XAos
Underboss
2358 Posts
    
London
 | | 07/25/2006 9:39 AM |
| I know the games not even out yet, but in my view, the best time to know whats worth playing & whats not is before you spend money on buying figures. The information is a lot less usefull afterwards.
So heres my list of the most playable figures in the dreamblade base set;
All Seeing Mage
Cannibal Pariah
Darkheart Cottage
Dreadmorph Ogre
Faceless Stalker
Fleshless Reaper
Heartsblood Temple
Inspired Samurai
Jack of Blades
Loyal Scragglemaw
Pearlthorn castle
Scarab Warcharm
Spellbound scissors
Skull Hill
Thunder Sultan
Voodoo Manipulator
Tier-1 wanna-bees.
Pick-Pick, Zombie Enforcer; Not quite as cost-effective as the Cannibal Pariah or Spellbound-Scissors. But sometimes you roll one extra spawn point & these units let you spend it.
Mirror Man, Jack-in-the-Box; Only in a Janus warband. There are better beatstiks for non-Janus warbands.
Whirling Dervish; Teleporting a pair of these in the same turn & then spawing a Darkhheart cottage can be devastating, but it takes a lot of setting up.
Greenleaf Dryad; Power-5 & energize-3 makes this "the" classic Passion unit. It would be tier-1 if it's energize didn't also help your opponent.
Knight of Strife and Joy; "Defender" drops this into the wanna-bee category. If you can make it work Skirmish-2 could wipe out the entire opposing warband. But thats a big if.
Slaughter Boots; Destroying locations gets it on this list. It's poor cost-effectiveness & Dual-blade activation. keep it out of Tier-1. | |
Don't worry about the current metagame. It doesn't matter if it's ugly, bad, or the best ever. In 2 years time, set rotation will ban everything. | |
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bshugg
Underboss
1775 Posts
| | 07/27/2006 7:36 AM |
| Don't forget:
Flame Harrower
Hawkeyed Instigator
Blood wolf (Kaboom!)
Ardent Zunger
Barb Strider
Whirlwind Dervish
Ice Troll | |
Looking for someone to cosponser a midwest DDM event. let me know if your interested!
Check out my brand new blog:
http://bshugg.blogspot.com | |
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XAos
Underboss
2358 Posts
London
| | 07/27/2006 8:59 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by bshugg
Don't forget:
...
Ice Troll
Was that a trick question. No Ice Troll in the spoiler lists, maybe WotC forgot it. [:)]
You can't mean the Shard Troll ? That has only 4 life and a comparitively high 4PPP spawn cost. Which makes it at best a 1-shot suicide unit. And it might not manage even one shot against a unit with ambush or warpstrike. | |
Don't worry about the current metagame. It doesn't matter if it's ugly, bad, or the best ever. In 2 years time, set rotation will ban everything. | |
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lynchpt
Sergeant
922 Posts
| | 07/27/2006 10:48 AM |
| Blood Wolf is a piece I have, so I have used it several times. These games have been casual or sometimes even demo games. I think the Wolf is a little too variable to be top drawer. While his blade ability can be devastating, you can't really know ahead of time whether the extra four damage he can provide will actually make the difference in the dispruption/destruction of a significant number of units. A couple of times, he worked great, and a couple of times, he blew up, but the extra damage was not needed/helpful. When you factor in that you really want him only in combats with at least two (but hopefully more) enemies, the Blood Wolf is even more tactically constraining.
I've also had trouble using the Shard Troll successfully, but maybe he will be more useful late game in a band tuned to produce lots of extra spawn points.
Pat Lynch | |
Dreamblade Rules Advisor | |
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bshugg
Underboss
1775 Posts
| | 07/28/2006 9:49 AM |
| whoops, ice troll is from set 2. He's AMAZING!!!
kidding, I meant shard troll. He's very cheap for such a powerful effect and your opponent really needs to deal with him. 6 out of 10 times your opponent guns for him and he dies. So he's a cheap bodyguard in an aspect that needs one. When they don't he MAULS something with no chance of retaliation. It doesn't matter if you go first or second in that given round, you just need to make sure you engage with him on the rounds where you go last. Being able to trade your spawn points for a solid attack against a threat is a really useful ability.
He may end up getting overshadowed by other figures, but the three times I have used them they have done well for themselves. | |
Looking for someone to cosponser a midwest DDM event. let me know if your interested!
Check out my brand new blog:
http://bshugg.blogspot.com | |
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Arnminster
Warrior
296 Posts
| | 07/28/2006 11:04 AM |
| I used the Shard Troll in a sealed game. He was amazing. He is a great mid-game piece because by then you have enough of his aspect to only pay the spawn cost. I ending up getting 13 spawn points in a round due to creatures being destroyed and summoned one creature then did a 9 Dice strike on a major creature and killed it.
This is a hard piece to use though. As stated by bshugg You don't want to engage with it unless you go second in a round. Also if you do engage with it you have to hope that no 1s are rolled for Init. Also you really do need to be able to generate many spawn points to use it correctly because 3-4 dice strikes really suck.
Edit - When I mentioned the 3-4 dice strike above I am asuming that around 6-8 spawn points are available and that at least one creature is being spawned in the round. | |
Champion of the Rust Monster
Proud Member of Team Amish | |
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Amy
Skirmisher
7 Posts
| | 07/28/2006 5:51 PM |
| | What??? No one has the Dreadmorph Ogre on their list? Who doesn't like multiblade expel? | |
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Shivan Darkeyes
Warrior
266 Posts
| | 07/28/2006 6:46 PM |
| Alluring Succubus
Cannibal Pariah
Darkheart Cottage
Dreadmorph Ogre
Fleshless Reaper
Hawk-Eyed Instigator
Heartsblood Temple
Horrid Poltregiest
Inspired Samurai
Jack of Blades
Lunar Handmaiden
Noble Dragon
Pearlthorn Castle
Runetagged Brawler
Scarab Warcharm
Slaughter Boots
Spellbound Scissors
Thunder Sultan
Voodoo Manipulator
Thats my list. I am pretty sure that any omissions from it are intentional... some pieces like Brighthammer Avenger, Knight of Strife and Joy, Barbstrider, Eater of Hope, Forgeblind Punisher, Book of Nothing, and Dreamstuff Entity were really close to making the list but just didn't have enough universal applicability to get on there. I was shooting for pieces that were strong enough to go into non-themed bands.
Interestingly I find that a little over 20% of the set are viable Tier 1 pieces, but that is probably because you have to make a 16 figure warband out of 96 pieces and the amount of viable pieces from set 1 will decrease as future sets come out. | |
13th Place at the 2005 DDM Championship in GenCon | |
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bshugg
Underboss
1775 Posts
| | 07/28/2006 10:36 PM |
| On the bus going to dreamblade day, I had a conversation with Balduran that most games only have 10% viable figures for top level play. 20% if they do a great job with design.
When you talk tier 1 figures you have to pretty much omit a lot of things even if they win tournaments. Tier 1 bands can include the powerful themes based around certain figures, but tier 1 figures are the ones good in every band that uses them. For example in DDM, Gith monks + young master makes a tier 1 band, but either figure is not tier 1 on their own. You will rarely see either played alone. | |
Looking for someone to cosponser a midwest DDM event. let me know if your interested!
Check out my brand new blog:
http://bshugg.blogspot.com | |
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ryno106
Skirmisher
2 Posts
| | 07/30/2006 3:02 PM |
| | One thing we've always had a rule of in other games is that there are very rarely 'good cards', only 'good decks'. I think the same applies here, replacing the phrase with figures and warbands, obviously. I actually think we're going to see a majority of the set be more playable as time goes on, because of how the construction aspect of the game mirrors card games. The lineages are pretty weak right now, but as time goes on, we will see more of those lineages introduced, making some of the older figures more playable. | |
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-Ryan | |
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XAos
Underboss
2358 Posts
London
| | 07/31/2006 6:35 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Shivan Darkeyes
Interestingly I find that a little over 20% of the set are viable Tier 1 pieces, but that is probably because you have to make a 16 figure warband out of 96 pieces and the amount of viable pieces from set 1 will decrease as future sets come out.
I certainly agree with both those concepts; Well under 1/3 of the set is worth owning.
And many of the currently usable figures will become obsolete quickly.
I see at least 3 ways in which early expansions will change the list of tier-1 units.
1) Most of the units on my list at the moment are included because they are the only unit with a particular ability (e.g. ambush) and will be replaced the moment a better unit with that ability is available.
2) The rulebook suggests there are special abilities which affect the initiative roll. And the base set doesn't have anything like that. Once that sort of ability is added, I expect game strategy to change radically.
3) Several of the "Lineages" currently are just cosmetic {Hiveling, Lost} I would expect Lineages to become much more imporatnt as the choice of available figures increases.
On specific units, I tested Brighthammer avenger in various warbands yesterday. And it has a tendancy to become "stuck". It needs too many support units to keep them moving reliably.
Also I was missreading the Bloodthirsty redcap. When it's ability kills it you don't get 2 spawn points for a destroyed unit.
So I'd take both those off my list.
I would add Skull Hill, it should combo well with a Fleshless Reaper.
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Don't worry about the current metagame. It doesn't matter if it's ugly, bad, or the best ever. In 2 years time, set rotation will ban everything. | |
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azuretide
Sergeant
405 Posts
| | 08/02/2006 11:40 AM |
| | don't for get the thunder sultan he is pretty nasty like the voodoo manipulator especially late in the game when you really want o expel people out of combat | |
Completed trades: bonelock, noilo x2, greylord78, Altayr, Shadow Lord x3, qillan_dvra, symbiotesx2, devasque, smetzger, dulsin, Sir Bozak The Damned, Ironfist Boulderbender x3, tallcar24, Tactician x2, Okay McKay, skwave, dariustad,Eprosen,hung4treason,dog of the underworld,FeranEldritchKnight,Jerry_Damage01,vtloon | |
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XAos
Underboss
2358 Posts
London
| | 08/02/2006 12:17 PM |
| Thunder Sultan has been on most "top-20" lists for a while.
The question that interests me at the moment, is;
If your warband only has space for a Thunder Sultan or a Voodoo Manipulator (but not both) which one would you include ?
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Don't worry about the current metagame. It doesn't matter if it's ugly, bad, or the best ever. In 2 years time, set rotation will ban everything. | |
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azuretide
Sergeant
405 Posts
| | 08/02/2006 6:09 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by XAos
Thunder Sultan has been on most "top-20" lists for a while.
The question that interests me at the moment, is;
If your warband only has space for a Thunder Sultan or a Voodoo Manipulator (but not both) which one would you include ?
probably a vodoo manipulator as they can push critters away so its hard for them to even engage on a turn | |
Completed trades: bonelock, noilo x2, greylord78, Altayr, Shadow Lord x3, qillan_dvra, symbiotesx2, devasque, smetzger, dulsin, Sir Bozak The Damned, Ironfist Boulderbender x3, tallcar24, Tactician x2, Okay McKay, skwave, dariustad,Eprosen,hung4treason,dog of the underworld,FeranEldritchKnight,Jerry_Damage01,vtloon | |
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Amy
Skirmisher
7 Posts
| | 08/03/2006 1:48 AM |
| I think that both the Thunder Sultan and Voodoo Manipulator are very good pieces, and it depends on the warband you play as to which one is better. My favorite band plays the Fleshless Reaper, so if I had to choose only one (I play both now)I would choose the Thunder Sultan. Expel is good because there are generally a lot of engaged creatures in the middle cells. I can expel a small creature in any direction into my Reaper. I can also expel enemies out of battle when I lose init, or into more favorable battles when I win.
Scare is very valuable too. As others have said, it helps push the opponent away. It can work with the Fleshless Reaper too, but I find that most of the time the Voodoo Manipulator is not in a position where I can scare the enemy into the Reaper (ie I would need Lure) So, I guess I prefer expel because of the options it gives me in my warband... but I can see how the Voodoo manipulator could be better in others. | |
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bshugg
Underboss
1775 Posts
| | 08/06/2006 5:43 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by XAos
Thunder Sultan has been on most "top-20" lists for a while.
The question that interests me at the moment, is;
If your warband only has space for a Thunder Sultan or a Voodoo Manipulator (but not both) which one would you include ?
I will parrot what the others say: It depends.
For me the Voodoo on its own has more raw power. With no outside influences Scare is much stronger than expel. Expel sends a figure out of an engage square where it can just move back in, but Scare can keep a figure away from combat completely. Especially since most turns are only 1 move and 1 swing. You force your opponent to never reach combat, use a special effect to advance him or give up a complete turn of attacks to make any sort of progress. Thats way powerful! Expel however gets stronger based on other effects. If you combine it with a fleshless reaper it definatly rises in power. I have my concerns of the general playability of the reaper on its own though. As stand alones the Voodoo is just more overall useful. Depending on the position and warband configuration, Thunder sultant can be more dominant.
Note that spawn phase expel is a weaker effect that blade expel. With an expel during combat you can actually get more combats off, while spawn phase expels are less useful in what they can accomplish.
For me the first choice is Voodoo, then the second slot is a thunder sultan, then the third is probably another voodoo. Thats a lot of spawn effects though. | |
Looking for someone to cosponser a midwest DDM event. let me know if your interested!
Check out my brand new blog:
http://bshugg.blogspot.com | |
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Ridureyu
Underboss
1617 Posts
| | 08/12/2006 5:12 PM |
| I do agree - the Voodoo can keep enemies out of battle. the Thunder Sultan is very good when there are several combats close to each other. In the last game I played, I used a THunder Sultan to move an Acolyte of Loss away from the cell with the Iron Thug and into another combat cell, forcing it and a Pick-Pick to stay in combat with somebody else. The Iron Thug was from that point on crippled because it was the only one in its cell with a blade ability.
THAT is a great use of Expel. or if you have initiative, you can expel a bodyguard away, smash the other guys, and then wait. | |
Owner of The Original Rust Monsters!
DDM: Harbinger: 76/80 Dragoneye: 60/60 Archfiends: 56/60 GoL: 72/72 Aberrations: 60/60 Deathknell: 60/60 Angelfire: 60/60 Underdark: 60/60 War Drums: 60/60 War of the Dragon Queen: 60/60 Blood War: 60/60, Unhallowed: 60/60 Night Below: 60/60 Desert of Desolation: 60/60 Dungeons of Dread: 60/60 Against the Giants: 24/60
Dreamblade: All | |
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Orc Mage
Skirmisher
23 Posts
| | 08/15/2006 1:06 AM |
| Thunder Sultan also works well with B'Hammer Avenger. I have used it with a Fleshless Reaper and Pearlthorn. For 2 Spawn Points you get to untie the Avenger, Expel into the reaper and then drag the Avenger in behind it. Twelve attack dice with no chance of a deathblow because it is still in the spawn phase. Of course the down-side to all of these figures is the risk of someone rolling a 1 which IMHO makes them less than tier one as individual figures but within the right warband .... | |
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Shivan Darkeyes
Warrior
266 Posts
| | 08/15/2006 9:22 AM |
| Including both a Brighthammer Avenger AND a Fleshless Reaper in your army might make it difficult to actually kill things if you whiff with your Ambush/Charge which is why I can't really see myself playing an army with both.
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13th Place at the 2005 DDM Championship in GenCon | |
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Orc Mage
Skirmisher
23 Posts
| | 08/17/2006 11:04 AM |
| I'd almost have to agree with you, much of course depends on the rest of the war-band. I'm noticing though that games more often finish with unused figures, meaning that a couple of options as a back-up are not out of the question. If circumstances allow you to bring the back-up figures in for a particular match-up then all the better. I'm not convinced that in DB having one approach is the answer, keeping your oponent guessing about what's coming next is a useful tool in itself. If they're looking at your reserves and trying to second guess what will happen next, you already have an advantage. Just mho | |
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Lachlarlan_the_Mad
Sergeant
470 Posts
| | 08/17/2006 11:55 AM |
| Heartsblood Temple + Whirlwind Dervish Teleport to the row 3 column 3 and spawn a Heartsblood Temple. You'll be getting the 2 extra spawn points most of the rest of the game after that. Even better 2xHeartsblood Temple + Whirlwind Dervish. Do the same thing but spawn the Temples on row 3 columns 2 + 4. You're pretty much guaranteed 2 bonus spawn points, 4 if your opponent isn't careful. | |
Champion of the Mimic; Knight of the Caryatid Column
Called Shots: Unhallowed - Tomb Mote
Vindicated Called Shots: Blood Wars - Solar
Aberrations 60/60, Deathknell 60/60, Angelfire 60/60, Underdark 60/60, Wardrums 60/60, WotDQ 60/60 | |
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Dapuma
Sneak
99 Posts
| | 08/18/2006 9:27 AM |
| What is a non-portal square for the whirling dervish. I just got two of him, and he seems pretty nice. Why is Eater of Hope not in the top tier if what I am thinking can happen you can sacrifice a regen scissors to the eater and then regen him and get him out to start punishing people. He has pretty good stats. Out of the tier1 units...what pieces are you likely to running 3 of? | |
More trade references:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=566273 | |
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evilmerlin
Skirmisher
42 Posts
| | 08/18/2006 2:43 PM |
| When you sacrifice something to the Appease ability, it goes straight to the graveyard. No regenerating then.
As to why it is in the top tier, well people tend to value movement abilities alot right now and the Dreadmorph Ogre is in the same slot as the Eater of Hope. The Dreadmorph comes with a MB: Expel, good Power and good Defence/Life so people tend to take the Dreadmorph ALOT more often than the Eater of Hope.
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XAos
Underboss
2358 Posts
London
| | 08/19/2006 3:43 AM |
| [QUOTE]evilmerlin wrote
As to why it is in the top tier, well people tend to value movement abilities alot right now and the Dreadmorph Ogre is in the same slot as the Eater of Hope.[/QUOTE] I think evilmerlin got it in one. However good a unit is, if there is another unit that fills the same tactical slot & is a bit better, Then the weaker unit gets bumped into tier-2. If the stronger unit is also more expensive then both might remain tier-1 but the Dreadmorph is almost the same cost 11 to 10+appease. If they were in different factions that might keep both tier-1. But these two are both "Fear". | |
Don't worry about the current metagame. It doesn't matter if it's ugly, bad, or the best ever. In 2 years time, set rotation will ban everything. | |
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Lachlarlan_the_Mad
Sergeant
470 Posts
| | 08/20/2006 4:50 PM |
| [QUOTE]Dapuma wrote
What is a non-portal square for the whirling dervish. [/QUOTE] Any Cell that isn't a Portal. | |
Champion of the Mimic; Knight of the Caryatid Column
Called Shots: Unhallowed - Tomb Mote
Vindicated Called Shots: Blood Wars - Solar
Aberrations 60/60, Deathknell 60/60, Angelfire 60/60, Underdark 60/60, Wardrums 60/60, WotDQ 60/60 | |
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