously the only thing this report tells you is what didn't win. Reports are about what did.

R~

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doubtofbuddha
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04/24/2006 6:49 PM  
No problem. I will cease posting tournament reports then.

I am not gone.

robbdaman
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04/24/2006 7:01 PM  
Honestly it might be for the better. If you're posting tournament reports from now until June 11th with a bunch of ?????s it's sure to annoy a few people like shemnon. Ya know?

R~

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04/24/2006 7:09 PM  
Fair enough. The main reason I posted this was for the locals as well as my practice partners to have some raw data on how it did. I will just send it direct to them next time.

I am not gone.

neilasaurus
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04/24/2006 7:31 PM  
Hey I said to not post my Warband either! Its so NOSTY! No one would ever think of 4 hitters and Urthok!
Oh wait you didn't say what the secret awesome 8 points were that allowed me to beat 3 people rated below 1600, and lose to one, so I guess its ok.
We are sworn to secrecy what NOSTII is but I will say it involves a Medusa...ALL DAY!

My report:
Round 1: Opponent: Kalrin, see Kalrin's Round 1
Round 2: Opponent: DoubtofBuddha, faced the most invincible band ever, nuff said
Round 3: Opponent: Chris, Failed to roll a 7 or higher (Deadly Rend Save for Helmed Horror)
Round 4: Opponent: Claire, Took the Efreet for express purpose of nuking Chraals that got in between me and their commander, so that is what he did. Urthok (artist formerly known as Hobgoblin Fighter from Chainmail) hid the whole time because just didn't want to give enemy +2 to hit.
Round 5: Opponent: Scarlet, Faced player who was playing her first tournament and was for some reason given the most difficult band to play. As mentioned my warband was changed to take better care of Chraals and their commanders so Shuluth went down quick.

I went 5-1 last tournament and 3-2 this one. I think the lesson I learned was that painting doesn't help you wins games. Maybe I should have spent some (or any) time practicing my warband instead of painting Chainmail fig, nahh...

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guyf
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04/24/2006 7:52 PM  
I prefer partial reports over no reports at all. Some data is always better than no data. I can use the warbands and matchups that *were* discussed to analyze strengths.

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Official D&D Miniatures Net Rep

bshugg
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04/24/2006 8:15 PM  
I don't mind either way. We are all working with the same amount of data and figure choices. If people want to be sneaky-sneaky than thats their choice. Its better than posting false information.

I'm just curious why Jesse is concerned with keeping it secret when he is already qualified on ranking? The format will change before the championships anyways.

Looking for someone to cosponser a midwest DDM event. let me know if your interested!
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doubtofbuddha
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04/24/2006 8:20 PM  
Because I want to win that plane ticket. [)]

Besides, its a secret.

I am not gone.

robbdaman
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04/24/2006 8:24 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by doubtofbuddha

Because I want to win that plane ticket. [)]

Besides, its a secret.



LOL! Shhhhhh......

R~

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johnny.quest
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04/24/2006 8:25 PM  
I got an email from Hong Kong with leaked pictures of Jesse's warband.

neilasaurus
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04/24/2006 8:31 PM  
Sorry Johnny, now you must die!

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AesophDarkfable
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04/24/2006 9:18 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by guyf

I prefer partial reports over no reports at all. Some data is always better than no data. I can use the warbands and matchups that *were* discussed to analyze strengths.



I agree completely. Its part of the season, I don't see a problem with it.

Im out- find me on Hordelings if you want to chat.
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Kiddoc
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04/24/2006 10:48 PM  
Hehe. To me it just seems silly. Probably because I've been on both sides of the argument. Back when I first started playing, I kept my first qualifier warband a secret. Apparently I thought I was SO good and SO creative, nobody would suspect what I had coming at them, and I'd win on surprise alone. HA!

The thing that gets me is that Jesse played this warband in Florida, against a bunch of Florida players. So the question is, who is he keeping it a secret from? The "best" players in the area are all his confidants and have seen the warband anyways, and some of the best players in the US have discussed it with him. If I were keeping a warband a secret, it would be before Gencon where I have a national audience, not before a local qualifier where all the folks that have already seen it are likely to be the exact same folks that show up.

Of course, the possibility remains that Jesse is keeping it a secret because the GA qualifier happens first (which will blow ANY surprise at the FL qualifier, unless he erases months of practice and changes bands). Of course, according to the very prestigious "Qualifier Difficult Rankings" the GA qualifier is listed in the lowest category of competition: "Less Difficult;" Which further begs the question of: Just what the heck is he worried about?

I'm picking on Jesse now because I can, he's a good natured guy and not so thin-skinned as other folks can be--and he doesn't need "luck" or "surprise" to win a match, ever. But I've been on both sides of this, and taken my lumps for it. In retrospect, I was a bit too highly estimating my own creativity, and the role "surprise" would play in my victories. I felt like a jerk doing it, because I had to defend myself from people asking the same questions--and in the end it really gained me nothing. Not one single victory came to, nor a loss from, some highly "surprised" or highly personally metagamed warband/opponent. Lot of chatter and rough feelings for something that makes absolutely no difference anyway.

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ChristopherGroves
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04/24/2006 10:55 PM  
Even the Pally of Torm is survivable next to a WFBodyguard. I think his band rocks. When I think about his band I get all warm and fuzzy feeling.

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04/24/2006 11:31 PM  
Yup, I am using it for the Georgia Qualifier. No point in keeping the Florida players unknowing of it, because the Georgia Qualifier will result in other people knowing about it. Hell, it could very well come out earlier. I am not so arrogant to think that the build is sooo creative noone else can come up with it.

However, I am also well aware of the important of intelligence for the purpose of finding the right combination of pieces to run for a major tournament. Knowing what your major competition is bringing, is a nice edge in helping you put together the right warband and strategy for a tournament. And giving away what warband I will be bringing will give others who are playing against me an edge, no matter how small it may be.

And while I think highly of my skill, I still lose all the time, and I am expecting to lose at the tournament, so I am going to need that edge to help me get to my eventual goal...

::shrugs::

What I can't understand is why people who have no real stake in it are getting hot and bothered over the lack of me posting my band? Why does it matter to you? The general composition of the tournament is the same. How well all the other bands did is still present. Unless you felt a need to ape off of my band or meta against me, why does it matter whether my warband was there or not?

I am not gone.

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04/24/2006 11:55 PM  
I don't really have a stake in it at all either. I think it just boils down to the fact that people know who you are and that you're the number 1 ranked player in Florida and in the top 20 in the world. They want to know what you're playing. It's people like you that show a lot of other people what current metagame strong stuff is. That's at least how I see it. I didn't mean to turn this into a big discussion on why people should show their warbands or not though so I won't say anything more about it.

R~

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04/24/2006 11:58 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by doubtofbuddha



What I can't understand is why people who have no real stake in it are getting hot and bothered over the lack of me posting my band?



I don't know much about human behavior, but if I had to wager a guess, I think it might be for the same reason that people might get a bit miffed when the girl in skimpy clothes walks onto the stage, you drop a Hamilton into her lap, and she walks back behind the stage. Hey, did I read the neon sign here that said "Girls, girls, girls or what?!" It's human nature, people want to know what's underneath--especially when you're hot stuff.

So, when one of the top DDM players out there posts or comments on posts related to a tourney he took first place in, right at the pinnacle of qualifier preparation, folks are curious about the band. It's just human nature. People want to emulate the best. If I'm you Jess, I don't take it as criticism, I take it as flattery. Folks want to know what you're playing. They want to elvate the state of the game and their own level of competitiveness--one way to do that is learning from the best. So, I don't blame them for wanting to know, that sort of curiosity is just good for this game. Still, they're all big boys (and gals), they can get used to disappointment--there's lots of information out there.

Now, if you comment on reports that show up touting the efficacy of your band (whether directly or indirectly), and you don't produce the goods--that don't make ya a bad person. But it does kind of make you a tease. Hey, some people like to be teased. [:D]

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04/25/2006 12:11 AM  
Oh, I admit I am a tease. [:P]
That wasn't my goal in posting the match-ups though. I know certain people are working on doing interesting things with match-up information, and this data is useful for them and also encourages participation for locals, to talk about their own match-ups. (Though I would prefer if they post more info next time. ::coughs::)

Hopefully it has the double effect of increasing local involvement in maxminis and having some of the local players being more reflective about their matches. I know that tournament reports are usually helpful for me and are a big part of why I was able to learn as much as I did as quickly as I did, after I first started...

I am not gone.

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04/25/2006 1:56 AM  
Bah, if doubt wants to keep his warband secret, that's his business. It's not like he's obligated to share any of this information at all. Just remember, beggars can't be choosers.

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04/25/2006 6:43 AM  
DoubtofBuddha is one of the most respected and skilled players in the game today. I for one look forward to seeing his posts, thoughts, analysis, input, and comments. Who wouldn't. We all want to know what one of the best players in the world is playing.

But I also agree that it is hugely important to win at qaulifiers, and if that is one of DoB goals, then so be it. Everyone will be out to beat the DoB and if he feels he can gain even a slight edge to acheive his goal, then thats cool by me.

Hopefully, after qualifiers DoB will report his warband, how well he did with it, AND if this secrecy did indeed help and give him a competitive edge.

Good luck and my the die roll your way.

Cheers.


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04/25/2006 7:45 AM  
quote:
Originally posted by doubtofbuddha

What I can't understand is why people who have no real stake in it are getting hot and bothered over the lack of me posting my band? Why does it matter to you? The general composition of the tournament is the same. How well all the other bands did is still present. Unless you felt a need to ape off of my band or meta against me, why does it matter whether my warband was there or not?




All other motives aside, I think the base primative mentality at work here is the human desire to progress or evolve themselves into something greater. Someone of reknown has won a tournament with a warband, that by its very exclusion, is implied to be revolutionary or evolutionary. Indeed, if there weren't any "NOST" involved, why go through the hooplah we are going through now?

Our natural human curiosity has been aroused. This has lured several of the more cerebral personalities into posting their opinions on a subject that may have been passed over normally if someone who wasnt as adept as doubtofbuddah were involved. When someone in a position of reknown does something, like choosing not to disclose the warband they just won a tournement with, it causes the people that they interact with to have the desire to analyze and scruitinize that warband to further advance their own knowledge and preperation.

Its like telling someone not to look behind the curtain because something you dont want them to see is behind it. They may not have known anything was behind there to begin with but now that they have been told not to look, the desire to look is overwhelming.

The implications of this action have to be considered (and woried about) as the person performing said action isnt just some blowhard touting their latest and greatest acomplishment...all day (sorry everyone [:D]). Its a person with a strong national performance and whos opinion holds weight with the community.

So, in the end, doubtofbuddah, You should feel flattered that everyone is applying pressure to you. Everyone wants to know what youre up to because they respect what you are capable of and know that its top of the line.

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04/25/2006 9:02 AM  
I thought "GAZE ALL DAY" had been exposed already? Jesse what are you really hiding?

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04/25/2006 10:15 AM  
My issue wasn't DoB wanting to keep his warband secret, or the original poster participating in the secrecy. It was a few posts later when he posted other competitors warbands. Even though they didn't make a big hubabalo about keeping their warband secret it seems inconsistant for him to reveal others warbands when he doesn't want the same done, expressed desire or not.

His post later where he says then he will stop posting toruney reports and warbands is IMHO a much more consistant, defensable, and respectable position. What is good for the goose should be good for the gander, and if he expects confidentiality in his warband he should extend the same courtosy to other players reguardless of skill level.

Now had he not chimed in with the missing warbands except his own I would have not been offended. Perhaps annoyed, but people are entitled to be annoying on message boards.

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04/25/2006 1:06 PM  
Shemnon, from what I've gathered in playing this game for a long time, is that if you want your warband to be a secret, you need to tell everyone who you reveal it to that it's a secret. Doubtofbuddha did that. No one else there wanted their band to be a secret, therefore it's fine for anyone to reveal the warband online.

Also, the making of doubtofbuddha's warband was a collaborative effort online with someone else. He never said it was *his* secret alone. If it were just him, who knows? He might be more generous with the information.

Obviously the only real question here is whether or not it's okay to mention that there's information that, well, won't be mentioned. Most of us have a favorite warband for the qualifiers coming up. We're not going to advertise what that band is, certainly.

My opinion is that it's totally fine to make detailed comments on a tournament in which your own band is a secret.

- Dagni


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lalato
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04/25/2006 4:00 PM  
Hey gang... considering I was the only person that beat Jesse's warband at the tournament, shouldn't you be hounding me on strategies against NOST 2 instead of focusing on whether or not you know the exact makeup of the band? [:p] [)]

--sam

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doubtofbuddha
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04/25/2006 4:06 PM  
Luck, trickery, and slow play says I! [)]

I am not gone.

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04/25/2006 5:18 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by lalato

Hey gang... considering I was the only person that beat Jesse's warband at the tournament, shouldn't you be hounding me on strategies against NOST 2 instead of focusing on whether or not you know the exact makeup of the band? [:p] [)]

--sam



No Sam - nobody cares about you - it's all about Jesse - Duh!

No No Wait! SAM how did you do it??

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lalato
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04/25/2006 5:30 PM  
Basically, I outmaneuvered him which is much harder than I'm making it sound right now. Ryld made it so I won initiative more often than not so I generally could count on being able to do hit and run tactics.

In the second match... I made a fatal error with my fodder and losing the activation advantage really hurt my ability to do hit and run and got me down on points.

And that's all the hints I'll be giving out today. [)]

--sam

I'm in Urbana, IL

nedleeds
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04/25/2006 9:08 PM  
I don't care about the warband ... the irony of it all is driving from Orlando to Atlanta to win a plane ticket :)

My dual-Khumat tech will be waiting for whatever comes up from Florida.

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robbdaman
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04/25/2006 9:35 PM  
Khumats are not immune to the Gaze.

R~

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04/26/2006 10:43 AM  
quote:
Originally posted by nedleeds

I don't care about the warband ... the irony of it all is driving from Orlando to Atlanta to win a plane ticket :)

My dual-Khumat tech will be waiting for whatever comes up from Florida.



Eh, the plane ticket is just to make the drive worth my while. I am mainly going up there to compete in a large tournament, and hopefully get the ticket there, so that more Florida people can go to the Championship.

I am not gone.
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Forums > Dungeons & Dragons Miniatures > D&D Minis - Tournaments > Chrome Dragon Art 4/23/06 Tournament Report



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