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infocorn
Skirmisher
29 Posts
    
Hermitage, PA
 | | 05/08/2007 3:23 PM |
| So, here's a question.
Has anyone else, in real-life and/or on here, managed to win once or less lifetime? I gotta tell you, for as much as I play for the fun of the game, I'm sick to death of losing every damn time.
Real-world me early on got smashed by my opponents pinning me with big-bads in their 3-, 4-, and 5-point cells. I thought that I'd taken a good hard look at how that shapes my game play, and I think I've done better when I'm able to.
About all that's left as an excuse is that it's some kinda warband thing. Over the rest of the night, I'm going to post my current crop of bands. I thought that I've really taken a good amount of time with each, scouring what I had vs. what I could afford after-market, and buying individual minis as needed/inspired. Any and all brutal honesty is expected in this thread, and I swear (for what it's worth) not to take anything said personally. Please don't make me my own threadkiller too, as I know I'm way too bush-league to even submit stuff for the Wizards.com forums. My God, they'd just devour me, come to my home, and take my minis to keep a scrub like me from tarnishing the game.
Also, if I get to it, I might just offer a list of everything that I have in my collection for additional "have you tried this" kinda help.
PS: Djinni, this has nothing to do with you. I swear.
Here's my current band for the league. I stuck with my real-world haves, with only a few minor changes:
01 Baxar the Soulsticher
02 Acolyte of Loss
03 Walking Worms
04 Walking Worms (real life: only have one)
05 Carrion Spiker
06 Carrion Spiker
07 Hunter-Killer
08 Citadel of Torture
09 Buzzclaw
10 Buzzclaw
11 Hazedrin Grenadier
12 Hazedrin Grenadier
13 Knight of Autumn Gate
14 Knight of Autumn Gate
15 Rainforest Shaman
16 Rainforest Shaman
17 Butcher
18 Butcher
19 Gutsoup Golem
20 Gutsoup Golem
Thanks. | |
So this is where some deeply meaningful song lyrics or fake awards of mine go, right? | |
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Blacksnake Whip
Sneak
53 Posts
Stillwater, Oklahoma
| | 05/08/2007 3:47 PM |
| Firstly, I know exactly how you feel. Nobody likes losing games, and especially consecutive games (losing streaks can be very frustrating, humiliating and humbling). Don't get frustrated to the point of quitting, as I've often been tempted to do. I recently dropped out of the KC 10K after going 1-5 of 8 rounds; my only win was a BYE and believe me, I've never felt like such a loser in my life as I was leaving the convention room. But after dinner, later that night, I chuckled to myself and decided maybe I'm not tournament material. I'm perfectly happy to be a casual player and just have fun.
Secondly, I think you're being waaay too hard on yourself. If I can post on the Wizards forums and be taken halfway seriously, then I know you can, too. It's an excellent way to become a better player: post your questions and ask for advice on those forums. The world's best players frequent those boards, and they are more than willing to share their knowledge and help an earnest seeker of help become a better player. They love the game and love to see the bar raising as more and more people come onboard and improve their games.
Okay, enough pep talk. You want contructive help, and I'm anxious to see what kind you get from the fine players here 'cuz it's bound to help me out, too.
Oh, one other thing: don't be ashamed to net-build! I've used the bands of top-tier players and found it to be an amazing way to widen my comprehension of strategies and warband synergy. It's improved my ability to construct my own bands. I'm a long way from being on the same level as Hatch or Black or any of those guys (let's face it, I won't ever be able to contend with them because they simply think on a whole different level), but using their bands has done wonders for my game -- it's great to actually win a game here and there. | | | |
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Thespian
Sergeant
442 Posts
Lethbridge, Alberta
| | 05/08/2007 4:42 PM |
| Infocorn....Losing sucks. If you are starting out, I would take the advice of Blacksnake here. The idea is that you can learn a lot from playing a solid pre-built band that someone else has tested. Play with it for a while (like a dozen STRAIGHT games) to find out WHAT makes it so good. I really think that you can then start building your own band, or tweaking the one you started with in a minor way. They say that being able to analyze, evaluate and internalize these rules takes a very solid knowledge of how the game is played. Play some of those bands and then get to know what makes them tick inside and out..... and if you still keep losing, come play me....!!! and if you STILL keep losing..... well, even a broken clock is right twice a day - your time will come... | |
A wand of silence means never having to say you're sorry.
CHAMPION OF THE ANNIS HAG!!! | |
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infocorn
Skirmisher
29 Posts
Hermitage, PA
| | 05/08/2007 5:47 PM |
| See, my issue with precon bands is that for me to assemble them anywhere but here requires money I surely don't have. I mean, I'm not eating ramen noodles and ketchup soup three a day, seven a week, but still. It's not a bad idea for here, and to some degree there's the whole "am I cheating" by doing that voice in my head.
That said, thanks for the advice.
I might clinic over at Wizards too...who knows. On top of the intimidation factor, I'm like a champion threadkiller-- even threads I start. Now that's low.
Here's another couple bands that I'd love some feeback on:
F/V
2x Jack of Blades
2x Lady of the Fang
1x Painsmash
1x Battleweaver
2x Mask Dancer
2x Knight of Strife and Joy
2x Knight of Tomorrow
2x Serraph
2x Sighless Eunuch
Notes: I brought in fear with this band to help sidestep the limitation of the Dancers and KS&J's defender ability. Painsmash was brought in as a bit of a gap-filler, but in a way, it's also a good one to tie up a contested cell as he's just tenacious to get off the board.
Madness/AB
1X Decapatrix
2x Doomsinger
2x Faceless Stalker
2x Nevret Warmaster
1x Pick-Pick
2x Skinless
2x Tattooed Squashbug
1x Unspeakable Brothers
2x Hunter-Killer
1x Wicked Carriage
Notes: Nothing flashy. A couple cheap weenies here and there to nuke my aspect requirements and the Carriiage to power some warpstrike action. Gutsoup would likely fit here too, but isn't in simply as he's part of another band of mine at present.
Bloodcuts
1x Bladehound
3x Blind Spikemauler
1x Thief of Last Chances
2x Warlust Satyr
1x Clawclan Scout
3x Kitsune
2x Raging Vanguard
1x Steelborn Lion
2x Twilight Scout
Note: again, nothing too flashy. Attempting to use Kitsune's attract ability with as much of the band as possible. The Spikemaulers fill the cheap weenie role here, and an early crit roll with them's been very handy.
Hellbred
2x Axemorph Demon
1x Boneblade Serpent
2x Boneclan Hunter
1x Demonic Dandy
1x Heart Render
2x Infernal Gothic
1x Nosferatrix
2x Blood-Ash Archer
1x Crypt Worm
1x Ekkyon Wayfarer
2x Hellshreiker
Note: As before, attempting some lineage fun here. In just typing this, I was thinking that one of the Axemorphs might easily be replaced with something cheaper, but not really sure just what yet.
Thoughts on any one/all? | |
So this is where some deeply meaningful song lyrics or fake awards of mine go, right? | |
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infocorn
Skirmisher
29 Posts
Hermitage, PA
| | 05/08/2007 5:51 PM |
| | Well...just g'head and nuke Kitsune from that band. Lame-ass. | |
So this is where some deeply meaningful song lyrics or fake awards of mine go, right? | |
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Jarrett
Sneak
51 Posts
Langley British Columbia
| | 05/08/2007 6:11 PM |
| Infocorn
Look at it as a long learning curve 
I recently drove 3hrs to a sealed 1K event only to get 3 booster filled with Passion pieces ( the ones I didn't want ) and got 1 win due to a bye. And even worse have been losing regularly to Thespian lately eeerrrr. lol.
I think the first thing you need to do on your builds is ask " what am I trying to accomplish here ???" I look at your build above and don't see what your trying to accomplish. I'm not a "pro" builder by any means, but find the task easier to accomplish by picking a focus ( a particular band/ability/piece ) and slowly go through and pick pieces I feel will inhance this focus. Use the full library on this site to build with.
I have six main builds saved here. 3 are builds with what I have in my box at home and 3 are where I want thiese builds to grow into. The first three let me practice online with what I do have so that when I show up at a event, I have had lots of practice time with the build. The second three let me see where my future build can go. It allows me to try different pieces out within my builds without having to purchase them. This way I spent my dollars on pieces I know will work and not pieces that will sit in a box.
Find someone who you can play with on a regular basis and talk builds with them. Even the big money pros have other players that they use as bouncing boards for there ideas, I have yet to see anyone take a win and not have team mates or buddies who helped them in the process of there builds. There lots of guys on this site that I've come across that are more than willing to help out a fellow player, take advantage of it. Im on almost every night and am always willing help.
Last comment,
Take a look at whats winning at the events, copy it here, play it here, learn what makes it tic and make changes to fit your play style.
There is no easy answer to make you a constant game winner overnight, but you have made the first correct move by making this post.
Take what is shared and work with it, your game will eventually turn around.
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infocorn
Skirmisher
29 Posts
Hermitage, PA
| | 05/08/2007 6:29 PM |
| Thanks Jarrett.
Quickly, where do you guys find what's been winning in constructed tourneys? The wizards.com page seems to focus on the booster draft winners, at least in my very very cursory search of it. | |
So this is where some deeply meaningful song lyrics or fake awards of mine go, right? | |
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Blacksnake Whip
Sneak
53 Posts
Stillwater, Oklahoma
| | 05/08/2007 7:33 PM |
| Posted By infocorn on 05/08/2007 6:29 PM
Thanks Jarrett.
Quickly, where do you guys find what's been winning in constructed tourneys? The wizards.com page seems to focus on the booster draft winners, at least in my very very cursory search of it.
Go the Wizards/Dreamblade site, then click on Tournaments and have a look at the Hartford, CT 10K report. This was the most recent 10K event, and the first 10K constructed (non-sealed) event that featured Anvilborn pieces. It's our first chance to see how Anvilborn has changed the top-tier bands. All the bands that placed in the top 8 are listed here. Look at them and compare them to the pieces you own. Try to copy them as closely as possible with what you have (I don't like playing online with pieces I don't actually own, either). PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO THE SPAWN CURVES. If the band calls for a piece that costs 8 spawn and you don't have that piece, try substituting the most sensible 8-spawn piece that you do own.
Practice, practice, practice. If you lose a game, don't worry. Don't try tweaking the band until you've played several games with it -- win or lose -- and can get your brain around its strengths and weaknesses. Once you've gotten a feel for it, you'll start seeing patterns in your games, times it would be great, for example, to be able to scare something or spur or shut down a particular enemy location that is a chronic pain in your butt.
Meanwhile, work on acquiring the pieces you need to make your band deadly. Trade for them, get on eBay or whatever, but some pieces are just fundamental to a competitive band. Pearlthorn Castle, Scarab Warcharm, Heartsblood Temple, etc. are all whatcha call "toolbox" pieces. An excellent resource I found is an article written by Sam Black called "The Field". Even though he wrote it before the release of Anvilborn, it is very enlightening insight to the six different warband strategies that dominate tournament play. You can find it in the Archives section on the Wizards/Dreamblade site. | | | |
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Scud-O
Sneak
117 Posts
| | 05/08/2007 8:56 PM |
| Another thing you can do is sit in and watch some games. Take notes and ask questions about why the players did things the way they did.
As far as general playing goes, the most common misstep is the MUST SHIFT-STRIKE. If you find that you are almost always shifting then striking, you may want to take a second and really look at your options. Would a Strike first allow you better position? Would a double shift ensure a turn victory?
Another thing I see a lot (and am sometimes guilty of) is the low-opportunity strike. Just because you CAN shift and strike doesn't always mean it's a good idea. You should always be rolling AT LEAST as many dice as your opponent has defense (or life, if you NEED the kill).
Also, watch where you disrupt things and the order in which you perform your disrupts. This can really help your overall play.
That's all I've got right now.
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infocorn
Skirmisher
29 Posts
Hermitage, PA
| | 05/09/2007 5:32 AM |
| All good tips, thanks. Scud, I learned about the shift-strike lockstep early and it's something I do ponder quite a bit, so thanks for the tip.
A comment earlier was that my bands don't seem to have a unifying strategy or seek to exploit the same. While I can see that point for my lineage bands (as it's true), I'd disagree. I'm looking to capitalize on some special attacks with the warpstrike mono-madness, looking to keep my graveyard as a resource for the Baxar league band, and attempting to use valor's uncanny knack for getting things where they need to go.
Now, admittedly, the Valor band isn't running a scarab or two and it's lacking for things that could benefit more from that movement-- getting stuff into attacks/scoring cells. The Baxar band seems a bit slow to get going and the Wookiees in it are marked for death almost instantly, and there's been no playtesting for the mono-madness as yet. Plus, there're other warpstrikers out there not included for the time being (Gun Behemoth and Book of Nothing spring quickly to mind, as does Tower of Faces)-- the current list attempted to get me fortunate pieces and the bonus blades from the Carriage paired with some quick weenie support to take the aspect cost away. I realise that aspect in a mono band isn't near the issue it can be in others, but still something to consider. | |
So this is where some deeply meaningful song lyrics or fake awards of mine go, right? | |
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infocorn
Skirmisher
29 Posts
Hermitage, PA
| | 05/09/2007 5:57 AM |
| | fyi, I posted my haves and (very modest?) wants list. There are some heavy hitters on my wants, as you can tell, but I tried not to get greedy. While I don't have folks to vouch for me on here, I do have emails of people I've gamed with and a solid Ebay rating in the 30s-- all buying. Just fyi. | |
So this is where some deeply meaningful song lyrics or fake awards of mine go, right? | |
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froffenhoffer
Sergeant
702 Posts
| | 05/18/2007 1:38 PM |
| Something I find very hard still and used to find very hard, is taking back from a losing start. If you are struggling and finding yourself fought back on your back row, then either
a) your playing the game wrong
b) the opponenents dice are rolling better than you
c) their band is focused at being faster than yours.
a) I cant help much with apart from playing conservatively early can help if your band cant rush fast. B) no one can help much with c) is something that you can act upon. If you find yourself in a position where their band is faster than you, and fighting back from this point is not something your particulalrlay good at (dont know if thats the case but from your first post that might be true) then try playing a weenie rush band yourself. IM not a particularly good player, but I find that I do better when I try and spam out early game and force them back or into the middle.
Therefore play something fast and either not complicated or something your comfortable playing with. I made 4th at a 1k with a crazy rogue build no one saw coming, as I made it fast and easy to play so that turning around a hard position wasnt something I had to focus on doing, which is very diffucult to do. My build was this:
2 x Spellbound Scissors
Claw Clan Scout
Seraph
2x Scarab warcharm
3x Virtous maiden (ok I appreciate these 5 rares might be hard to get)
1 of those swap places weird thingies-maybe called probability walker
Naga Broodqueen
Knight of S+J
Lunar Handmaiden
Hawk Eyed instigator
Valkyrie moonrider
Arch Of triumph
Its pretty solid, and quite easy to play. 1 note to make is it is often worth with this band taking temporary disadvantage to get a turn.. wins 6-0, 6-1, or not at all.. occasionly 6-2
One note is WATCH OUT FOR THOSE DARNED CYCLOPEAN SPRITES AND 1's ON INITIATIVE, THEY BOTH MAKE ME SOO MAD.
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Champion of Wildshaped druid in with natural spell!
Thus said froffenhoffer
The Official through the heart, and im to blame archer. | |
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