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Chad the DragonLordofAiur
Underboss
1085 Posts
    
Southeast PA
 | | 03/17/2006 11:25 AM |
| As one of the top DDM players in the world and a long time contributor to this web site I felt compelled to respond to the announcement about Dreamblade. My initial reaction was, cool, a suped up miniatures game that will be much better than DDM. Then I thought about all the time and money spent on thousands of DDM miniatures and the efforts I’ve put in to get my FLGS to start running tournaments. I panicked along with the rest of you. I grew increasingly worried about the future of DDM and the huge re-investment of resources (both time and money, but mostly money) that switching games would cost me. As a husband and father of two children it was already difficult for me to find the time to play and justify spending hundreds of dollars each year for a game. So now I am in a dilemma. Do I stick with DDM or do I switch to the new game or do I try to support both?
D&D is the greatest game ever. DDM is the greatest head to head game I’ve ever played. I fell in love with D&D almost 30 years ago and have never been bored. D&D is a different type of game than DDM. But DDM uses creatures that I was familiar with and spells, powers, and special abilities of all the things I loved about D&D. That’s what attracted me to the game of DDM. There were other miniatures games out long before DDM but none of them drew my interest until DDM. DDM played like D&D with the strategic flavor of chess. I thrived on the excitement of matching wits with an opponent head to head and outsmarting them through warband design and/or gameplay. Plus the miniatures had a double use and could be used in D&D. This was a perfect match and I have jumped in head first into the world of DDM skirmish and collecting.
So what about Dreamblade? I am still in the process of reading through the rules completely. I must admit there are things about the game that are intriguing but it isn’t drawing me in the same way DDM did when I first tried it. It isn’t the suped up miniatures game that I initially thought it was. I guess I will have to play it to see but I am not anymore interested in it than any other board game or card game. Don’t get me wrong, I love games of all kinds and grew up playing all kinds of board games, so I know I would enjoy the game if I played it. But will it really hold my interest as much as DDM? It doesn’t have the familiarity of pieces like DDM does and the game is not about combat and maneuvering on a battlefield like DDM. The game is very different to DDM and I think comparing it directly to DDM is unfair. I’m not even sure it should be called a miniatures game. A miniatures game to me is one of combat and battlefields, maneuvering and flanking and firing arrows, etc. Dreamblade uses an abstract battlefield. A 5x5 grid and plays more like a card game than a battle game. Plus the genre is more science fiction than Medieval fantasy. So what is there to like about this game? Well the money offered as prizes is the only thing that has me considering it. If they didn’t offer up so much money I wouldn’t have any interest in playing the game at all. Period. To get into this game would require another huge investment of money and time that I can’t afford. Maybe you are in the same position. Can you afford both games? I can’t. So which one do you play?
I guess it really comes down to whether you play for the competition and the prize money or if you play for fun. If DDM offered similar prizes then there would be no question in my mind at all. I would play DDM because I love the game and it is fun. I will try Dreamblade to give it a fair chance to really see if it is as good as they claim it is. I am doubtful that it will entice me the way DDM does. I just feel really disappointed that WoTC didn’t throw these kinds of prizes into DDM tournaments. I really felt this game could hit the big time and dominate like MtG. For WoTC to offer huge prizes to a game with no history is an insult to DDM, a game that has been successful and could use a little help to give it some growth. That is what bothers me the most. DDM could really thrive if similar prize money was offered. I would think people would flock to play DDM if they knew they had a shot to win thousands of dollars. DDM is the game I love and with deep passion. It really hurts my feelings when the company that made the game I love so much comes out and promotes this other game more.
I will still play DDM as I have so much invested already. All my friends have said they will stick with DDM. Dreamblade may be flashier and have better prizes but it’s not the same game and won’t be as fun for me. The cost to play it is too high, and the pieces aren’t as useful in D&D either. D&D will always be around so DDM will always be around. I can’t say the same for Dreamblade. D&D has stood the test of time with other RPG games. I don’t know what the future holds for Dreamblade but DDM will always be number one in my heart and I am still passionate about playing it. I will play the game that is more fun. For now that is DDM, but I will give Dreamblade a try. Who knows, I may hate the game or I may love it. If Dreamblade fails the pieces will be worthless. If DDM fails I can still use ALL of them in D&D.
In conclusion I just wanted to say this. Dreamblade is a different game than DDM and shouldn’t be compared directly to it. Don’t jump ship from DDM because you think Dreamblade is better. For some people it may be better but for some people it won’t. I think most DDM players play DDM for reasons they won’t find in Dreamblade. If what thrills you is tournaments and big prizes then go play Dreamblade. If it is skirmishing and running D&D-like battles on cool maps, flinging fireballs around, and shooting arrows then play DDM. Play for fun or play for money. DDM could be both with the right support. Let’s hope WoTC offers up better prizes so that we can have the best of both worlds playing DDM.
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Member of Team Amish
3rd Place in 2007 Constructed World Championship
My combined DDM Skirmish record of all games ever played in all formats.
486 - 188 - 4 | |
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lynchpt
Sergeant
926 Posts
| | 03/17/2006 11:41 AM |
| Chad,
One point you hit here is the issue of theme. I think the theme of a game (at least CMG and CCGs) is the primary reason why people prefer one game over another. For example, I would probably enjoy the rules and gameplay of Warhammer 40k, but since I don;t care about the theme, I've never even played. As soon as WotC announced Chainmail, I knew I would love it (if the rules were half-decent) because it hit my favorite theme of D&D. It turns out that the rules were pretty good. So, I have stuck with WotC through the cancellation of Chainmail and the advent of DDM. I'm staying with DDM and if they cancel it and introduce DDM 2.0, I'll play that too.
But this theme can hit both ways. A lot of people on the boards have said that WotC should give the same kind of prize support to DDM as they are giving to DB, because DDM could be similarly big. I would propose that that view is incorrect. The business folks at WotC spend all day thinking of how to maximize their company's profits. If they thought more prize support could drive DDM to MtG-like huge status, they would have provided the support. I suspect that they have concluded the D&D theme is not attractive enough to the broader market to drive a miniatures game to massive success. Also,there are game design constraints imposed by the need to adhere to a well eveolved theme like D&D. Some of these constraints probably inhibited the designers from providing the type of play experience required for a game to be successful in the big-money environment.
But not being a smash hit doesn't stop DDM from being great fun and profitable enough for WotC to continue support. I think recent announcements by WotC people have given us ample reason for confidence in DDM's continued growth and support.
Our best days are still ahead us in the DDM world, I think.
Pat Lynch | |
Dreamblade Rules Advisor | |
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Ack
Underboss
1476 Posts
| | 03/17/2006 11:57 AM |
| quote:
But not being a smash hit doesn't stop DDM from being great fun and profitable enough for WotC to continue support. I think recent announcements by WotC people have given us ample reason for confidence in DDM's continued growth and support.
thats the phrase Ive been trying to put together between beer, class and ADD. I was gonna work on it this weekend (if I get any computer time after having been gone for a week) | |
Minis... Serious Business
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striderlotr
Commander
3370 Posts
| | 03/17/2006 2:10 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ack
quote:
But not being a smash hit doesn't stop DDM from being great fun and profitable enough for WotC to continue support. I think recent announcements by WotC people have given us ample reason for confidence in DDM's continued growth and support.
thats the phrase Ive been trying to put together between beer, class and ADD. I was gonna work on it this weekend (if I get any computer time after having been gone for a week)
And being St. Patrick's Day makes it all the harder. | |
Sean Banks
Champion of Elementals
Official Organizer
Gen Con 05 maxminis Event | Winterfantasy 06 maxminis Event | Gen Con 06 maxminis Event | Winterfantasy 07 Community Event | |
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Dagni
Sergeant
870 Posts
| | 03/17/2006 2:12 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Chad the DragonLordofAiur
If what thrills you is tournaments and big prizes then go play Dreamblade. If it is skirmishing and running D&D-like battles on cool maps, flinging fireballs around, and shooting arrows then play DDM. Play for fun or play for money. DDM could be both with the right support. Let’s hope WoTC offers up better prizes so that we can have the best of both worlds playing DDM.
I think some people sorta see it that way. Play for fun or play for money. As in, they want to have fun, and don't want their tournaments to be too cutthroat.
However, there are people for which tournaments and big prizes ARE thrilling. I don't mean because of the payoff if you win, I mean because of the competition itself. Play for a little bit of fun or play for money and a whole lot of fun. Dreamblade seems to be the game designed from the ground up for people like me, who thrive on competition.
True, WotC could morph DDM into such a game. However, that's at the risk of alienating some of the core fan base. D&D, after all, is about as far from a competitive game as you can get! DDM also has more constraints on R&D than a new game, as Pat Lynch mentioned. Likewise, there is a notable issue with the tournament scene and the time limit that becomes more and more of a problem the higher the stakes are. Even in the top 8 at the Championships, I didn't have any worries about *intentional* stalling - that is, cheating - from an opponent. If first prize had been 10k or more? It's a lot harder to trust the honor of your opponent, when it can easily be the difference in a match.
It's easy to look at Dreamblade and envy the support it's getting when it's not even a proven product, whereas DDM has proven success behind it, and isn't getting as much. However, look at it from a business standpoint. DDM could try either of two methods: slow growth from word of mouth advertising and a slowly growing support base, or a huge investment in support and prizes to try to jump-start the game with a lot of advertising.
Dreamblade only has one option that makes sense. The second one. A game that is designed from the ground up to be a great tournament game can't possibly succeed at that goal until it has a large player base. Great tournaments can't happen without that large player base, yet you won't get a large player base without great tournaments. WotC's business plan for this game reflects that reality.
Once you accept that, the only question that remains as it relates to DDM is whether or not Dreamblade will hurt the growth of DDM. I see that as unlikely, but I wouldn't really know.
The real question, always there but spotlighted by the arrival of Dreamblade, is which business model should WotC use for the DDM tournament scene? Slow growth with a bit less capital spent versus more spent to attempt to bring in more players? The question only WotC can answer is whether or not it would be cost effective. The question we can try to answer is whether or not more prizes (and what kind of prizes) is what we really want?
I know I personally want more prizes. I'm a very competitive gamer, and enjoy the bigger tournaments a lot more than the small ones. More prizes, if it brings in new players at all, generally will bring in the competitive kind of player. Will that be a bad thing to the 'for fun' player? Is there a type of prize support (i.e. not money) that would draw in more new players that are casual players? I'm not sure of the answers to those questions.
- Dagni | |
Proud member of the GRUUMSH fan club! | |
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Chad the DragonLordofAiur
Underboss
1085 Posts
Southeast PA
| | 03/17/2006 2:26 PM |
| Pat - I do agree that DDM can't be as big as MtG. I meant that with better prize support DDM could be bigger than it is. It certainly won't approach the status of MtG because of the restrictions that Dagni just pointed out.
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Member of Team Amish
3rd Place in 2007 Constructed World Championship
My combined DDM Skirmish record of all games ever played in all formats.
486 - 188 - 4 | |
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
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