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Originally posted by johnny.quest

It would probably open a huge can of worms to do so, but I'd like to see Dave's son get an invite to the championship in response to this judging catastrophe.

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Originally posted by Corim Danex

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Originally posted by johnny.quest

It would probably open a huge can of worms to do so, but I'd like to see Dave's son get an invite to the championship in response to this judging catastrophe.

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And the other person who qualified by beating him through cheating should be disqualified.

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Originally posted by dj-chuckles

I seen the illegeal move and commented that it couldn't happen. It fell on deaf ears. Charging in a mithral mine.
I'm sorry I probably will get suspended for this but that player was a complete overall jerk and very unsportsman like. So were some of the people he showed up with. I could not believe his attitude towards the people he played and the fact he tried to cheat with the same rules more than once. I am flagging this person in an appeal to DCI.

EDIT: I suggest your son do the same.

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Originally posted by robbdaman

I say we hunt him down and burn him at the stake! [}:)]

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I am sorry you feel your son got the short end of the stick. I had a judge rule on everything to make sure it was fair. I did everything by the book and the judge agreed. I cannot do more.

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Originally posted by Vrecknidj

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Originally posted by robbdaman

I say we hunt him down and burn him at the stake! [}:)]

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Um, well, er, perhaps I agree that the player seemed shady--I've tried not to focus as much on him as the judging though. And I feel bad for the judge himself, I'm sure he didn't want to be in the situation he was in. Ultimately, I see the failure as a crack in the foundation of the DCI/Wizards judging system.

Dave

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Bodyguard (If an adjacent creature in your warband would take damage from an attack, this creature can take the damage instead);

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Attack: (Creature Statistic) A number representing a creature’s ability to hit with an attack in
combat. There are two types of Attack numbers: Melee Attack and Ranged Attack. Many
bonuses and penalties conferred by spells and special abilities affect a creature’s Attack
number. If no attack form is specified, the effect applies to both melee and ranged attacks.
A few special abilities, such as Gaze Attack, use the word “Attack” in their names, but they
still follow the rules for special abilities rather than the rules for attacks.
attack/attack roll: An attempt to damage an enemy with a melee attack or a ranged attack.
See page 11.

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In the WoTC tournament system, WoTC is not YET responsible for sending a judge to the event. Key word being "yet." The T.O.'s often make money off these events (not much, but some) and they certainly get to cram between an extra 20 and 60 people into their store. WoTC has made it very clear to them that they need to be responsible for providing a competent, impartial judge for the event. When the sport grows a little more, I'd expect that WoTC might pony up the cash (or compensation) to support their judges at the event.

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Originally posted by PatEllis15


*SNIP*
WotC could then require that T.O. use a WotC certified judge for MAJOR events. I don't think we are yet at the point where a local sanctioned event HAS to have the same.

I hope this all ends well....

Pat E

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Originally posted by Dapuma

Ok...this thread is garbage, but i will make one reply here just because i feel it is necessary.

I am the supposed evil vile person that beat vrnkei and his son, and his friend playing his same army. I can appreciate the fact that you want to defend your son, that makes you a good father.

Fundin Strongarm: When we played, you tried a "trick" with your ranged melee hide with the Sneak to kill my Kord. He did not get extra damage for being outside range 6 and being hidden, but you said he did. I did not call you a cheat. I just figured you didnt know the rule and that you thought it worked differently. We got a ruling and the game went on. I assumed you made a mistake, not that you intentionally tried to cheat me. That is why there are judges, to make sure disagreements are settled. There are a lot of confusing rules in a miniature game. Not knowing every single idiosyncrasy doesnt make someone a bad person.

Vrenki: None of my games other than yours actually went to time, so i dont like you insinuating that i intentionally played slow. Yes the first couple turns went slowly as i wanted to make sure i positioned correctly, there are alot of tricks to kings road and i didnt want to fall victim to them. Secondly the game was over on the last turn as i won on tile points if you recall correctly. Meaning as time expired you lost on VPs.

Also if i wanted to try to be "underhanded" or you could also refer to it as "gamesmanship" i could have stalled for one minute and that would have been time and there would have been no extra initiative. Heck i probably could have done that for the last two rounds if i wanted to win like that, i am quite sure you are aware of that. I hurried up my play to allow maximum rounds and let you get your swings in.

In regards to the last game, there was a judge there ruling on everything that was contested. Everything was overseen by a disinterested 3rd party.

I am sorry you feel your son got the short end of the stick. I had a judge rule on everything to make sure it was fair. I did everything by the book and the judge agreed. I cannot do more.

Dapuma

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Originally posted by True_Blue

Can you just hand your qualifying to someone else? I dont think thats legal by any means, so I dont see how that would be done. Especially since the Qualifier is already over, as in everything is finished. So you cant "drop out" and thus move everyone up. Also, I doubt someone can just hand over their spot to anyone they choose. I just dont see how this would be possible for his son to still be able to go, from that Qualifier.

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Originally posted by PatEllis15

Dave:

Refresh my memory: Was this one of the sites that was somewhat controvertial?

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This certainly plays against the theory that the big DCI stores should hold the Qualifiers. I've never heard of this type of argument at a store that holds events on a regular basis.

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Originally posted by Helzapoppn

Fun 4 All doesn't host DDM events all the time. They host Pre-Release/Release tournaments, and probably other DCI events.

And I don't think either the judge or the T.O. will be showing up here to defend their actions. A pity, as I do like the store and the people running it.

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Originally posted by Gunthar

I mean look around, everyone is trying to get an edge. Secret warbands, collusion, etc. has become the norm. When guys touted and touting themselves as "top players" are doing things that many consider "pushing the envelope" of fairness (in the minds of many others), ...

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Originally posted by Dagni

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Originally posted by Gunthar

I mean look around, everyone is trying to get an edge. Secret warbands, collusion, etc. has become the norm. When guys touted and touting themselves as "top players" are doing things that many consider "pushing the envelope" of fairness (in the minds of many others), ...

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In my opinion, the above is, how do you say, hitting below the belt. It's just not an appropriate statement for this topic, seems to me.

One: of course there's nothing wrong with keeping quiet about your warband. The way you put it, whether intentionally or not, basically insinuates that it's somehow comparable to, or on the level of, collusion or cheating.

Two: I would guess that the collusion and "pushing the envelope" you're talking about is directly referring to the SoCal group in particular. I could be wrong. Whoever or whatever you ARE referring to, that's SO another topic, and you're throwing allegations out there without even naming the allegations and allowing the other party to defend themselves!!

The SoCal crew, to my knowledge, hasn't done anything that could remotely be considered collusion.

Again, if you and "many others" think that some people are doing things that are "pushing the envelope" of fairness, do those people the courtesy of saying so directly, not submerged in a rant in a seperate (though related) topic.

Thank you.

- Dagni

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Originally posted by Dagni

@Vrecknidj: I don't know if you think that the player did, in fact, cheat. From a couple comments of yours, I don't think you are accusing him of anything intentionally untoward. However, if you don't think that he intentionally cheated, you ought to edit out - and perhaps even post a short retraction, for those who won't reread the first post in this long thread - the phrase "his 7th opponent cheated".

Winning on an illegal move is not, in and of itself, in fact, cheating, and shouldn't be called such (in my opinion).

- Dagni

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Originally posted by Dagni

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Originally posted by Gunthar

I mean look around, everyone is trying to get an edge. Secret warbands, collusion, etc. has become the norm. When guys touted and touting themselves as "top players" are doing things that many consider "pushing the envelope" of fairness (in the minds of many others), ...

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In my opinion, the above is, how do you say, hitting below the belt. It's just not an appropriate statement for this topic, seems to me.

One: of course there's nothing wrong with keeping quiet about your warband. The way you put it, whether intentionally or not, basically insinuates that it's somehow comparable to, or on the level of, collusion or cheating.

Two: I would guess that the collusion and "pushing the envelope" you're talking about is directly referring to the SoCal group in particular. I could be wrong. Whoever or whatever you ARE referring to, that's SO another topic, and you're throwing allegations out there without even naming the allegations and allowing the other party to defend themselves!!

The SoCal crew, to my knowledge, hasn't done anything that could remotely be considered collusion.

Again, if you and "many others" think that some people are doing things that are "pushing the envelope" of fairness, do those people the courtesy of saying so directly, not submerged in a rant in a seperate (though related) topic.

Thank you.

- Dagni

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Originally posted by Gunthar

Sorry to hijack the thread Dave, this is just an issue I've worried about for a while and this was a chance to bring it up.

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Originally posted by Shivan Darkeyes
Another questionable ruling that I saw that showed how insecure the judge was, was at the end of round 3. A player had only a Balor left to move with 2 minutes left in the round. He declared an attack on an Orc Champ or some other piece that is pretty inconsequential. Then he proceeded to sit and wait to roll the die on the first attack.

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Originally posted by PatEllis15

They are going to have a judges test for Dreamblade... I can't understand why they haven't had one for DDM. Anyone can and should be able to be the judge for a local sanctioned game, but a qualifier should have QUALIFIED judges...

Pat E

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Originally posted by Dagni



Winning on an illegal move is not, in and of itself, in fact, cheating, and shouldn't be called such (in my opinion).

- Dagni

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Originally posted by Gunthar
That said, remember, there were a number of people upset when, for example, Jesse didn't report (or let be reported) which warband he played in a tournament a couple of weeks ago. Yet many supposedly top players from around the country work together on warband construction, it can look like collusion or a clique to make sure they stay on top and keep others "down".

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Originally posted by striderlotr

Now I was not there so I will not comment on the event that happened or the players, but I will comment on the situation. It sounds to me that the location needs to use the DCI reporting software to help with some issues. If they had been then the top ranked players would have been playing near each otehr as well (and not in seperate rooms???).

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Also, playing an event in one room might have helped (if I read the above correctly), as the judge is not leaving to go to other rooms during the event.

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