jgsugden
Commander
4320 Posts
    
Walnut Creek, CA
 | | 03/16/2006 4:33 PM |
| | Has anyone used the info in the downloadable game manual to try a mock game yet? Figure selection would be quite limited, but it should be feasible to at least get an idea for the game flow, etc ... | |
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Dagni
Sergeant
870 Posts
| | 03/16/2006 6:03 PM |
| I plan to Saturday, vs Fenris. Should be fun. There's a good 22 figures with full stats in the rulebook, and maybe we'll also incorporate the few minis from GAMA that had a good close-up of the stats on base, and thus complete stats.
- Dagni | |
Proud member of the GRUUMSH fan club! | |
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lynchpt
Sergeant
925 Posts
| | 03/16/2006 7:23 PM |
| I plan to try a mock game or two this weekend, just to start getting the rules down.
Pat Lynch | |
Dreamblade Rules Advisor | |
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Ack
Underboss
1476 Posts
| | 03/17/2006 1:05 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Dagni
I plan to Saturday, vs Fenris.
great - not only are we losing Fenris to this, we are losing you too.
BTW - whats the status on the Vassal Tourneys? Sealed 2 is hanging out in Limbo - can i offer a hand? | |
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striderlotr
Commander
3370 Posts
| | 03/17/2006 9:22 AM |
| | I'd like to give it a try this weekend, but I may have to wait a little long... maybe a game or two after the April Open in New Egnland. | |
Sean Banks
Champion of Elementals
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lynchpt
Sergeant
925 Posts
| | 03/17/2006 10:07 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by striderlotr
I'd like to give it a try this weekend, but I may have to wait a little long... maybe a game or two after the April Open in New Egnland.
That's a good idea, Sean. I will try to see if I can stay late (the Open should end at 4-5pm) and get a game or two in.
Pat Lynch | |
Dreamblade Rules Advisor | |
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striderlotr
Commander
3370 Posts
| | 03/17/2006 10:22 AM |
| | Now I really need to read up on the rules. We could even just just card board pieces to try it out. Can anyone print out a map/board? | |
Sean Banks
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PatEllis15
Commander
4459 Posts
| | 03/17/2006 10:22 AM |
| Hey, I'd be game for that... I bet Ack would as well, though he might be carpooling.
Pat E | |
"Games evolve. Otherwise we'd still be pushing rocks around the dirt. What do you think the cavemen said when some dude showed up with sticks?" - Chairman7w | |
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Ack
Underboss
1476 Posts
| | 03/17/2006 10:26 AM |
| | I might be carpooling.. but Im sure they can wait for us to play / watch a game (they really wont have much choice.. I have the car keys and Im not sure they can take them away from me). | |
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striderlotr
Commander
3370 Posts
| | 03/17/2006 11:15 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ack
I might be carpooling.. but Im sure they can wait for us to play / watch a game (they really wont have much choice.. I have the car keys and Im not sure they can take them away from me).
Although it would be interesting to see them try...
So we need to make some cardboard squars and prnt out some pictures to paste on and we are set for some trial runs. | |
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2005 D&D Miniatures Champion
Fenris
Sergeant
974 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 2:13 PM |
| So, I played my first game of Dreamblade on Saturday vs Dagni.
My overall reaction is very positive. It's not at all a simple game, which some people have been saying. Or rather, it's simple like chess is simple: you can pick up the mechanics easily, but that doesn't mean that the strategies are obvious.
The "move or strike" choice is sometimes very difficult. It can be hard to know whether killing/disrupting an enemy is more important than occupying/contesting a scoring cell.
I kept forgetting my "last licks" -- too used to DDM where a dying creature is just dead with no chance to respond. Thankfully Dagni reminded me to take my rolls.
I was very impressed with the performance of the Jack In The Box. It's cheap and hits hard. Of course when we know so little of the set it's tough to know if it really is good.
I can't wait for more spoilers! | |
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striderlotr
Commander
3370 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 2:38 PM |
| | I can't wait to try this out now. I agree with Fenris, just from reading the rules, there would be times when contesting the cell is more important then disupting/destroying a different enemy unit. The other thing is disrupting a unit can be a challenge as it moves to another unoccupied cell, which could score points, if I understand it correctly. | |
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Professional Fan of DDM
Shoe
Sergeant
804 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 4:34 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by striderlotr
The other thing is disrupting a unit can be a challenge as it moves to another unoccupied cell, which could score points, if I understand it correctly.
When a creature is disrupted, the player that dealt damage normally chooses the unoccupied space that the creature moves to. While you could place it in a scoring cell, it's more likely that you don't. | |
Professional Fan of DDM | |
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Balduran I
Sergeant
404 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 5:21 PM |
| Fenris and Dagni,
Did you find that once scoreing starts that moving second is an advantage? It seems like it would be; totalling up the Conquest points before the Second player's action phases lets them see exactly what they need to do (not that it's doable, the dice being what they are), and that seems like it would be an advantage. | |
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2005 D&D Miniatures Champion
Fenris
Sergeant
974 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 6:01 PM |
| It did seem that going second is an advantage - sorta. You do get the advantage you mention as far as knowing exactly what you need to win the turn. And it's nice that the opponent doesn't get a deathblow with his destroyed creatures when you're going second.
But, this is balanced by the fact that the 2nd player seems to end up shifting twice instead of attacking an awful lot -- just to get creatures disrupted in the 1st player's turn back into position. Also, not getting blade abilities on deathblows means that blade-based synergies don't actually exist when you consistently go second (and are making a lot of deathblow attacks instead of regular attacks.)
It's also worth mentioning that unlike DDM, you can't pass the init -- you either win init or you don't, there's no decision involved.
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Balduran I
Sergeant
404 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 7:03 PM |
| Yes, the 1-2(w/ deathblow), 1-2 (no deathblow) phasing, with roughly 50% chance of getting 4 action phases in a row each 2 turns seems incredibly deep. Knowing the odds and abilities 4 'moves' out could really give skill the one up over luck.
How did you play with regards to Disruption in a non-Strike phase. If a figure is disrupted during a shift did you move it immediately, or wait until the end of the phase? Did you leave damage on the fig after you moved it (and clear it at the end of the phase), or clear is upon moving it to the new cell? (It's the one thing in the rules that I think is too vague, and could be interpreted either way.) | |
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Dagni
Sergeant
870 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 7:12 PM |
| Hard to say, exactly. I won initiative every single time, I'm pretty sure, once combat was joined. There were at least one or two key initiatives where whichever side went first was going to really smack the other side. I was the one doing that each such time. Often that ended up being disrupts, and he'd no longer have much left to attack with, so he'd move twice and quickly set up another potential big battle.
Late game, though, when I had a 5-3 lead twice in a row (first one ended tied), I spent a lot of time trying to find a way to win no matter what he did. The first turn, I found that I could force a tie, but couldn't force a win, quite. If he had gone first, instead? Hmm. Probably that would've worked better for me, I'm not sure. The next turn - with no spawn phase - I won by attacking in three different locations where we were contesting each other's scores from last turn. Good results there kept him from being able to win enough conquest points to win the turn. Had he gone first, those battles would've gone much differently, and I think he would've managed to win the turn, and gain much improved board position.
Another way of putting it: I always went first, and I won, 6-3. At this point I think first was typically better, but not always, and those deathstrikes consistantly killed something (small) of mine in return.
Oh, and we both used a couple Jack-in-the-Boxes, and they seemed strong, as Fenris said. However, the mini I really loved was the Spellbound Scissors. He used one, and I used two, and they were very effective at contesting or scoring conquest points, and at blocking or temporarily pinning powerful enemy units.
- Dagni | |
Proud member of the GRUUMSH fan club! | |
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Dagni
Sergeant
870 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 7:18 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Balduran I
How did you play with regards to Disruption in a non-Strike phase. If a figure is disrupted during a shift did you move it immediately, or wait until the end of the phase? Did you leave damage on the fig after you moved it (and clear it at the end of the phase), or clear is upon moving it to the new cell? (It's the one thing in the rules that I think is too vague, and could be interpreted either way.)
Definitely won't come up in a normal game. I suppose the Ambush and Charge abilities could allow Disruption to happen during movement. Likewise, when a Disrupted creature heals shouldn't matter, as it's in an empty cell, and shouldn't be taking any more damage. Regardless, it has to heal immediately, right? Otherwise, you could Disrupt it over and over that phase? If it took enough to disrupt OR kill, you could disrupt it THEN kill? Those scenarios don't really make sense. | |
Proud member of the GRUUMSH fan club! | |
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striderlotr
Commander
3370 Posts
| | 03/21/2006 8:45 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Shoe
quote:
Originally posted by striderlotr
The other thing is disrupting a unit can be a challenge as it moves to another unoccupied cell, which could score points, if I understand it correctly.
When a creature is disrupted, the player that dealt damage normally chooses the unoccupied space that the creature moves to. While you could place it in a scoring cell, it's more likely that you don't.
But as your opponent may move his own pieces into cells to force you to move the piece to an unoccupied cell, he could have units in his nonscoring cell area, forcing you to move the piece to a scoring cell.
example: He has a single unit in all of his non-scoring cell row, which is also your scoring row. You attack and disrupt one of his units, allowing you to move it. This means that you have to move it to an unoccupied cell, into scoring position for him. This does also mean you would be in sacoring position after the move.
This is what I got from the rules, so please correct me if I'm wrong. | |
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striderlotr
Commander
3370 Posts
| | 03/21/2006 8:50 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Dagni
quote:
Originally posted by Balduran I
How did you play with regards to Disruption in a non-Strike phase. If a figure is disrupted during a shift did you move it immediately, or wait until the end of the phase? Did you leave damage on the fig after you moved it (and clear it at the end of the phase), or clear is upon moving it to the new cell? (It's the one thing in the rules that I think is too vague, and could be interpreted either way.)
Definitely won't come up in a normal game. I suppose the Ambush and Charge abilities could allow Disruption to happen during movement. Likewise, when a Disrupted creature heals shouldn't matter, as it's in an empty cell, and shouldn't be taking any more damage. Regardless, it has to heal immediately, right? Otherwise, you could Disrupt it over and over that phase? If it took enough to disrupt OR kill, you could disrupt it THEN kill? Those scenarios don't really make sense.
That is the way I read it in the rule book. A disrupted creature has all damage removed from it as you move it to an unoccupied cell. | |
Sean Banks
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Balduran I
Sergeant
404 Posts
| | 03/21/2006 10:13 AM |
| Charge was what caught my eye.
In any game there are rules, fundamentals about how it works. Whenever those fundamentals are violated it has the potential to be overpowered, the kind of thing a player wants to know and a winner will exploit. One of the fundamentals seems to be a choice - either move or kill things; Charge lets you do both, potentially very powerful. Shift in the first action to get position and get rid of weenies with Charge, 2nd action is a Strike. So it stands out. IMO.
Anyway, with months left before the release it's bound to get clarified. And if Charge is so expensive that it's really not powerful, then it may never even come up. | |
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DaemonKain
Warrior
312 Posts
| | 03/21/2006 11:31 AM |
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quote:
But as your opponent may move his own pieces into cells to force you to move the piece to an unoccupied cell, he could have units in his nonscoring cell area, forcing you to move the piece to a scoring cell.
example: He has a single unit in all of his non-scoring cell row, which is also your scoring row. You attack and disrupt one of his units, allowing you to move it. This means that you have to move it to an unoccupied cell, into scoring position for him. This does also mean you would be in sacoring position after the move.
This is what I got from the rules, so please correct me if I'm wrong.
Remember that you are dealing with a 5x5 grid. Only the center three columns are scoring for either player, which leaves a column on either side that would only be used for movement, not for scoring. It's unlikely that you and your opponent would already be occupying all 6 of those squares, in addition to all the scoring tiles. I'm not saying your point can't ever happen, just that it's not particularly likely.
In addition, is there anything that says when you disrupt a creature you can't place it in the owner's spawn row? I know that I can't move my own creatures into an opponents spawn row, but I don't see anything that says we couldn't disrupt into it.
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-DaemonKain
Proud Mascot of Team Amish | |
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striderlotr
Commander
3370 Posts
| | 03/21/2006 12:40 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by DaemonKain
quote:
But as your opponent may move his own pieces into cells to force you to move the piece to an unoccupied cell, he could have units in his nonscoring cell area, forcing you to move the piece to a scoring cell.
example: He has a single unit in all of his non-scoring cell row, which is also your scoring row. You attack and disrupt one of his units, allowing you to move it. This means that you have to move it to an unoccupied cell, into scoring position for him. This does also mean you would be in sacoring position after the move.
This is what I got from the rules, so please correct me if I'm wrong.
Remember that you are dealing with a 5x5 grid. Only the center three columns are scoring for either player, which leaves a column on either side that would only be used for movement, not for scoring. It's unlikely that you and your opponent would already be occupying all 6 of those squares, in addition to all the scoring tiles. I'm not saying your point can't ever happen, just that it's not particularly likely.
In addition, is there anything that says when you disrupt a creature you can't place it in the owner's spawn row? I know that I can't move my own creatures into an opponents spawn row, but I don't see anything that says we couldn't disrupt into it.
Excellent point. I would love to know if the spawn row is a viable option. | |
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Dagni
Sergeant
870 Posts
| | 03/21/2006 2:03 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by striderlotr
Excellent point. I would love to know if the spawn row is a viable option.
That was our assumption, and thus where we always disrupted the other player's creatures.
- Dagni | |
Proud member of the GRUUMSH fan club! | |
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striderlotr
Commander
3370 Posts
| | 03/21/2006 3:08 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Dagni
quote:
Originally posted by striderlotr
Excellent point. I would love to know if the spawn row is a viable option.
That was our assumption, and thus where we always disrupted the other player's creatures.
- Dagni
Hey Mike can you give us a confirmation on this point. It would change one thought I had about disruption if you can place them in the spawn row.
Thanks! | |
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Shining Knight
mdonais
Skirmisher
46 Posts
| | 03/21/2006 3:47 PM |
| The most common place to disrupt a creature is the portal and the other corner of the spawn row. (basically as far away from scoring cells as possible)
The next most common is the the spawn row to block spawning in that column.
More advanced players will occasionally spawn in weird places to set up attacks or blade abilities. | |
Mike Donais
WotC R&D | |
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Balduran I
Sergeant
404 Posts
| | 03/21/2006 3:56 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by DaemonKain
I know that I can't move my own creatures into an opponents spawn row, but I don't see anything that says we couldn't disrupt into it.
There's no prohibition about occupying the opponent's spawn row, including his/her portal, that I can find. In fact the glossary entry for portal makes it clear that you can have up to 4 figures and 1 location in the opponent's portal. p. 36. | |
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Mindtrick
Warrior
233 Posts
| | 03/21/2006 7:09 PM |
| I can not wait to get more spoiler information so I can post it and we can get some really good game testing going. I thought the Jack in the Box (JitB or JB?) would make for an interesting piece.
Has anyone tried using the Fleshless Reaper with its Ambush ability? | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10885 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 03/22/2006 7:58 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ack
I might be carpooling.. but Im sure they can wait for us to play / watch a game (they really wont have much choice.. I have the car keys and Im not sure they can take them away from me).
I'll just go back with glumag.  | |
No Hazel, no peace 
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
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striderlotr
Commander
3370 Posts
| | 03/22/2006 9:43 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by mdonais
The most common place to disrupt a creature is the portal and the other corner of the spawn row. (basically as far away from scoring cells as possible)
The next most common is the the spawn row to block spawning in that column.
More advanced players will occasionally spawn in weird places to set up attacks or blade abilities.
Thanks Mike! This is just the information I was looking for. | |
Sean Banks
Champion of Elementals
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striderlotr
Commander
3370 Posts
| | 03/22/2006 9:46 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Balduran I
quote:
Originally posted by DaemonKain
I know that I can't move my own creatures into an opponents spawn row, but I don't see anything that says we couldn't disrupt into it.
There's no prohibition about occupying the opponent's spawn row, including his/her portal, that I can find. In fact the glossary entry for portal makes it clear that you can have up to 4 figures and 1 location in the opponent's portal. p. 36.
But as the spawn row is not a scoring row, I don't see why you would want to occupy those cells. I see Mike's point about moving the figure to a opposite corners, or into a location for a prime spawn cell. | |
Sean Banks
Champion of Elementals
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DaemonKain
Warrior
312 Posts
| | 03/22/2006 1:58 PM |
| | If anyone wants to play a test game with the version of the Mod we've got so far, I'm up for playing this evening. I'm around after about 8:30pm EST. | |
-DaemonKain
Proud Mascot of Team Amish | |
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Dagni
Sergeant
870 Posts
| | 03/22/2006 2:22 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by striderlotr
quote:
Originally posted by Balduran I
quote:
Originally posted by DaemonKain
I know that I can't move my own creatures into an opponents spawn row, but I don't see anything that says we couldn't disrupt into it.
There's no prohibition about occupying the opponent's spawn row, including his/her portal, that I can find. In fact the glossary entry for portal makes it clear that you can have up to 4 figures and 1 location in the opponent's portal. p. 36.
But as the spawn row is not a scoring row, I don't see why you would want to occupy those cells. I see Mike's point about moving the figure to a opposite corners, or into a location for a prime spawn cell.
Ah, but what about moving one weak piece into one of those cells, so that a powerful group that just spawned can't move at all until it wastes a phase attacking? Perhaps now they can't reach a unit two away that IS in a scoring area, so you will win the turn.
- Dagni | |
Proud member of the GRUUMSH fan club! | |
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Balduran I
Sergeant
404 Posts
| | 03/22/2006 3:00 PM |
| I can think of a couple of possible reasons you'd want to put a fig in the opponent's spawn row.
1) As Dagni says, simply tying up a fig (one can't normally shift from a contested cell - a strike phase must be declared and completed successfully first) can pay dividends when the battle is to win each turn.
2) Even if it doesn't cause someone to spawn in the cell, a fig in that row can't be ignored. Chances are it's only one shift from a 3 (or more) point scoring cell; making him put resources on his side of the dreamscape means they're not on his 3 point scoring side.
3) It allows one of your locations to be spawend in the opponent's spawn row. Have no idea if it will be viable, but I can imagine some location abilities not being the best thing for him to have on his doorstep.
None of them may work in real play. But having the option opens up possibilities. | |
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
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Haleq
Skirmisher
5 Posts
| | 03/22/2006 5:07 PM |
| | I played my first VASSAL game with the mod, and it was fun. VERY strategic. Ill probably be on for the rest of the night. | |
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Idzy
Commander
3081 Posts
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
| | 03/22/2006 5:48 PM |
| | I was Haleq's opponent and it was my first game also, I really ejoyed it, its too bad we only got to go a little over 3 rounds thent he server crashed, and then it was time for me to go home from work[:)] | |
Champion of Champions (for all races! even Gnomes  )
Reference Thread
Winnipeg Gryphon Cavalry Forums
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striderlotr
Commander
3370 Posts
| | 03/23/2006 8:26 AM |
| | I'll down load the mod tonight and take a look. I'll not be on until later though... maybe 8:30 EST. | |
Sean Banks
Champion of Elementals
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DaemonKain
Warrior
312 Posts
| | 03/26/2006 4:53 PM |
| | I just played Haleq, and I have to agree that it was a lot of fun! I like the fact that the basic rules are so simple - there wasn't any issue of my not knowing what the potential options were, or anything of that nature. Good game Haleq! | |
-DaemonKain
Proud Mascot of Team Amish | |
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Haleq
Skirmisher
5 Posts
| | 03/27/2006 3:07 PM |
| | It was quite fun. I just wish more people used this mod, because im always up for a game. | |
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