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Faragdar the Wise
Commander
3444 Posts
    
Albuquerque, NM, USA
 | | 11/09/2006 8:22 AM |
| As long as I understand the interaction between the Dearkheart Cottage and a creature with warpstrike (a warpstriking creature in the same cell with the cottage gets the bonus when making a warpstrike), I think this could be the basis for a very strong band:
Spellbound Scissors x2
Cannibal Pariah
Pick-Pick x2
Scarab Warcharm
Book of Nothing x2
Jack-in-the-Box
Jack of Blades Gent x2
Darkheart Cottage
Fleshless Reaper
Voodoo Manipulator
Thunder Sultan
It's a modified version of "Deathtrap 2", as described in a WotC article. The Gent makes warpstrike/Darkheart Cottage a viable and dangerous combo, I think. The idea is to establish yourself with Darkheart Cottage, Fleshless Reaper, Book of Nothing and 2 Gents in one scoring cell. You're going to immediately want to warpstrike to eliminate any creatures with lure (Infernal Gothic) and scare. The Scarab Warcharm is to help you get the Fleshless Reaper back into the deathtrap if he gets scared or lured out (though there are less expensive options, if you, like me, don't have a warcharm). The Voodoo Manipulator and Thunder Sultan help you to either feed soft enemies to the deathtrap or keep more dangerous enemies away.
I dropped the Dreadmorph Ogre because the Gent, Voodoo Manipulator and Thunder Sultan will be chewing through spawn points, so you want to stay away from expensive creatures, and the key to this band is protecting the warpstrike combo, rather than feeding your enemy into the deathtrap (though that should be done when it's advantageous).
I'm thinking about whether this band needs a Heart Thief. I'm not sure who I would drop, though, if I did that. It would take some testing to see if the sultan or manipulator wasn't carrying its weight. Dropping one Book of Nothing could be done, but I think that's risky, given the vulnerability of the book. I like the idea of a backup. I've also considered whether an All-seeing Mage might be a better investment.
I dropped the Heartsblood Temple. The author made a good case for it being in Deathtrap 2, but I think this band can handle being without it, because it's not at all critical which scoring cell you make into your deathtrap. Use the closest one and you can probably set up quickly enough without the extra spawn.
Any thoughts about what you would do differently? | |
"Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish." - Albert Einstein
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DMG
Sneak
107 Posts
Dallas
| | 11/09/2006 1:04 PM |
| Yeah - I would dump the BoN's, which are exceedingly difficult to keep in a scoring cell, for Ootolok's. Stray Warpstrike is scary enough for your opponent but if you add the DHC to it then you have something - better than a BoN anyday. More expensive I know but also stays alive longer.
I 'd either split your 3 slot with a Chaos puppeteeer and a Pick Pick or simply go with 2 puppeteers - really nice for shifting your opponents creatures onto your DHC. The only reason I can see fielding a Pick Pick is if you plan on fighting with them - otherwise I'd rather have the option of Vortex which is amazingly powerful.
If you are going to splash osomthing I'd splash a Passion piece like Alluring Succubus or Infernal Gothic which can help you pull things into your trap. And also synergizes well with the Gent. Hell, why not 3 Gents - upping your chances to get the combos off because they are very easy to dislodge from a scoring position.
Also a Valor piece that synergizes well with the Puppeteer is PTC. Plus if your opponent is dislodging the Reaper he is probably working well toward killing it so I dont think the Warcharm is going to help much IMO.
So here's the band the way I would play it...
1x SBS
2x Chaos Puppeteer
2x Canibbal Pariah
1x Jack in the Box
3x Gent
2x Ootolok
1x DHC
1x Infernal Gothic or Alluring Succubus
1x Voodoo Man.
1x Fleshless Reaper
1x Thunder Sultan
Fun stuff there - I may have to try it out. Ootolok is just plain awesomly fun. | | | |
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Faragdar the Wise
Commander
3444 Posts
Albuquerque, NM, USA
| | 11/09/2006 1:20 PM |
| | I considered the Chaos Puppeteer, but I think that would be a bad addition to the band. It works against the strategy I intend for this crew (and an enemy puppeteer would be a real pain). My warpstriker and accompanying Gents need to stay with the Darkheart Cottage to do any good. For that matter, so does the reaper. Vortex screws all that up unless my deathtrap is in the center cell, and I wouldn't want to be forced into that. I considered 3 Gents. I'd just have to drop something. I also considered the Infernal Gothic, but I wonder if the band would suffer with a change of focus for the reaper from protecting the warpstriker to feeding enemies to be chopped up by the reaper. My thought was that the warpstriker become the meat and potatoes of the band, powered by the Gents. I thought about the Ootolok, but stray warpstrike is too big a drawback for this band, I think--every warpstrike has to be made to count, and a stray warpstrike means your opponent gets to force you to waste tons of power on weenie targets. | |
"Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish." - Albert Einstein
Champion of Myopic Half-Orcs
Winner, WBC X | |
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DMG
Sneak
107 Posts
Dallas
| | 11/09/2006 2:02 PM |
| Hmm - I have to disagree that the Reaper and Puppeteer are at odds focus wise. First of all if you vortex - the Reaper abmushes everyone in his cell. Secondly, Lets say your DHC is in your nearest 1 point scoring cell, you have 2 Gents and Ootolok and the Puppeteer there as well. But your opponents Ragedrake is sitting in the center cell and he just won init. with out that Vortex you are thouroughly screwed. So you Stay Warpstrike 2 times then Vortex and now your out of harms way for another turn - then if he's foolish enough to stand something on the DHC you move in and possibly get another Stray Warpstrike.
The Stray warpstrike is more than just a weenie killer. What if that weenie is in positon to win him a turn?? He either gives it up or targets something a little more important. Or as in the example above what if you Stray warpstrike 3 times in one turn - it gets interesting fast. And his survivablity blows away the BoN which takes minimal effeort to disrupt/kill.
Give him a try before you decide not to use him I think you'll be pleasantly surprised - if you can successfully get the combo set up that is. | | | |
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Faragdar the Wise
Commander
3444 Posts
Albuquerque, NM, USA
| | 11/09/2006 3:18 PM |
| Something else to consider with stray warpstrike--a bodyguard completely nerfs it. Your opponent can choose one of his pieces in the same cell with a bodyguard as the target of the warpstrike. Problem is that you can't assign damage from the warpstrike to the target, because bodyguard prevents you from doing so until you assign enough damage to disrupt or destroy the bodyguard. But you can't assign any damage to the bodyguard because it isn't the target of the warpstrike. Result is that the warpstrike fizzles. That and weenie-wasted warpstrikes will, I think, relegate the Ootolok to the trash heap.
I see your point with the Puppeteer. It's probably worth using one in place of a Pick-pick for unusual situations like you describe. It could pull the Reaper's butt out of a fire, and, like you said, I can warpstrike first and always shift back to the cell with the Cottage.
As far as the vulnerability of the Book of Nothing, it is a worry, but my strategy would be simply to all-out prevent any strikes against him. If testing shows that isn't a reliable strategy, it's probably worth switching to a Gun-possessed killer and/or Doomsinger for more survivability. At first, I didn't think they'd be a good idea because of single blade warpstrikes, but I don't think it matters with the Gent. If you have 3 Gents in the same cell with either warpstriker, I see nothing to prevent you from activating each Gent's edgemaker ability to generate 3 warpstrikes with the same single blade warpstrike.
Oh, and I'm keen on extra Spellbound Scissors instead of Cannibal Pariahs because I want my weenies to stay available to power the Cottage. I don't need the spawn points from a destroyed Pariah so much, because this band doesn't have any high-spawn pieces. | |
"Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish." - Albert Einstein
Champion of Myopic Half-Orcs
Winner, WBC X | |
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DMG
Sneak
107 Posts
Dallas
| | 11/10/2006 7:23 AM |
| Yes - a bodyguard completely nerfs the Ootolok - I understand that. But bodygards are so popular that I have never, since Dreamblade came out, played against one. At tournaments, where you think the best pieces in the game will appear, I have never seen one (granted I havent made more than a handful of tourneys). They dont appear in the metagame on Vassal that I have ever seen (I watch and play on Vassal almost every day) and the bands winning all the big tournaments of late have exactly zero bodyguards.
Dont misunderstand - I am not touting the Ootolok as some all powerful figure that must be included but I would never run a BoN - they are just too fragile. You say you'll make an all out effort to protect him - but what if your opponent makes an all out effort to kill him (which would be a good idea if he's sitting on a DHC with a Gent).
I guess I am simply biased - the BoN has a powerful ability that, in my experience, usually ends up in the graveyard rather quickly. His price makes him attractive but his stats make him a liability and a short-lived gamble IMO.Â
Please though - I would love to hear how testing goes. Do you play on Vassal at all? | | | |
| Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
6247 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 11/10/2006 9:56 AM |
| Try Decapitrix. her warpstrike is one less, but with DHC pumping the size, it may well not matter. plus, she's a lot easier to keep alive.
Second, if you avoid vortex, and place Gent, Warpstriker, and reaper on the DHC cell, there's not a lot that can go into that cell and live. You pretty much only have to fear a Voodoo Manipulator, Vortex, and lure pieces. Also, you're opponent must win initiative to nerf it, and they're not going after your reaper. By going second, it leaves you in a generally better position to take the turn. Sounds like a good, strong combo to me. I'm interested to see how it plays out. Please keep us up to date.
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Prince o the Raven Banner
Sergeant
606 Posts
| | 11/13/2006 11:14 PM |
| Wouldn't a Puppeteer on your side counter theirs? It is worth thinking on.
I agree the Ooktolok is an interesting alternative but nerfable. I do play against Bodyguards, frequently. However the stray Warpstrike is nerve wracking on some opponents, deciding whether to lose cell holders, blade contributors, board control weenies or risk a fatty. This has a certain psychological advantage.
I would maybe drop one BoN for a Doomsinger. A little more survivable plus I am pretty sure the Gents don't need multi=blades for the Edgemaker to trigger off the same figure. Use the Book early when spawn is low, bring the Doomsinger out latter.
I haven't tried out Decapitrix yet.
I would avoid All Seeing Mages. They are ruthless in multi-Janus bands, but I wonder if the DHC will give them juice if no other Janus are Nearby? Also they disrupt as easily as BoN at nearly twice the cost. | |
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Herald Of Snig Goblin King | |
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XAos
Underboss
2361 Posts
London
| | 11/14/2006 2:08 AM |
| I've been considering which warstriker is best for a while.
The BoN is only a good choice if your playing Baxar. When it's cheap cost to play with Baxar should compensate for the ease of destroying it.
Without Baxar the Decapatrix should be better at a DHC.
As DMG said, you don't see a lot of Bodyguards in tournament play so an Ooktolok could work. One Ooktolok & one Decapatrix should give tactical flexibility during play.
And I would always choose the Chaos Puppeteer in preference to the Pick-Pick. Thats sufficiently clear that I no longer own any pick-picks.
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Don't worry about the current metagame. It doesn't matter if it's ugly, bad, or the best ever. In 2 years time, set rotation will ban everything. | |
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