johnny.quest
Underboss
1340 Posts
    
 | | 03/14/2006 3:36 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by lynchpt
It seems to me that the emotional impact some of us felt upon this announcement (at least this is how I felt) comes not from losing anything concrete; we have not, and for reasons I go into above, probably will not suffer much diminution in support for our favorite product. Rather, we are finally facing the stark fact that our game, which we think worthy of "hitting the big time", will not be the smash hit it deserves to be. We will have to be content backing a game that will plug along as merely a solid success. There are worse fates. But I'll admit, it makes me feel like the laborers from the parable hired early to labor in the hot sun watch those hired later in the afternoon receive the same (or in this case, greater) daily wage[:)].
Well said, Pat. That's exactly how I feel. I had actually believed that the game could hit the big time. That's part of what has driven me to get tournaments started in my area. | |
JQ's D&D Miniatures News: Get the skinny on all things mini. | |
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TheDarkKnight
Sneak
118 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 3:46 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Fenris
johnny.quest, some people think that "redistribution = cutting back"
What really happened was that the '04 round of qualifiers was top-heavy: there were few qualifiers, but the winner of each got an all-expense paid trip to GenCon. In '05, the same amount of money was redistributed such that there were more qualifiers with smaller prizes. That's not cutting back, but those with an axe to grind like to pretend it is.
I would have to disagree with the idea that there was the same amount of money/prize support and the difference felt was redistribution. When you compare a $250 prize with a prize that might potentially work out to around $1200 or more, the numbers just don't add up. There would have had to of been at least 4 times as many qualifiers in 05 than 04. I don't know the exact numbers, but they were in no way that high. In fact, I don't think there were even twice as many. My point is this, WotC has cut back on prize support a bunch. I would like to know why? Any takers? | |
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 3:53 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Tactician
Now my question is: Is it fair that a new game gets a 10,000 (?) dollar award?
What does "fair" have to do with anything?
This new game has a different business model than DDM - it must. To drive sales and interest they need to pursue a different direction than they have with DDM (or SWM or AAM).
I think the relationship being drawn is that since the overall company is the same, the entire strategy and plan for the product line should be somehow the same ... and this simply isn't the case. If they were to market and push this new game as they do DDM it would fail ... we all recognize that, correct? It is a new brand, completely its own, etc.
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Balduran I
Sergeant
404 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 3:53 PM |
| Everyone should take an hour and actually read the Dreamblade rules.
Dreamblade is not a minatures game in any meaningful sense of the word. It is designed, from the ground up, for tournament play. It’s Chess with Dice.
Play wise it’ll be much closer to Magic than DDM. It’s all about combos and effects, not fire and movement.
As such it won’t directly compete with DDM game play wise.
If you haven’t left DDM to go play magic or Vs. for the money, why would you for this game? Because there are little plastic figs in it?
An answer may be “Because it’s a great game.” Fair enough. Every game that comes out competes with every other game for our time and dollars. But it’s NOT the same type of game, by any stretch of the imagination, that DDM Skirmish is. So the panic that it’ll gut the player base based on that is, IMO, misguided.
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
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The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 3:58 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ChristopherGroves
Right ... a 5x5 grid map ... that's all. A close parallel is Anachronism which plays on a 4x4 map.
Point of note, Anachronism gave away a car at their first championship.
What kind of prize support does it get now? Thats an interesting parallel. | |
Im out- find me on Hordelings if you want to chat. | |
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Balduran I
Sergeant
404 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 4:03 PM |
| Yeah, or Anachronism.
I'm frankly surprised at the doom-n-gloom comments from so many Big Guns. Not used to them speaking out without a good base of knowledge, and from what's been said it doesn't seem like they know much about Dreamblade besides "OMG! Prepainted Fanatasy Miniatures!"
Really, read the rules. They're all available for download. The game looks like it could be cool. But it's nothing like DDM. | |
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Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 4:06 PM |
| Of course there is gloom and doom! The sky is falling! [)]
I have calmed down a little bit from earlier though I am still rather worried about the effect this is going to have on the DDM tournament scene as a whole. Numbers are shaky enough as it is... | |
I am not gone. | |
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alepulp
Underboss
1528 Posts
Manchester, England
| | 03/14/2006 4:09 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by doubtofbuddha
Of course there is gloom and doom! The sky is falling! [)]
I have calmed down a little bit from earlier though I am still rather worried about the effect this is going to have on the DDM tournament scene as a whole. Numbers are shaky enough as it is...
I'm with you on that DoB - me too. | |
One of these days WoTC will update their tournament page when I'm in the top 5... they never seem to do when I'm in that bracket :(
My Collection My DDM Website And My Trade Refs Be a part of the UK DDM Forum
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robbdaman
Underboss
2380 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 4:12 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Balduran I
Yeah, or Anachronism.
I'm frankly surprised at the doom-n-gloom comments from so many Big Guns. Not used to them speaking out without a good base of knowledge, and from what's been said it doesn't seem like they know much about Dreamblade besides "OMG! Prepainted Fanatasy Miniatures!"
Really, read the rules. They're all available for download. The game looks like it could be cool. But it's nothing like DDM.
Just because it's not like DDM gamewise doesn't mean it won't affect the overall DDM scene as a whole. I fail to see the worth in your argument, here or on the WotC board. If it takes away from DDM and the loyal DDM players as well as offers big prize money for an untested game over one that has a strong following it's bad. Despite whether or not it's anything like DDM or not. It's just that simple to me.
R~ | |
Champion of the Titan
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guacamole
Sneak
133 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 4:13 PM |
| Perhaps I'm the only ghoul around here, but I keep thinking... I hope alot of people get into that game so the secondary market for DDM cools off. I'd like to be able to get my hands on more of the earlier sets. Except that DB looks pretty cool too.
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Champion of the Froghemoth
Knight of Beholder-Kin
Squire of Low-Level uniques | |
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TheBlackFlail
Sneak
57 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 4:15 PM |
| The reasoning: WOTC wants more money (which is, after all the premise of a corporation, make money). They likely feel that DDM has reached either a steady plateau or growth rate, or at least that throwing more money at the system won't give big sales increases.
The Gamble: Compete with yourself: launch a new miniatures game targeted at a similar audience, but created new from the ground up. Seeing little chance of success with an untried system competing against the DDM juggernaut WOTC pumps a bucket o' prize support money into the system to jump start it (and likely has to keep pumping prize money into the system to sustain it).
The Jackpot: New system sales are great, and DDM sales continue un-abated for the natural life of the product (whatever that may be). More money in the bank.
The Crap Out: All of the top DDM skirmish players flee like rats from a sinking ship and jump on board the shiny new prize train ($50,000!!!!), deprived of the skirmish scene to balance out the whole house of cards (the RPG only crowd hates the "collectability," large sets, and other intrusions of the skirmish game, which help justify the things the RPG crowd hates) collapses, DDM sales tank and product life is drastically cut short. And the new system never makes a smash hit.
The Outrage: DDM players are outraged by the massive, up-front cash prize support when they struggled for years to build DDM skirmish with only meagre support. D&D RPGers feel that WOTC product development is being pulled from under them for the "next big thing," and quality is languishing. Massive damage to your customer loyalty is never a good thing.
Me: Count me among the outraged, I spent 8 months trying to help build up a skirmish scene in my area when Harbinger first came out (almost until GoL came out). Oh, and I'm not touching this new teratoma of game with a ten foot pole, there's only space in my life for so much gaming, and D&D is it, if that includes D&D minis, great, if not, well that's a $1000+ a year you won't be getting from me (and many like me). | |
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 4:21 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Balduran I
Yeah, or Anachronism.
I'm frankly surprised at the doom-n-gloom comments from so many Big Guns. Not used to them speaking out without a good base of knowledge, and from what's been said it doesn't seem like they know much about Dreamblade besides "OMG! Prepainted Fanatasy Miniatures!"
Really, read the rules. They're all available for download. The game looks like it could be cool. But it's nothing like DDM.
The rules are very different, sure. I've already read them.
I'm not sure that translates to "this game will draw from an entirely separate pool of players, despite being marketed as a competitive CMG with much better prize support."
96 figures in the first set to me says it will require a significant amount of money to collect/play. How many skirmish players can afford (or are willing) to buy twice as much or more product per year?
It seems to me that if this game succeeds, it can't help but pull from the DDM customer base. Some of those people who try it out will leave DDM. If the people who happen to switch are the movers and shakers of a local playing scene, that could go a long way to causing problems for DDM competitive play. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
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Balduran I
Sergeant
404 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 4:27 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by robbdaman
quote:
Originally posted by Balduran I
Yeah, or Anachronism.
I'm frankly surprised at the doom-n-gloom comments from so many Big Guns. Not used to them speaking out without a good base of knowledge, and from what's been said it doesn't seem like they know much about Dreamblade besides "OMG! Prepainted Fanatasy Miniatures!"
Really, read the rules. They're all available for download. The game looks like it could be cool. But it's nothing like DDM.
Just because it's not like DDM gamewise doesn't mean it won't affect the overall DDM scene as a whole. I fail to see the worth in your argument, here or on the WotC board. If it takes away from DDM and the loyal DDM players as well as offers big prize money for an untested game over one that has a strong following it's bad. Despite whether or not it's anything like DDM or not. It's just that simple to me.
R~
The money issue I'm not arguing about. I don't see it as an issue, frankly, but I'm not saying you shouldn't.
It's the notion that this game is somehow more of a threat to DDM than any other that comes out is what I take issue with. Or that somehow WotC coming out with a game is a "betrayal" of we who play DDM. Where are the "OMG! Hecatomb Will Kill DDM!" threads? Where are the "Magic is ripping off DDM!" threads?
The only reason this is getting the threads is "Prepainted Fantasy Minitures." That's flawed. The games just won't compete with each other, any more than ALL games compete with DDM. There being only 24 hours in a day and so much money in my bank account. | |
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Felagund
Sergeant
922 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 4:29 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by IanB
quote:
Originally posted by Balduran I
Yeah, or Anachronism.
I'm frankly surprised at the doom-n-gloom comments from so many Big Guns. Not used to them speaking out without a good base of knowledge, and from what's been said it doesn't seem like they know much about Dreamblade besides "OMG! Prepainted Fanatasy Miniatures!"
Really, read the rules. They're all available for download. The game looks like it could be cool. But it's nothing like DDM.
The rules are very different, sure. I've already read them.
I'm not sure that translates to "this game will draw from an entirely separate pool of players, despite being marketed as a competitive CMG with much better prize support."
96 figures in the first set to me says it will require a significant amount of money to collect/play. How many skirmish players can afford (or are willing) to buy twice as much or more product per year?
It seems to me that if this game succeeds, it can't help but pull from the DDM customer base. Some of those people who try it out will leave DDM. If the people who happen to switch are the movers and shakers of a local playing scene, that could go a long way to causing problems for DDM competitive play.
After reading the rulebook, I lost a lot of interest in it. The game is much more similar to M:TG than it is to DDM. If that's what I wanted, I'd already be playing Magic. While Dreamblade might draw some people out of DDM, I expect it will pull more from M:TG. I may try it out at GenCon, but I can't see myself getting into it seriously. Not while I've still got DDM and Anachronism available, anyway. | |
Champion of Gnomes | |
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Mindtrick
Warrior
233 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 4:48 PM |
| Guys, keep in mind that DDM had a market waiting for it to release. If the RPG crowd was not there and WotC really wanted to release DDM to high fanfare you would have seen better prize support from the start.
It's funny, if you want to blame someone for DDM not having "mega" prize support try blaming those who wanted the DDM minis for RPG! [:o)] They are the ones WotC KNEW would buy it, selling more product to the skirmish side was gravy to them I bet. OK, that was a joke, a bad one, but a joke none the less.
The SWTCG that WotC put out a few years back had much the same marketing plan and sales goals as DDM. They knew they had a ready-to-go fan base in Star Wars fans plus those who had played Decipher's SWCCG before it was canceled. The trick bit was they knew it might petter out since there was only going to be 2 more SW films released and after that they had no way of knowing how many players were going to stick around. As a result they had qualifiers with top prize being a free trip to GenCon, a Championship with a $10,000 prize pool for top 8 and about $200 worth of promos/product for top 30. They gave away a trip to Australia and Italy plus computers, Ps2/Xboxs and home theater systems in the 3 championships that were held. Event with that kind of marketing they still discontinued the game after a few short years.
Interest in games and collectables comes and goes. The trick for a manufacturer is to find middle ground and hope a concept takes off. DDM minis was nothing new. Miniatures for D&D have been around for 30 years, WotC just found a way to make them cheaper (plastic) and provide those without artistic talent (me) with a prepainted, out of the box mini to use in RPG. The value they added to DDM was they created a skirmish game around it that did not need such a glamorous marketing campaign to promote it. Again, the concept of a built-in market. They were banking on DDM & SWM being successful enough that they could create other minis type games like AAM and now Dreamblade and be know as the company to turn to when you want to scratch a mini itch.
Any way you look at it there will be room for each game in the market place. Will DDM grow at the same pace as it has so far? No, probably not, but it will still grow. New players will be drawn to it for the same reasons we were drawn to it before, be it for RPG, collecting, or skirmish. It is encouraging to note Ian's interest in finding out what this community wants to see in the form of prizes and such for the major DDM tournaments. It shows they are trying to pay attention to our wishes.
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devasque
Sergeant
874 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 4:53 PM |
| | Well... from the Dreamblade page they preview what 3 minis? Teaser images for 1 or 2 more? None of which makes me what to run out and preorder. Will I take a look at it when it's released? Sure. Depending on what they look like I might even pick up a few for rpg reasons. Too early to tell but I think news of this nature on the heels after Wardrums folks anger levels are not out of the red zone yet (my own included). | |
You see! There ARE others out there just like me. What? Why are laughing? | |
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3771 Posts
Adelaide
| | 03/14/2006 5:14 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by prchamb
Tournament support will start strong with a $20,000 launch tournament at GenCon and a $50,000 championship tournament at GenCon 2007 plus local tournament support (as a SWM player, that part was painful to read...).
Holy heck DDMman.
Yet they cant afford to replace defective maps
Thats a lot of cash. | |
"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: Sometimes the road less traveled is less traveled for a reason. ~ Seinfeld
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
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True_Blue
Underboss
2384 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 5:16 PM |
| | Well no one really knows for sure whether this will take off or not. I personally dont believe it will be big, but I'm assumign thats why they are offering the big cash support. It'd suck to see ppl transition from D&DM to this, because as ppl have said, we need all the players we can get. But then again there is SWM and AA, Heroclix, etc. So maybe there's room for another. I just hope the budget doesnt get cut anymore for D&DM so this one can receive more money heh..I dont think the paint jobs can take it :P. Sorry just had to say it heh. | |
Champion of a Knight of Takhisis/Knight of Neraka | |
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3771 Posts
Adelaide
| | 03/14/2006 5:23 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Sammael
Jesse's post above shows why pushing the Skirmish aspect of DDM this year instead of the RPG aspect was a mistake: Skirmishers will switch to a new game in a heartbeat. Not that I blame them - prize support for Dreamblade is most certainly worth it.
I maintain my opinion that most DDM purchases are made by role-players, and DDM should primarily cater to the role-playing crowd.
Except for liking the skirmish side a lot, I agree with you. | |
"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: Sometimes the road less traveled is less traveled for a reason. ~ Seinfeld
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
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Mindtrick
Warrior
233 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 5:30 PM |
| Um, Bert the Troll, if you couldn't get the replacement map from the release tournaments or from the upcoming months of retailer kits I am sure you could contact WotC and have them send you one.
If living in Australia makes it a problem for that to happen let me know, I have a bunch of maps left over from the WD release tourny. I would gladly send one to you to help you out. | |
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3771 Posts
Adelaide
| | 03/14/2006 5:38 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Mindtrick
Um, Bert the Troll, if you couldn't get the replacement map from the release tournaments or from the upcoming months of retailer kits I am sure you could contact WotC and have them send you one.
If living in Australia makes it a problem for that to happen let me know, I have a bunch of maps left over from the WD release tourny. I would gladly send one to you to help you out.
Thank you MindTrick. I will price postage and let you know.
FWIW Wizards customer support has been quite clear that there will be no replacement maps. When you can get them to admit there are replacements that is. | |
"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: Sometimes the road less traveled is less traveled for a reason. ~ Seinfeld
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
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Liquidburn
Sergeant
944 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 5:50 PM |
| | Wow, I just heard about this. It really feels like Wizards is screwing us over. Why are there not huge money tournaments for DDM? | |
Jason Slingerland
"Why do I have to be Mr. Pink?" | |
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frogrodeo
Sergeant
706 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 5:52 PM |
| I am going to withhold my judgement on this until I can see what the game is all about. My first opinion of the three minis on display is just so-so, but the rules look kind of interesting. Now, if I could just buy singles and get a "Tier 1" warband, and then win $1k or $20-50k just think of all the D&D minis I could buy! (True DDM Addict hahahahah)
However, even if I did check it out at a local tourney I won't be spending ANYWHERE near the amount of money I spend on DDM for figures I won't use anywhere else. Period. I have already made up my mind that I only collect DDM, and I do think we have a great local scene - if it goes away, hey thats ok, but at least I still have my figs for RPG. | |
Champion of Remorhaz, and the Mighty Goblin Frog Riders | |
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roonechr
Sergeant
604 Posts
Kansas City, MO
| | 03/14/2006 6:07 PM |
| I have no interest whatsoever in this new game.
I enjoy Skirmish and compete in the release tournaments but I buy DDM primarily for RPG.
This being the case, my primary concern would be that DreamBlade negatively impacts DDM for RPG. I agree with others that it seems unlikely that it will simply kill DDM. However, it has already taken away some of the people who were involved in DDM and if the quality issues from War Drums were the result of resources being put into DreamBlade then we can only expect more of the same moving forward. Hopefully that isn’t the case.
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Champion Of Hydras | |
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Gnolaum
Sergeant
854 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 6:18 PM |
| The critical comparision for the success of DreamBlade will be:
The (Money it brings in) - (the money that would have been spent on DDM).
For instance if I have $1000 a year to spend on gaming (I wish), and I happen to spend it all on DDM last year, this year if I spent $700 on DDM and $300 on Dreamblade, then Dreamblade has made nothing from me. In fact WoTC has put out all the time and effort to develop a new game to get no more money out of me (i.e. wasted).
I hope the bean counters at WotC are smart enough to take this into account... | |
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Use quick search to see scans of every stat card! | |
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jgsugden
Commander
4320 Posts
Walnut Creek, CA
| | 03/14/2006 6:23 PM |
| #1: We don't know what the buy in will be for the money tournaments. If it costs $50 to play and has 200 players, then $1,000 isn't much of a prize.
#2: Read the rules. I'm repeating the advice that others have given here, but the rules do shed a lot of light on what the game is, and what you can expect to see it do ... (it even has info on ~ 15 minis in the rules).
#3: DDM sales are driven by RPG utility, not skirmish utility. Look at the secondary sellers. Which figures sell for the most on Ebay - great RPG figures, or great skirmish figures? Although WotC is cannibalizing their market to a degree, I don't think ti will be too significant. | |
Champion of Meepo _*_ Myztek on the Wizards Boards. _*_ (2206 DDM on 03/06/06)
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Count Dooku
Commander
4636 Posts
New York
| | 03/14/2006 6:23 PM |
| Ok folks. Hear me out.
First of all some background. I purchase DDM because I play D&D and I have been wanting cheap pre-painted minis since lead minis that needed painting were invented. Now that they are here I love them and will collect them till they stop making them.
I dont skirmish...AT ALL. Its not just that I only use them for RPG. I never even flipped through the manual. I know nothing about it. I know every mini from every set..yet I have no clue what factions minis are from (other than using RPG referance). I couldnt tell you for the life of me which minis are commanders and which arent. I dont even know what commanders DO or what they are for.
For me...Dreamblade is nothing. I care about Dreamblade about as much as I care for any other collectible mini game. Dreamblade means about as much to me as "Creepy Freaks". :)
Yeah I might buy one or 2 as a singles and try to glue them to a DDM base as a craft project for a D&D game...But I probably wont even do that...I mean...I never did it with a Mage Knight mini so why with a Dreamblade?
So for an RPGer this new game has a 0% chance of luring DDM collectors over to the other side.
OK heres where Im gonna need your imput..since I may be saying what comes next out of ignorance.
If I was a skirmisher and Dreamblade was a better system I MIGHT think of defecting over to them....But them I'd look at the hundreds of DDM minis I own that I would be throwing away in a sence. I dont think Id do it.
OK now about this big prize money at the GenCon tournament or whatever.
What percentage of DDM owners/players/collectors really go to these cons to compete? 0.0001% ???
We here are Maxminis are full of people who go to these things..but the big picture is MUCH bigger. Most DDMers are kids who play at their FLGS or just play with their friends. They arent going to care (or even KNOW) about this big tourney that happened across the country that they couldnt go to even if they knew about it because their parent wouldnt take them or it was to expensive to fly there.
This big prize money thing is being used to lure GenCon goers over to the new mini line. Its going to work...But are the covention tourney people really a big chunk of the consumer base? I dont think it is at all.
DDM and SWM are doin pretty good for themselves because they are figures from D&D and Star Wars.
Dreamblade is made up creatures that no one knows what they even are.
Im not saying that weird stuff that has no original source to draw from wont be successful (look at MtG or YuGiOh)...But its chances are much lower.
And I once again repeat that this big $$$ tourny prize shouldnt have much if any effect on the future of the line.
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Champion of the Skulk
Vindicated Champion of the Twig Blight | |
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John05
Warrior
246 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 6:26 PM |
| Well, as many of you have said to calm fears, DDM isn't doomed. Of course not, WE all know Dreamblade is not a comparable miniatures game to DDM. "It's just Chess with dice!..." after all. We are too invested into DDM and know too much to switch for some fad... We all know the huge discrepancy in rules.
I'm just curious how this new flagship miniatures game will affect the growth of DDM. Would DDM have as many potential new players as it would have if DDM was still the frontman? We all know not everyone can be as wise as us maxminis folks... [)] | |
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True_Blue
Underboss
2384 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 6:29 PM |
| | Yea I really hope that they didnt take resources away from D&DM to do this brand. But who knows until it actually comes out and we can see. I'm sure most ppl will give it a try, but whether it'll stick or not will remain to be seen. | |
Champion of a Knight of Takhisis/Knight of Neraka | |
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robby
Sergeant
918 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 6:37 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by True_Blue
Yea I really hope that they didnt take resources away from D&DM to do this brand. But who knows until it actually comes out and we can see. I'm sure most ppl will give it a try, but whether it'll stick or not will remain to be seen.
No slight to Shoe meant in the least, but it appears that Mike and Rob were pulled (or volunteered - either way) to do DreamBlade. Wonder if that is where all the QA folks went, too. ;)
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To the list with you!
Email: robby.anderson@yahoo.com | H/W List | My Trade Interface | Reference Thread/Completed Trades
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griffrat
Commander
3506 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 6:41 PM |
| CD, great points. I too share the feeling as a guy that onl collects for the RPG side of life. I am sure that out of all the post that I have made here in this great site all but handful have come from posting in the skirmish forum.
Skirmish is a side of life I have no need for. A couple of reasons jump out at me. One, if I got into the skirmish side then a lot of the figs that I bank on trading away for RPG material would now become more valuable to me. Hence, increasing the difficulty in getting the figs for the RPG side of life. Two, another game system to learn. If I want an "army man" type game then I already have multitude of figs that I painted for that niche (and he d6s to match!!)
I too will take a look at the figs from Dreamblade, actually now that I am home I cruised by the WotC site took a look. I can see some of the creatures making the way to the table for an RPG session. The mouth thing made me thing of an advanced gibbering mouther as it is. So I am not against a new line, just moreover afraid of it.
Afraid/concerned that the amount of time effort and energy that is going into this game is going to be a deleterious event to the DDM line. I am just worried that the model (three prong appraoch) the good people (after reading the great things from Rav's tour I mean this) over at WotC have used has given way to something that is not as sure.
But I will look forward to the great anticipation. Because if as other people have eluded to DDM is a main thing for RPGers. Then perhaps this could be a good thing. In so much that if the skirmish game is waned or the creatures that are used for the set are more geared towards the RPG/collecting side then I am happy as a clam. Perhaps, nothing will change, but now that I got done with my tox mid term I am open to new ideas and new bottles....[:D] | |
Ambassador of FUN!!! | |
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Shining Knight
mdonais
Skirmisher
46 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 7:15 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ChristopherGroves
Just remember that
1) Shoe has no involvement really with this new game
2) Ian may not be able to answer for WOTC's strategy any more than we could surmise ourselves
I've already PM'd Rob / Mike. I'm going to wait and see what they say.
I figure I should post my response to your mail here so that everyone can benefit from it.
A bit of background first. Rob and I have worked a lot on the Design and Development of D&D miniatures and we feel that the game itself is in really good shape with the release of the new rulebook. The design of new miniatures is fairly straightforward due to hundreds of examples in the system. A new team is now working on the new sets and they have just as many people as the old teams had, so D&D minis is still getting just as much support as it always had. It is not declining. Sales are great and I expect them to continue about where they are now for a long time. Pokemon did not hurt magic sales, VS did not hurt magic sales. They existed in addition to magic and as the pokemon players left pokemon, they moved on to magic.
I think D&D minis has the friendliest community of any game I have been involved in. Everyone is relaxed and having fun at the events and playing in a D&D minis event is like seeing old friends. This is awesome. I don't know if this would have been the case if the game was giving away thousands of dollars. Certainly it wouldn't be all the same people playing.
As far as painting goes, I am not sure exactly how HFE works but Dreamblade wasn't being painted until after the most current D&D miniatures were done (the sets are 6-7 months apart). I know that Shoe is looking into the painting issues and I am sure that it will be fixed before the next set is released.
Ian made sure that the D&D Minis Championships don't overlap with the Dreamblade Championships so that you guys can play in both. I am very interested in what the DDM players think about the actual gameplay of Dreamblade. DDM has a competitive and matured audience now and I expect that the top 8 of the GenCon Dreamblade tournament to have several DDM players. The 20k is not first prize btw. It is spread out so that lots of people will end up with money. I think it goes down as far as top 64. In fact the whole point of the Dreamblade OP system is to spread out the money. Every month the 22 1k events will move around so that most people will have one nearbye fairly often.
For a lot of people DDM is the game for them. For others Dreamblade will be the game for them. They have very different OP and gameplay and are based on different themes. The game play for Dreamblade is awesome. It is the best minis game I have ever played and I encourage you all to play it a few times to get a feel for the strategy that goes on. I was going for straight forward rules so that the complexity can be in the strategy and the pieces themselves. Rob Heinsoo did an awesome job on the design and it does things that no miniature game ever published has done. Games go faster because you never count or measure line of sight. Each game is more varied because you start with different pieces in play and your units come into the game in different orders. It is hard to explain everything going on but I suspect that you guys will try it and see for yourselves. And I also suspect that you will be surprised at how much you like it.
We are talking about putting everything that you need to play up on the web as some kind of printable download. I know that a lot of you have already seen the rulebook so I expect playing a game is the next step. (This probably won't happen until much closer to release)
Anyways I wanted to start answering specific questions...
quote:
]Email questions from ChristopherGroves
1) What is the rarity breakdown?
2) Are the miniatures the same size as DDM / SWM?
3) How many minis may have some cross-over RPG use?
4) Will the game world be uniquely distinct?
5) Square bases?
6) Better scan of the map?
I know a number of folks are looking into mocking up a version of the game to see how it works now. The OP support alone has the attention of the more searious OP players.
1) The rarities work almost exactly like D&D minis.
1 Rare, 2 uncommon, 4 common in a booster.
2) The minis are like larges. Every mini is on the same size base which is almost exactly a large DDM base except that it is square.
3) About 2/3 of the minis could be used as D&D RPG minis. The others are too weird or sci-fi to be used most likely. In really weird compaigns or D20 modern/future you could use some of that remaining 1/3rd. They are not being marketed as D&D minis though and the stats printed on the base make it a little strange at first but are easily ignored after a day or two.
4) The game world (IP) is unique and distinct. Jonathan Tweet and Rob Heinsoo are responsible for the world. Rob wrote the fiction.
5) Square bases with rounded corners yes.
6) A better scan of the map will be put up eventually (could be much closer to release date, which is right before GenCon). The game is being shown off at Gama Trade Show today, not sure if someone will post pics from that.
If people have more specific questions I am happy to answer them. I don't know exactly what I am allowed to say yet so it is probably the best time to ask me :)
--
Mike Donais
Game Developer
Wizards of the Coast | |
Mike Donais
WotC R&D | |
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DDM Australian Champion 2005
psistef
Underboss
1572 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 7:25 PM |
| Mike,
Thanks so much for your support. | |
Champion of the Prestige Class where mages focus on telekenesis and start throwing people into the ceiling and uber stuff like that.
Desirer of a Commander Effect in CG that grants Sidestep to followers with a ranged attack. | |
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Balduran I
Sergeant
404 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 7:26 PM |
| [:D]
Someone read someone's mind. | |
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Bijan Ajamlou
Sneak
91 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 7:26 PM |
| | Lol i am starting to like this game[:o)] | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10104 Posts
United States
| | 03/14/2006 7:28 PM |
| It's nice to hear from one of the insiders. The quip about the $20,000 being distributed down to (perhaps) the 64th player makes things a little bit more palatable too.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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robbdaman
Underboss
2380 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 7:38 PM |
| Palatable sure but why not do the same with DDM? Just doesn't seem like there's a reason for it. Will I play in these tournaments? Probably not unless someone else supplies the minis.
R~ | |
Champion of the Titan
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Successful trades with: Tickparasite, Iyceman, Faragdar The Wise's friend, avrivah, Drakkengi, brucemc, Krush, maniacal_mini_monger, hung4treason, Gandy, NarlethDrider, Kunimatyu, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah..... | |
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The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 03/14/2006 7:43 PM |
| | Mike, Thanks for the reply. I also want to add, that we feel the same way about you guys as designers and the voices of the game as you feel about the community. You guys are great and are really what makes the game click for me. Feedback like this is wonderful. | |
Im out- find me on Hordelings if you want to chat. | |
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TroglodyteWizard89
Warrior
346 Posts
USA
| | 03/14/2006 7:44 PM |
| I dont see whats so wrong with this game. It looks interesting, but ill likely return to DDM. When SWM and HeroScape came out, I dabbled in them for a while, bought a few packs, a starter, etc., but always returned to DDM. I think it will be fun to do the same with this, but i dont think it will knock DDM off the face of the earth.
I also want to thank the R&D department for filling us in, it shows how tight knit our community is. | |
Champion of Troglodytes!
Guy Who Cant Get Anything Exact
(called uncommon displacer beast for Unhallowed
Squire of Runic Guardian, gets shield Guardian) | |
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