forkedmoon
Underboss
1305 Posts
    
 | | 03/06/2006 11:42 PM |
| | Just wondering what the winning builds have been. I just played a tourney where I threw together my team (100 point) and was going to try and and have no tanks. I don't own too much so I quickly relaized I didn't have enough not to include some but still the swarms of machinegunners along with bazookas managed to take down a Tiger & Panzer combo. Is this the norm? | |
Champion of Cyclops
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Dr.Cornelius
Warrior
338 Posts
| | 03/07/2006 2:57 AM |
| | No. All-armor builds typically dominate tournament play at all levels: 100, 150, & 200-points. | |
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XAos
Underboss
2413 Posts
London
| | 03/07/2006 5:03 AM |
| The nearest I have come to an all infantry build is;
Pak-40
3xWehrmact Sniper
Wehrmacht Oberleutnant
3xPanzerfaust
2xSSPG
SIG-33
Pure infantry tends not to work, because with one exception. every infantry unit in the game (as of set-2) can be beaten by the appropriate AFV tactics.
AT-guns are easily destroyed by Humber-SC's using Strike & Fade.
Bazookas, Panzerfausts etc are range:4 & defense:4 so Humbers/Shermans can safely kill them at long range.
The Defense:5 infantry are all restricted to close assault. So unless you use a huge number of them (e.g. all 15 units) A tank swarm can kill a few. And then a Sherman Rhino can ignore the survivors.
The one infantry that causes tanks any tactical problems is the Wehrmacht Sniper. To kill that a tank has to move adjascent. And if the Sniper is protected by nearby panzerfausts etc, thats fairly dangerous for the tank. | | | |
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Narethkraag
Sergeant
848 Posts
| | 03/07/2006 12:40 PM |
| | I think balance is the keyword here, you need a combination of different weapons to get the best results. | |
my list:http://www.maxminis.com/hwlist.asp?user=narethkraag
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Definetely bad trader: Invictus | |
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striderlotr
Commander
3370 Posts
| | 03/07/2006 12:50 PM |
| I think that the balance is very important. As infantry can gain access to location that tanks need to make a roll to enter, they have a slight advantage, especially while holding an objective.
I tihkn that all tanks is not a great idea, just like all infantry. | |
Sean Banks
Champion of Elementals
Official Organizer
Gen Con 05 maxminis Event | Winterfantasy 06 maxminis Event | Gen Con 06 maxminis Event | Winterfantasy 07 Community Event | |
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Sean-Khan
Commander
2731 Posts
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monster_slayer
Warrior
331 Posts
| | 03/08/2006 11:35 AM |
| | Unless you are playing a scenario, I would make sure I had at least 1 tank, if not more. Maybe in the future this may change, but for now if you go in with all infantry, you are asking to get beat. | |
Life is like a dogsled team, unless you are the lead dog, the view never changes.
Champion of the Warforged Juggernaut
Champion of the Purple Worm (Vindicated!) | |
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forkedmoon
Underboss
1305 Posts
| | 03/08/2006 2:06 PM |
| To be honest I was only filling out the field to allow an event to be sanctioned. I had no intention of winning a game with my band let alone win the event. That is why I asked this question. I did have a semi-balanced band though since in order to get to 100 I added two shermans (42 points total). After the second round I had no shermans left. My bazookas took out my opponents panzer and the royal engineers eliminated the Tiger. My machine gunners eliminated his machine gunners which was his only infantry.
In my first match I had the luck of getting map 4 with a city objective. Definitely felt the advantage with troops in the town hexes. The second match was on map build 6 not as much to my advantage although I was able to use the marsh effectively. | |
Champion of Cyclops
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striderlotr
Commander
3370 Posts
| | 03/08/2006 2:34 PM |
| | I was not saying build with no tanks, just build a more balanced force using a mix or tanks and infantry. Add in planes soon for even more options. | |
Sean Banks
Champion of Elementals
Official Organizer
Gen Con 05 maxminis Event | Winterfantasy 06 maxminis Event | Gen Con 06 maxminis Event | Winterfantasy 07 Community Event | |
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XAos
Underboss
2413 Posts
London
| | 03/23/2006 6:49 AM |
| I don't see planes surviving against units like the Bofors 40mm.
That will kill any aircraft. And at 9pts it can be easily replace some of the filler in the standard sherman swarm.
Or the quad .50cal which will could 2 aircraft in the same turn.
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Dr.Cornelius
Warrior
338 Posts
| | 03/24/2006 3:35 AM |
| Back to the original topic of the discussion- are tanks necessary. In my local metagame tanks dominate mixed forces. Here's why:
With a few notable exceptions, most units are more effective against armor or infantry. By taking all of one type, a player effectively neutralizes the threat from a large segment of the opposing army.
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XAos
Underboss
2413 Posts
London
| | 03/24/2006 6:38 AM |
| Dr.C is correct. In WW.II the weapons favoured (even mandated) the use of combined arms tactics.
With aam units the exact reverse is true.
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Dr.Cornelius
Warrior
338 Posts
| | 03/25/2006 12:55 AM |
| Right. Its too bad that the rules & stats discourage combined arms. We had to resort to a house rule that an army cannot contain more than 70% armor or infantry.
A more satisfying solution might be to require that infantry hold the objective hex, not armor.
One of the biggest drivers of the problem is that there are a number of efficient tanks with 5+ rear armor: Crocodile, KV-1, Guards T-34/85, Tiger I and King Tiger to name a few. The problem is that these units (especially KV-1 + Cossack) are effectively immune to non-AT infantry. Against an infantry heavy army, all the armor player has to do is take out the opposing player's AT assets (Panzerfaust, AT Guns, Royal Engineer, etc) then move a high armor tank to the objective and win on points.
Our competitive games tend to be a battle of high armor tanks with a splash of elite infantry (SS-PG & teletroopers) and a +3 commander. At this point there is absolutely no reason to play basic infantry, and little point to even the elites. Given the 15 unit limit, I am not sure if I would field very many basic 3/3 def, 8/6/- infantry even if the cost was reduced from 3 all the way down to 1 point.
There is just too much efficient anti-infantry out there (Brummbar, KV+Cossack, etc and now Set III rains down even more artillery: Sherman 105, 82mm Russian mortar and all the new AA guns that are more cost effective against infantry than machine guns! And that does not even begin to cover the efficient tanks that are effective against both armor & infantry. At least the Germans finally get a couple of efficient dual-purpose tanks in the Elite Pz IVD and especially the Stug III.
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forkedmoon
Underboss
1305 Posts
| | 04/04/2006 4:29 PM |
| | As this discussion progressed were the bands being discussed still at the 100 point level. Does the mix change based on the point total being played? I still haven't seen any of the contested skies pieces and personally do not own anything other than base set pieces. The higher cost of AAM boosters compared to both SWM and DDM boosters has kept me from going fullthrottle into this game. | |
Champion of Cyclops
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Narethkraag
Sergeant
848 Posts
| | 04/04/2006 7:15 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by forkedmoon
As this discussion progressed were the bands being discussed still at the 100 point level. Does the mix change based on the point total being played? I still haven't seen any of the contested skies pieces and personally do not own anything other than base set pieces. The higher cost of AAM boosters compared to both SWM and DDM boosters has kept me from going fullthrottle into this game.
My experience is that the higher the points you play, the best chances you have to get a very well balanced army with artillery, infantry, tanks and airplanes...
We played a 350 point game last week and we were able to field lots of different weapons, quite interesting...... | |
my list:http://www.maxminis.com/hwlist.asp?user=narethkraag
completed trades: Capnfrank, Sturmkraehe, Jeff Wilder (x5), Mrfurious, Shinobi, Hockeyfan, Kyrin x2, Scepter, Archimagus, Enginer230, The Last Huzzah, War golem, RedSkullz
Definetely bad trader: Invictus | |
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forkedmoon
Underboss
1305 Posts
| | 04/06/2006 1:23 PM |
| | What type of turns, objective etc. do you use when you stepped up to 350 points? | |
Champion of Cyclops
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