XAos
Underboss
2378 Posts
    
London
 | | 10/17/2006 2:47 AM |
| I have been trying to build a warband which actually uses energise, so far this is my best shot...
Passion
Bloodthirsty Redcap
Heartsblood Temple
Fear
Cannibal pariah
Barbstrider x2
Knight of Pain & Sorrow
Eater of Hope
Dreadmorph Ogre x2
Fleshless Reaper
Voodoo Manipulator
Valor
Hawk-eyed Instigator x2
Inspired Samurai x2
Madness
Dark Heart Cottage
Any suggestions ???
Note; this warband is highly experimental, so I expect a few negative comments about it...
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Don't worry about the current metagame. It doesn't matter if it's ugly, bad, or the best ever. In 2 years time, set rotation will ban everything. | |
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Tarew
Skirmisher
9 Posts
| | 10/17/2006 6:57 AM |
| Heh, that warband looks a lot like the Passion of the Reapers band that won the Chicago 10k. It's quite popular actually so if you're looking for an original concept, you might want to try something else 
The top 8 bands from that event are on the wizards website.
I'll refer you to Robert Hatch's band and Corey Ivy's band for suggestions. | | | |
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XAos
Underboss
2378 Posts
London
| | 10/17/2006 9:30 AM |
| A couple of interesting options from those matches;
1) 2 fleshless Reapers instead of a DHC + 1 Reaper. A DHC is more flexible (reinforce anywhere, supports anything) But a pair of reapers are mobile while a DHC+Reaper is static. Still I think I can claim spawning a 6MMM unit with no other madness in the warband is "Origional".
2) The Alluring Succubus instead of the Bloodthirsty Redcap. Costs more. but a nastier option with the reapers. I suspect the Redcap still has the edge, for early spawning of the heartsblood temples...
3) Given the preponderance of Heartsblood temples, I'm surprised no Slaughter Boots were played. | |
Don't worry about the current metagame. It doesn't matter if it's ugly, bad, or the best ever. In 2 years time, set rotation will ban everything. | |
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DMG
Sneak
107 Posts
Dallas
| | 10/17/2006 2:09 PM |
| I'd probably try to work in another Heartsblood. You could easily drop a Hawkeye or Samurai for the slot and not adversly affect the way your band runs and you'd more quickly gain access to the power of your band which IMO is the Ogres. I play 2 Ogres as well and the quicker they hit - the quicker you can control the board = win.
Xaos - do you play on Vassal? I'd love to see what this band can do. | | | |
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Faragdar the Wise
Commander
3456 Posts
Albuquerque, NM, USA
| | 10/17/2006 4:47 PM |
| I'm curious about a couple of things. Why the samurai? You don't have much in your band with the kind of vulnerability that needs bodyguards to protect them. Also, why 2 Barbstriders? I've seen those most effectively used as appeasement creatures, but you only have one figure with appease. Seems like there are better options for a cheap figure in the band. Is the Knight of Pain & Sorrow such a good idea? Sure, there's lots of valor out there, but lots of them are chessmaster, who can often just move your Knight out of the way to free up valor blades to work, and you have to worry about keeping her separate from your own Hawk-eyed Instigators.
Two Heartsblood Temples is interesting, but the cottage and temple synergize well. The Darkheart Cottage is great right in the middle of the board with your Fleshless Reaper, if you can get control of that cell. The Heartsblood Temple, on the other hand, is great in your opponent's 4-cell. | |
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XAos
Underboss
2378 Posts
London
| | 10/18/2006 5:39 AM |
| Bodyguards; Mainly they are a cheap valor creature to reduce the cost of spawning the Hawk-eyed instigators. It's surprising how few cheap Valor units are worth playing (Scarab & Samurai) They protect the Dreadmorph Ogres. I know that 13 life doesn't seem to need protecting. But if your opponent has to roll 18 hits to destroy them they move from being very difficult to destroy to nearly impossible. And if both Ogres get destroyed the warband has basically lost. H'm I did wonder if a better solution to that was to play 4xDreadmorph Ogres. But my opponent would probably notice I was breaking the rules.
Knight of Pain & Sorrow is an alternative for the first turn spawn when a 9 or 10 is rolled. The option to spawn 3 fear creatures on most 7+ spawn rolls, gives better odds of getting the Voodoo Manipulator out quickly. An alternative would be a Zombie Enforcer.
These 3 creatures do two things for the warband, (a) they slightly accelerate it's deployment. (b) once on the board they slow down the opponents attack. Enemy uniits can deal with them, but unless your opponents dice are very lucky there is a perceptable delay while they do it.
My current opinion on Barbstrider is that it's overall as good as the Cannibal Pariah. Inciter is bad, but only a serious problem if the Barbstrider gets caught in a large combat with multiple creatures on both sides. And oponents will often disrupt a Barbstrider, either to avoid the deathblow or in the hope of exploiting inciter later in the game. Net effect is that a Cannibal Pariah is never a liabilty, but rarely achieves a positive result before it dies. The Barbstriders can sometimes be a liability but usually kills soemthing when they die. Mixing both units in one warband, gives me the choice of which cells to deploy the 2 types of units in.
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Don't worry about the current metagame. It doesn't matter if it's ugly, bad, or the best ever. In 2 years time, set rotation will ban everything. | |
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DMG
Sneak
107 Posts
Dallas
| | 10/18/2006 9:48 AM |
| The Samurais fail on three fronts for me...
a) they dont DO anything. Their ability is a passive one.
b) their 1 power contribution to the fight is neglibible
c) in light of a) & b) I consider them too expensive
Now I will add that I have never seen them played skillfullly - so I am willing to change my opinion.
But even considering well played Samurais I think the Ogres benifit more from a Warcharm if you are including Valor.
The KoSP I think is unnecessary because you already have the aspect cost of the Voodoo coverd by the Pariahs and Striders. In its place you could add a 4 drop creature - possibly of the Madness flavor. Maybe an Escapee for utility or a JitB for power. On a spawn of 9 you still waste a couple but on 10 you're golden. Plus then the DHC comes out a little easier. IMO its better to waste spawn points than spawn a creature that isnt going to contribute much.
As to the Striders - well, you mentioned it already. I love to see my opponent bring Striders cuz I know I will benefit from them and am saddened when they are Appeased or I am forced to kill them. I think Pariahs are better because they are a bit harder to displace and they do not assist your opponent.
I guess my version of your band would look like this probably...
3x Cannibal Pariahs
1x Redcap
1x Heartsblood Temple
1x Asylum Escapee
2x Scarab Warcharms
1x Nevret Screamtrooper or KoAG
1x DHC
1X Hawkeye
1x Reaper
1x Voodoo
1x Eater of Hope or Thunder Sultan
2x Ogre
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XAos
Underboss
2378 Posts
London
| | 10/19/2006 1:06 AM |
| I certainly agree with (a) & (b) Not sure about "c) in light of a) & b) I consider them too expensive" It really is impresivly hard to damage a Dreadmorph+Samurai. Certainly the Scarabs would be better than the Samurai (except in rare circumstances) But I'm loaniing my Scarabs to a friend for the next 1K tournament so they can't be in this warband.
Nevret Screamtrooper & KoAG are not my favourite pieces. Spawn-6 is an unlikly roll, I either try to skip the spot entirely or just use a single Lunar Handmaiden.
More interesting IMO for a small madness creature would be an Ego Cannibal. Once Baxar's is out the Chaos Puppeteer or Gent will become "must haves" for madness filler.
Is there any delay between Baxar's being on sale & it being legal in constructed tournamanets ?
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Don't worry about the current metagame. It doesn't matter if it's ugly, bad, or the best ever. In 2 years time, set rotation will ban everything. | |
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DMG
Sneak
107 Posts
Dallas
| | 10/19/2006 2:33 PM |
| Is there any delay between Baxar's being on sale & it being legal in constructed tournamanets ?
Nope - even if your tourney (constructed) is on the day of release - the figures are legal. | | | |
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XAos
Underboss
2378 Posts
London
| | 10/20/2006 2:42 AM |
| Thanks for the advice guys
I redesigned & and it's awhole lot nastier than it started will let you know how it does in the next 1K tournament (tommorow).
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Don't worry about the current metagame. It doesn't matter if it's ugly, bad, or the best ever. In 2 years time, set rotation will ban everything. | |
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krilvyn
Skirmisher
2 Posts
| | 10/20/2006 5:14 AM |
| Posted By DMG on 10/19/2006 2:33 PM Is there any delay between Baxar's being on sale & it being legal in constructed tournamanets ?
Nope - even if your tourney (constructed) is on the day of release - the figures are legal.
Actually, that's not quite true... they are legal for limited/sealed tournaments on the day they are released. But they are not legal for constructed until 2 weeks after release. With an official release date of Oct. 27, Baxar's pieces will be legal for constructed starting on Nov. 10.
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
6714 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 10/20/2006 7:26 AM |
| Posted By krilvyn on 10/20/2006 5:14 AM Posted By DMG on 10/19/2006 2:33 PM Is there any delay between Baxar's being on sale & it being legal in constructed tournamanets ?
Nope - even if your tourney (constructed) is on the day of release - the figures are legal. Actually, that's not quite true... they are legal for limited/sealed tournaments on the day they are released. But they are not legal for constructed until 2 weeks after release. With an official release date of Oct. 27, Baxar's pieces will be legal for constructed starting on Nov. 10.
Baxars war is legal as of Nov. 10th, per the floor rules...
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XAos
Underboss
2378 Posts
London
| | 10/20/2006 11:20 AM |
| Thanks for giving that last question your best shot guys, I searched for the DCI floor rules...
Set Name: Limited Formats: Constructed Formats:
Base Set August 9, 2006 August 23, 2006
Set 2 October 27, 2006 November 10, 2006
Set 3 January 19, 2007 February 2, 2007
Set 4 April 20, 2007 May 4, 2007
Set 5 July 27, 2007 August 10, 2007
Set 6 October 19, 2007 November 2, 2007
So the correct answer is November 10th.
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Don't worry about the current metagame. It doesn't matter if it's ugly, bad, or the best ever. In 2 years time, set rotation will ban everything. | |
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Ridureyu
Underboss
1622 Posts
| | 10/20/2006 3:26 PM |
| | That's pretty close to what Robert Hatch played, actually. | |
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XAos
Underboss
2378 Posts
London
| | 10/21/2006 12:55 PM |
| My modified warband was;
2 Fleshless Reapers
2 Draedmorph Ogres
2 Voodoo Manipulators
2 Heartsblood Temples
2 Cannibal Pariahs
2 Inspired Samurai
1 Bloodthirstry Redcap
1 Pearlthorn castle
1 Hawk-eyed Instigator
1 Barbstrider
Which made the top 4 in a 1K event with 24 players.
Removed the Eater of Hope because it directly competes with the Voodoo manipulators for the spawn-10 spot.
I noticed that a "complaint" on the chicago 10K thread was "once my voodoo manipulator was destroyed I had essentially lost" Obvious solution,Two voodoo manipulators.
Things I'd change;
Definatly switch back to two barnbstriders. Cannibal pariah has no virtues except being cheap.
Replace the Pearlthorn Castle, with 2 other locations to spawn, it's not usefull to this warband till late in the game.
Put back the Knight of Pain & Sorrow, the warband badly needs a "speedbump" to hold the enemy warband, until the heartsblood Temples create a numerical superiority. And Knight Of Pain & sorrow has a usefull roll in that stage of the game. Might even use an Accolyte of Loss ?
I'm not sure why players are using this warband with only 2 Dreadmorph Ogres, surely 3 woud be stronger. And the bodyguards were usefull with this force. Whether Scarabs would have been more or less usefull will be forever lost in the mists of alternative eigen vectors. At least one of my opponents kept rolling 7 damage. Which would have obliterated a pair of Scarabs but only disrupted the Samurai.
With Baxar's legal in constructed in only 3 weeks, theres not a lot of time to exploit linear developments of this warband. And Baxar's will surely require complete redesigns. An obvious improvent with Baxar's is to add 2xClawclan Scouts. | |
Don't worry about the current metagame. It doesn't matter if it's ugly, bad, or the best ever. In 2 years time, set rotation will ban everything. | |
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