prchamb
Warrior
216 Posts
    
 | | 03/13/2006 11:52 PM |
| GamingReport.com has an article on the new prepainted miniatures game from WotC. The minis are a different scale than DDM/SWM as are the rules - there are no stat cards, the starter sets come with 9 dice, players summon creatures, and it plays like a complex version of chess.
Tournament support will start strong with a $20,000 launch tournament at GenCon and a $50,000 championship tournament at GenCon 2007 plus local tournament support (as a SWM player, that part was painful to read...). | |
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lynchpt
Sergeant
922 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 12:08 AM |
| Everything about the announcement makes it seem like such a bad idea that I thought it must be a hoax, but it looks genuine.
I'll try the game (with the free stuff I get as a delegate), but I must admit that I'll feel slightly betrayed if they start having prizes like the following for the new game:
"Cash prizes will be offered at Dream Series events comprised of 80 1K Tournaments ($1,000) and four 10K tournaments ($10,000). The schedule grows in 2007, leading up to the $50,000 DREAMBLADE Championship Tournament at GenCon Indy."
That would contrast rather unfavorably with the minimal prize support given to DDM, which started (and perhaps still helps support) their lines of minis. Where's the love for the granddaddy of them all?
Pat Lynch | |
Dreamblade Rules Advisor | |
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zdrake
Warrior
278 Posts
Albany, CA (near Berkeley)
| | 03/14/2006 12:29 AM |
| I agree. I wish they would put that kind of marketing oomph behind DDM (or even behind D&D!). I remember once asking why I couldn't get a case of minis a day early if the store already had them. Someone replied that it would interfere with WotC's launch marketing. And I thought to myself "what marketing?"
I hope the resources allocated to DDM don't get sucked into the new, high -profile project. But I wouldn't be surprised if that happened. Maybe that's where the missing paint steps from Wardrums went... | |
Champion of Acererak the Demi-Lich (w/ Epic Card)
D&D minis gathering in Berkeley, CA at Games of Berkeley (every other Tuesday, and sometimes every Tuesday.) | |
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Ackrus
Warrior
282 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 2:10 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by lynchpt
Everything about the announcement makes it seem like such a bad idea that I thought it must be a hoax, but it looks genuine.
I'll try the game (with the free stuff I get as a delegate), but I must admit that I'll feel slightly betrayed if they start having prizes like the following for the new game:
"Cash prizes will be offered at Dream Series events comprised of 80 1K Tournaments ($1,000) and four 10K tournaments ($10,000). The schedule grows in 2007, leading up to the $50,000 DREAMBLADE Championship Tournament at GenCon Indy."
That would contrast rather unfavorably with the minimal prize support given to DDM, which started (and perhaps still helps support) their lines of minis. Where's the love for the granddaddy of them all?
Pat Lynch
Wow! DDM needs events and support like that. | |
Champion of Halaster Blackcloak
Rage!!!!!!!!!! | |
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Sammael
Underboss
1881 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 2:18 AM |
| | This is sad. WotC is now competing with itself, i.e. the Skirmish aspect of DDM. What's even more ironic is that they actually increased the Skirmish emphasis of DDM with War Drums. | |
Hypethetical Blood War Set List | Champion of the Gelugon | Vindicated Prophet of Blood War
Ha 69/80 | De 60/60 | Ar 57/60 | GoL 72/72 | Ab 60/60 | DK 60/60 | AF 60/60 | UD 59/60 | WD 57/60 | WDQ 3/60| BW
Total DDM Count: 1037 | No chance of finishing the set | Will finish the set | Set | |
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The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 2:31 AM |
| That is disheartening to say the least.
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Im out- find me on Hordelings if you want to chat. | |
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minatoman38
Underboss
1341 Posts
Minaniuonuma-shi, Japan
| | 03/14/2006 2:39 AM |
| http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dbm/welcome
That is the link to the WoTC info on the new game. If I wasn't already collecting DDM, have already tired of collecting SWM and frankly have no interest in a bunch wierd (most likely poorly painted) nightmare monster miniatures I'd be keen to collect.
I'd guess the marketing point of view is the DDM is associated with D&D and a lot of gamers might stay away from it because they don't dig roleplaying. The SW game brought in a lot of SW collectors who had no previous experience or interest in with RPGs. DDM did as well but probably not to the same extent.
I'd guess they think this game might do the same. Bring in horror or Sci-Fi fans who are not otherwise interested in RPG.
Probably a really really bad idea. | |
Robert Rosehart
Champion of the pixie
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The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 2:42 AM |
| Though hes probably about to be bombarded by similar questions, I emailed Ian to ask his take on the differential in prize support for an unproven game vs DDM. If they offered prize support like that for DDM I think we'd see even more people interested in tournament play.
It just seems odd to throw out cash like that to a new game, when DDM seems like it should be their flagship minis game. | |
Im out- find me on Hordelings if you want to chat. | |
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Sammael
Underboss
1881 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 2:59 AM |
| | BTW, how do we know that Dreamblade is different scale than DDM? If it's the same scale, I may be buying some Dreamblade minis to supplement my undead/Far Realm creature collection. | |
Hypethetical Blood War Set List | Champion of the Gelugon | Vindicated Prophet of Blood War
Ha 69/80 | De 60/60 | Ar 57/60 | GoL 72/72 | Ab 60/60 | DK 60/60 | AF 60/60 | UD 59/60 | WD 57/60 | WDQ 3/60| BW
Total DDM Count: 1037 | No chance of finishing the set | Will finish the set | Set | |
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Janos M.
Underboss
1015 Posts
Hamburg / GErmany
| | 03/14/2006 3:06 AM |
| AFter seeing it on Wizards, I think I'm addicted to another game...
hhhmmm ... Janus Corporation? | |
My Haves and wants:
http://www.maxminis.com/hw_list.asp?user=Janos_M.
Champion of Elan Psions
Proud Owner of the "Aura of cursed dice" | |
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The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 3:07 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Sammael
BTW, how do we know that Dreamblade is different scale than DDM? If it's the same scale, I may be buying some Dreamblade minis to supplement my undead/Far Realm creature collection.
It says in the Game report thing that it is 40mm, and specifically says alot of stores have complained its a different scale (so little cross over single sales) | |
Im out- find me on Hordelings if you want to chat. | |
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True_Blue
Underboss
2376 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 3:09 AM |
| | Like Heroclix, Star wars, etc for me..I dont want to shell out the money for another miniatures game. It'll be another thing I pass on. I just hope it doesnt take anything away from D&DM.. | |
Champion of a Knight of Takhisis/Knight of Neraka | |
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The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 3:10 AM |
| Interesting in one of the articles on the Wizards site it states:
quote:
This week we begin this series with our first look at Boneblade Serpent talking with Micheal Donais, R&D Game Designer.
So thats where he went! | |
Im out- find me on Hordelings if you want to chat. | |
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Fun Guy from Yuggoth
Cthulhufnord
Warlord
10564 Posts
Umass Amherst Baby!
| | 03/14/2006 3:13 AM |
| Ouch. If they had done Axis and Allies in a comparable scale to DDM I would have bought more than a single starter. As it stands 40mm isn't too bad, maybe a few of the critters can be used as large Cthuloid monsters. I'll likely get some of them through E-bay rather than buying a Starter and Boosters.
Interesting that both Wotc and Wiz Kids are both coming out with horror themed mini-games.
quote:
Originally posted by AesophDarkfable
quote:
Originally posted by Sammael
BTW, how do we know that Dreamblade is different scale than DDM? If it's the same scale, I may be buying some Dreamblade minis to supplement my undead/Far Realm creature collection.
It says in the Game report thing that it is 40mm, and specifically says alot of stores have complained its a different scale (so little cross over single sales)
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Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul,
ash nazg thrakatulûk, agh burzum-ishi krimpatul | |
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zenthrus
Commander
4601 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 03/14/2006 6:03 AM |
| From the Dreamblade Website:
quote:
The Dreamblade Booster Pack Contains:
* 7 randomized, prepainted, plastic miniatures.
* Each miniature has stats on its base for easier game play.
* Set checklist.
* Rules not included.
* For ages 13+
It's like reading an advertisement for Mage Knight [V]
On the bright side each booster has less minis than DDM [:D]
I certainly hope that this mess isn't the reason that War Drums had so many quality control problems. What a disappointment that would be.
After reading the rulebook and looking at the website I'm thoroughly unimpressed. Let's just hope this doesn't undercut DDM production.
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Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers
Knight of the Large Dire Chicken
Have/Want List
Trade References | |
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griffrat
Commander
3506 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 6:35 AM |
| | An upside that I see right off stems from Cthulhufnord's post. If there are larger humanoids then some more giants might be possible. But a lot of it depends on what the fig looks like. I think that I will keep an eye out for some singles when the first wave hits.... | |
Ambassador of FUN!!! | |
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Zeb
Underboss
2026 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 6:42 AM |
| | I hope this doesn't bury DDM in favor of cash prizes. Seems WotC is looking at the gaming industry like they do overseas, earning cash for playing games...in this case instead of video games, its tabletop. | |
Email Offers | Trade History
Champion of the Frost Giant Jarl
"Pray that you meet death standing on your feet, rather than on your knees." | |
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Fun Guy from Yuggoth
Cthulhufnord
Warlord
10564 Posts
Umass Amherst Baby!
| | 03/14/2006 7:06 AM |
| Hey as long as it has tentacles...[:D]
quote:
Originally posted by griffrat
An upside that I see right off stems from Cthulhufnord's post. If there are larger humanoids then some more giants might be possible. But a lot of it depends on what the fig looks like. I think that I will keep an eye out for some singles when the first wave hits....
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Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul,
ash nazg thrakatulûk, agh burzum-ishi krimpatul | |
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Avatar of the Tank
Newtoncain
Commander
2972 Posts
Land of 10,000 taxes
| | 03/14/2006 7:12 AM |
| | We'll you can always check it out at GenCon Indy. | |
They just don't know what's good in life...Conan, tell them what is good in life.
To rip the boosters. To count the minis spilled out before you, and to hear the indifference of the women... | |
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yack
Commander
3129 Posts
Ottawa, Canada
| | 03/14/2006 7:19 AM |
| Well I have mixed feelings about this.
1. hope this doesn't effect the dedication too the DDM minis later on down the line. I really bigtime rather have D&D monsters.
2. Like people said wish they were too scale as some of them could pose as the odd "freak monster"for D&D. Singles only wouldn't buy a booster for that. | |
Champion of the Peryton
Vindicated Champion : Pit Fiend, Devourer
ATG: Fog Giant
DW: Duergar Priest
RPG Only!!!! The Drumming Drunkn' DM | |
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bshugg
Underboss
1778 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 7:42 AM |
| Well my knee-jerk reaction is to say "I hate it!" because it impunes on my other mini game territory.
My second feeling is that its some weird MK 3.0, but then I did like Mage Knight a lot until it got all screwed up. Mike Donais is a talented designer so that carries a lot of weight for me. I will definatly check it out. That large of a competitive field really is intriguing.
I'm really saddened that its getting such large tournament support when some of us have really been working our butts off to get events going on our own since the beginning of DnD mini's. Where would DnD mini's be right now if they got that kind of support in the beginning? | |
Looking for someone to cosponser a midwest DDM event. let me know if your interested!
Check out my brand new blog:
http://bshugg.blogspot.com | |
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prchamb
Warrior
216 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 7:48 AM |
| I can understand why WotC is giving out big prizes for Dreamblade - they need something to make people try the game and get them hooked. With game play similar to chess and Novia Drapt and the difference in scale preventing cross selling to rpg people, it may be a difficult sell. The different scale makes me reluctant to try it as it looks unlikely to mix the minis with my current collections. I'm actually more interested in seeing FFG's Muntant Chronicles Collectible Miniatures with the hope the pieces will be the same size as DDM/SWM.
Of course, I'm also annoyed that tournaments for SWM are an afterthought, at best.
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Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 8:04 AM |
| I will check it out. If its interesting enough, and I am competitive in it I will probably play it, though only enough to see how well I do at the first for cash tournament. [)]
Edit: Gah its the same day as the DDM Championship. That makes it tougher...
Jesse | |
I am not gone. | |
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Nixlord
Underboss
2464 Posts
Quezon City, Philippines
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lynchpt
Sergeant
922 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 9:02 AM |
| I just read the rulebook, and the game looks interesting enough. The D&D theme is my favorite, though, so I can't see another game supplanting DDM for me. Like Brad, I am envious of the support this game gets out of the gate, and like Jesse, I will give the first few 1K tournaments near me a whirl to see if I am any good at the game [:)].
Speaking of skills transference, my take on the game is that it will reward the same kind of analytical thinking that does well in DDM, but that the game mechanics are sufficiently different (they seem quite different to me) that specific best practices from DDM will be generally irrelavent to the new game.
It is unfortunate that the big release tournament at GenCon is on Saturday, the DDM Championship day. Since the game is new to everyone, I would have expected that a fair amount of DDM players could have done well at this event. But it seems that Saturday is the "premier day" at GenCon, so it only makes sense that a high profile event would be scheduled then. If the release event happens late enough (like 1pm), perhaps some of us will already recognize the writing on the wall at the DDM event and be able to switch over.
Pat Lynch
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Dreamblade Rules Advisor | |
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striderlotr
Commander
3370 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 9:15 AM |
| Well I'm interested in seeing this... Not sure I'd buy any right now, but very interested. If this is the big release at Gen Con opposite the National event, I'll most likely play in it.
I'm also excited that the rulebook is online to check out. I'll be reading it soon. | |
Sean Banks
Champion of Elementals
Official Organizer
Gen Con 05 maxminis Event | Winterfantasy 06 maxminis Event | Gen Con 06 maxminis Event | Winterfantasy 07 Community Event | |
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Sharn Inquisitor
Underboss
1623 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 9:17 AM |
| | I must admit that reading that makes me feel somewhat betrayed in the support that line will be receiving. DDM gets a freakin' repaint and tile, or now...Epic card that that's it. | | | |
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striderlotr
Commander
3370 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 9:21 AM |
| | I was just looking through the rulebook and I came across some pictures. There seems to be an interesting blue dragon scupt in there as well as the cthulu-type monsters. | |
Sean Banks
Champion of Elementals
Official Organizer
Gen Con 05 maxminis Event | Winterfantasy 06 maxminis Event | Gen Con 06 maxminis Event | Winterfantasy 07 Community Event | |
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
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Sharn Inquisitor
Underboss
1623 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 9:27 AM |
| | In looking at the rulebook I downloaded, the figures/stats appear to be very similar to Mageknight. Maybe they designed this game b/c Mageknight is on it's way out, and WotC saw a niche' to exploit. Let's face it, some folks just don't want the stat cards, etc. If WotC can garner more market share, good for them. | | | |
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Fun Guy from Yuggoth
Cthulhufnord
Warlord
10564 Posts
Umass Amherst Baby!
| | 03/14/2006 9:29 AM |
| Oh dear the Unspeakable Freak looks ... unspeakable.
Checking the WK site, both games are due out in Augest. Is there some kind of big Con happening then? | |
Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul,
ash nazg thrakatulûk, agh burzum-ishi krimpatul | |
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striderlotr
Commander
3370 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 9:30 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by zenthrus
From the Dreamblade Website:
quote:
The Dreamblade Booster Pack Contains:
* 7 randomized, prepainted, plastic miniatures.
* Each miniature has stats on its base for easier game play.
* Set checklist.
* Rules not included.
* For ages 13+
It's like reading an advertisement for Mage Knight [V]
On the bright side each booster has less minis than DDM [:D]
I certainly hope that this mess isn't the reason that War Drums had so many quality control problems. What a disappointment that would be.
After reading the rulebook and looking at the website I'm thoroughly unimpressed. Let's just hope this doesn't undercut DDM production.
Very different from Mageknight... wow! Interesting and I'm not sure if I'll like it, but I'll give it a try at Gen Con. | |
Sean Banks
Champion of Elementals
Official Organizer
Gen Con 05 maxminis Event | Winterfantasy 06 maxminis Event | Gen Con 06 maxminis Event | Winterfantasy 07 Community Event | |
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PatEllis15
Commander
4458 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 9:36 AM |
| Hmmmmmmm........
Ian made it very clear at Winter Fantasy that there would be a big premier at GenCon. Pat: When you posted about the sea based Axis and Allies Mini's game, I thought I was then reading what Ian had referenced.
Now I see what Ian was REALLY talking about.
I'll echo the other sentiments about the prize support. I truly thought that as our community grows, that prize support would grow as well. There wasn't a Magic Pro Tour in the first 2 years M:tG. I didn't expect there to be one in DDM, perhaps ever! But I did expect prize support to grow as more people participated.
Last year, instead of growing the prize support, we saw that they doubled the number of qualifiers, and diluted about the same level of prize support to all those events.
In one month of this DreamBlade series, they will award more cash to the players than DDM has in the last 2 years.
I like WotC's Products... I want to be excited! But, I was drawn back into gaming more fully BECAUSE of DDM! This is clearly going to draw away from those who crave that competitive spirit that we currently have in DDM. 500 person tournament at GenCon, $20,000 prize? Would someone rather spend the day at the grinder, so that can hope to compete and take up a second day, or would they rather jump in and play for cash?
Wow....
Pat E | |
"Games evolve. Otherwise we'd still be pushing rocks around the dirt. What do you think the cavemen said when some dude showed up with sticks?" - Chairman7w | |
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lynchpt
Sergeant
922 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 9:37 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Sharn Inquisitor
In looking at the rulebook I downloaded, the figures/stats appear to be very similar to Mageknight. Maybe they designed this game b/c Mageknight is on it's way out, and WotC saw a niche' to exploit. Let's face it, some folks just don't want the stat cards, etc. If WotC can garner more market share, good for them.
I think you are right, everything about the new game seems calculated to appeal to an audience different than the market for DDM. There are a lot of people who have had ample chance to start playing DDM and have chosen not to do so. Perhaps this different approach will get them into miniatures games for the first time. A larger mini games market in general could be a boon to the DDM community.
To ChristopherGroves' last point about avoiding negativity: I support WotC's right as a company to undertake any ventures they want and distribute prize money however they want. DDM is owed nothing. I hope the Dreamblade is a big hit for WotC. The only thing rankling me a bit is the envy over the launch and prize support the new product is getting. I'll get over that, no doubt. I would be very appreciative if Ian or someone else could comment on the reason for the disparity in the prize support.
Pat Lynch | |
Dreamblade Rules Advisor | |
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PatEllis15
Commander
4458 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 9:44 AM |
| Ah! I just started browsing the Rulebook:
Game Design: Jonathan Tweet (lead), Rob Heinsoo
Both Rob and Mike are on this bad boy... So THAT'S where he went!
It's interesting that this comes out the day after Ian invited us to E-mail he and Shoe with our questions.... I can't imagine what their inbox is going to look like now!
Pat E | |
"Games evolve. Otherwise we'd still be pushing rocks around the dirt. What do you think the cavemen said when some dude showed up with sticks?" - Chairman7w | |
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
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alepulp
Underboss
1527 Posts
Manchester, England
| | 03/14/2006 9:54 AM |
| | Well - let's see if it get to Europe with such a substantial support. Unlikely I think. | |
One of these days WoTC will update their tournament page when I'm in the top 5... they never seem to do when I'm in that bracket :(
My Collection My DDM Website And My Trade Refs Be a part of the UK DDM Forum
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Sulaco
Underboss
1605 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 9:55 AM |
| A new minis game where you don't have to futz about with stat cards, which fewer and simpler rules, and where you can win thousands of dollars?
Bye bye, D&D miniatures. [:(] | |
Champion of the Gelatinous Cube. Nemesis of Gnomes and Dinosaurs.
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. ~ Terry Pratchett | |
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PatEllis15
Commander
4458 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 10:03 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ChristopherGroves
Just remember that
1) Shoe has no involvement really with this new game
2) Ian may not be able to answer for WOTC's strategy any more than we could surmise ourselves
I've already PM'd Rob / Mike. I'm going to wait and see what they say.
Of course, and I won't be pestering anyone for the matter (though I'll probably pepper the Delegate list...). The reality is though that for some people, there will be a reaction, and likely it won't be a positive one, that will get directed toward Ian and Shoe, because both welcomed questions from these boards.
Remember to be civil people!
Pat E | |
"Games evolve. Otherwise we'd still be pushing rocks around the dirt. What do you think the cavemen said when some dude showed up with sticks?" - Chairman7w | |
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Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 10:04 AM |
| I love DDM about as much as anyone does, but I am already considering jumping ship for Dreamblade. If it comes to the Championship vs. the Dreamblade release starting at the same time at Gen Con I will almost certainly go with the Championship. If there is a tiered starting time as Pat noted, then its going to be very, very tough for me not to go and check it out.
As it is, I am probably going to be spending the off-season investigating Dreamblade to see if a) I am good at it and b) if it is fun. If both are true then it is likely that I (and probably other skirmish players) are probably going to drop DDM in favor of this. When the choice is between potentially winning the chance to design a miniature and the chance to win $50k, well I think the choice is obvious... Granted there will be much greater competition for the 50 grand then there is for the DDM Championship, but the price is probably worth it.
So I don't see this as being good for DDM at all. | |
I am not gone. | |
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