NightMoor
Sergeant
448 Posts
    
 | | 08/05/2005 3:26 PM |
| | recovered topic 6990 | |
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NightMoor
Sergeant
448 Posts
| | 08/05/2005 3:26 PM |
| Awesome - the Tigers are on the prowl ;-).
Unfortunate that it costs so many points to field, but I must admit the stats are impressive in that it's a heavily armored tank like the Crocodile that is faster and far deadlier at ranges of 4-10 squares. The Overrun is a bit of an "icing on the cake" ability rather than a full-blooded bonus, since you generally don't want a ranged shooter like the Tiger cozying up to enemy grunts anyways.
Regardless, impressive stuff. I can't wait for this game! | |
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kaiserluger
Warrior
319 Posts
| | 08/05/2005 3:46 PM |
| | Long range and tough front armor make this an intriguing mini. | |
Kaiserluger - | |
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Retired Tank
Vulturedoodle
Sergeant
791 Posts
| | 08/05/2005 3:49 PM |
| At first blush, the Overrun ability looks like it may need some clarification. There's no "immediately" in the text; when does it happen? Can you declare a Soldier unit disrupted the moment you enter the hex? Does it merely add a disrupted marker, which takes effect at the end of the phase, or does it take effect before defensive fire?
I wonder about the rationale behind this ability? Is it supposed to represent "Tiger Terror"? Or the anti-personnel mines on the hull designed to keep enemy infantry at bay?
Regards,
Steve F. | |
Vaughan: You seem like a thinker. You seem to always be deep in thought. So what are you thinking right now?
Karl: I'm thinking I could use some more o' that potted meat, if you got any extry.
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Slapdragon
Warrior
268 Posts
| | 08/05/2005 4:29 PM |
| All tanks were capable of overrun in WW2 with varying degrees of success. The British Matilda, when first fielded in 1940, over ran more than a dozen infantry platoons before being stopped, and nearly broke open the German front. A set of US Stuarts overran French in Oran. A US tank captured by the Germans was also used to overrun Americans at Kasserine. The Tiger is most famous perhaps for it from Kasserine, where it was used to literally crush infantry in their foxhole, but it did not hold an exclusive on the tactic.
By the end of the war, even the Tiger would not try to overrun (which is technically a "close assault"). The ability of tanks to literally jam up infantry by their bulks had been eliminated first by the Russian training and use of hand mines, and then by the introduction of the US Bazooka and the German Panzerchreck and Panzerfaust. While a Tiger's frontal armor was immune from the Bazooka, its tracks were vulnerable, and it was possible to penetrate a tiger from unusual angles. In addition, the standard US anti-tank grenade was capable, with some luck, of hitting the weak spots on the top of the Tiger.
As a rule of thumb, overruns work when a tank attacks infantry without anti-tank capacity, and when those infantry have low morale or poor training. A US Marines manual on antitank warfare said, "Killing tanks is fun and easy" which is probably a bit of wishful thinking, but no tank could survive close assault without lots of infantry support against a dedicated attacker with high morale and proper training. (The reason is simple, destroy the treads and then you can plink at the disabled tank all day long.) | |
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt. | |
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Retired Tank
Vulturedoodle
Sergeant
791 Posts
| | 08/05/2005 4:54 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Slapdragon
All tanks were capable of overrun....
Right. But you didn't address the question about Overrun (the special ability of the Tiger). In other words, why does the Tiger get it, but not *all* tanks? Is the special ability, I wonder, inspired by the quasi-legendary status of the tank, or is it more a representation of the AP mines on the hull? Or something else?
Regards,
Steve F. | |
Vaughan: You seem like a thinker. You seem to always be deep in thought. So what are you thinking right now?
Karl: I'm thinking I could use some more o' that potted meat, if you got any extry.
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Avatar of the Tank
Newtoncain
Commander
2985 Posts
Land of 10,000 taxes
| | 08/05/2005 8:44 PM |
| Ahhh, Finally what I've (and many others I suspect)been waiting for.[:D]
63pts sounds about right. 3 Shermans or 2 T-34's to 1 tiger.ΖD]
I can't wait to see these things in 2 weeks @ GenCon.[:p] | |
They just don't know what's good in life...Conan, tell them what is good in life.
To rip the boosters. To count the minis spilled out before you, and to hear the indifference of the women... | |
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XAos
Underboss
2395 Posts
London
| | 08/06/2005 7:24 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Vulturedoodle
At first blush, the Overrun ability looks like it may need some clarification. There's no "immediately" in the text; when does it happen? Can you declare a Soldier unit disrupted the moment you enter the hex? Does it merely add a disrupted marker, which takes effect at the end of the phase, or does it take effect before defensive fire?
My interpretation on overun, is that it's not an attack. So the rules for attacks don't apply. i.e. it does exactly what the wording says. "When the tiger moves in to the hex"
If you choose to defensive fire on the tiger in the hex it's moving from then the overun occurs afterwards. And hence won't occur if the defensive fire disrupts the tiger. If you choose to defensive fire on the hex the tiger moves into, you just made a big misstake. 'cause it disrupts you and you don't get the defensive shot.
A/H didn't use the word "immediate" because that could then be read as the overun preceeding defensive fire, even if the defensive fire targeted the hex the tiger was leaving. Which the current wording cannot be interpreted as.
Note; not being an attack also means the rules for stacking "hits" does not apply. i.e. if you overrun the same unit twice (Two Tigers[}:)]) you don't place a damaged marker for the 2nd overrun.
Tactics for the "aam-Tiger";
Ignore historical preconceptions about the Tiger being "An open country tank". The Tiger has a lot of its 63pts cost in that overrun ability. The way to use that is to get "up-close & personel" Deploy your Tiger in a town, put panzerfausts & MG-42's in the other town squares and overrun anything allied that tries to share the town with you. This is particularly effective if you get map:4 "Urban Conflict"
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Don't worry about the current metagame. It doesn't matter if it's ugly, bad, or the best ever. In 2 years time, set rotation will ban everything. | |
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striderlotr
Commander
3370 Posts
| | 08/08/2005 10:10 AM |
| | This is just getting better and better. I cannot wait for Gencon!!! | |
Sean Banks
Champion of Elementals
Official Organizer
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