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PatEllis15
Commander
4462 Posts
    
 | | 03/15/2006 10:31 AM |
| quote:
I am probably going to check (especially since its not overlapping with the Championship) it out but it is very unlikely that I am going to drop DDM for it.
I'd be careful not to assume to much. The date given is the 12th, and Ifind it hard to believe that they would do the Grinder on Thursday, and Championships on Friday.
There will be overlap, but those who have 2 losses in the Championships by Noon, will probably know that they are out of the running, and "could" then jump on over to DB.
That is exactly how SWM and AAM worked at the last 2 GenCon's.
Pat E | |
"Games evolve. Otherwise we'd still be pushing rocks around the dirt. What do you think the cavemen said when some dude showed up with sticks?" - Chairman7w | |
| Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 03/15/2006 10:37 AM |
| Mike Donais said, earlier in the thread, "Ian made sure that the D&D Minis Championships don't overlap with the Dreamblade Championships so that you guys can play in both."
I am not making an assumption. | |
I am not gone. | |
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Vash
Underboss
1995 Posts
| | 03/15/2006 11:24 AM |
| I'm still on the fence about this new game. To me it's just another neat looking minis game to collect and display. And the look of a new game to try out intrigues me.
On the cash prize thing...I think some of you need to think a bit about why you got into DDM. If you plan on leaving DDM for the sole purpose of winning money at tournaments. Then I say good day to you [:P], you've obviously lost sight of the art and subculture that is DDM.
The type of people that a cash-prize system will draw will be a lot different than the already established community that DDM has. I don't see it as being so 'warm and fuzy', but a more cold and competitive group of people overall. I will say this, I won't be surprised if there are not warband/metagame discussion topics to go along with this game due to the fact of people not wanting to 'give away their secrets'. But we shall see. | |
Champion of the Alhoon and my called shot for Unhallowed
Blood War Called Shot: Phoenix
Trade withe me! | |
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
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Vash
Underboss
1995 Posts
| | 03/15/2006 11:44 AM |
| | OK, I do suppose that makes a bit of sence. I'll shut up now [:I] | |
Champion of the Alhoon and my called shot for Unhallowed
Blood War Called Shot: Phoenix
Trade withe me! | |
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kyrin
Commander
3152 Posts
| | 03/15/2006 11:45 AM |
| I am of two minds on Dreamblade. The little frog that sits on my left shoulder and babbles random words(*) gets coherent for a moment and tells me a story:
"Once upon a time, there was a game called the Primal Order. It was a game supplement actually: a set of rules for ascending to godhood. And a nice little set of rules it was, full of promise. It was put out by a fledgling gaming company called Wizards of the Coast. Then, after a few Primal Order books were put out, one of the guys at WoTC got this idea for a kooky little card game... and as resources were shuttled over to said kooky card game, the Primal Order died on the vine."
Now I tell the little frog to go away, because WoTC's a Big Boy now, and certainly they can devote resources to more than one minis project, right? RIGHT?
Then the little frog reminds me about Corporate America. That it is not enough to simply make money; one must make "enough" money. Projects and divisions that are quite profitable can get shut down because they don't make "enough" money.
And I flick the little frog off my shoulder.
Then the little cube that speaks in zeros and ones appears and gets coherent enough to make the point that Dreamblade might not be *that* successful. I mean, doesn't one of the attractions of Magic to young people lie in its portability? I mean, for every Mr. Suitcase I'm sure there are 10 or 20 people that just want something they can put in a backpack or their back pocket. Dreamblade won't do that for them. And if people want to play chess, won't they just... play chess? I mean, are there so many people out there that are looking for a fantasy-ish chess variant and/or "fabulous cash prizes" that they will make up for losing one of the three members of the "DDM triad?" And I'd bet a fabulous cash prize that that triad member (RPGers) constitutes the largest group.
I'm just not sure what their thinking is in releasing this line. Did their research reveal that people liked minis, but weren't skirmishing because the rules were too complex? Do they think that the success of DDM lies in the skirmish game, and not in the cross-over appeal to RPG? I must say, I am confused.
JIM
aka kyrin
(*) Blatant Order of the Stick ripoff. | |
My Have/Want List <-|-|->My Trades and References 1 <-|-|->My Trades and References 2
Pronounce "Drow" like "crow"! Viva la Revolution! We Shall Overcome!
Vindicated Champion of the Stirge! Vindicated Champion of the Githyanki Knight on Red Dragon!!
Vindicated Champion of the Androsphinx! | |
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johnny.quest
Underboss
1341 Posts
| | 03/15/2006 11:48 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Prince o the Raven Banner
One glaring thing has come to light on these 8 pages. WotC needs better support for the Mini games on a local level. The delegate program sounds like a good place to start but it seems that whole regions either lack delegates or have delegates that are woefully inadequet. Or worse yet are responsible for a territory so large no one person could be reasonably expected to cover it. I am not suggesting paying them, but an evaluation process would be a start.This could be added to DCI paperwork and filled out by the people that interact with that person. A prerequisite would be that every delegate should be at least a borderline Mini addict. If a delegate only plays MtG and doesn't even roleplay do they Qualify?
A seperate catagory of delegate might be called for with regard to the mini lines which require more than just a random demo here and there. We have several people on this forum and allready known to the community who have more than qualified for this type of position. Cash prizes, while nice, aren't really necessary. Corporate Gift Certificates would make a 1st place finish in a large tourney that much better. A "special" repaint given out by a delegate at a delegate run tourny would be a nice touch. And a cheap alternative as well to cash.
A bit of perspective on the Delegate Program: You're right that there are entire regions without delegates, and it's difficult for one delegate to be intensely involved in supporting even one game in an entire region, to say nothing of the entire WotC portfolio. Delegates are responsible for supporting all WotC games, and the purpose of the program is to bring in new players. Delegates don't run tournaments, unless they do it on their own time. I've suggested that delegates be supported in offering workshops/master classes/intensives on certain games for players who are already familiar, and the response has been that the delegate program isn't the place for that, and it may be something that OP develops. FLGS staff already fill out an evaluation/report for each demo given by a delegate. | | | |
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devasque
Sergeant
874 Posts
| | 03/15/2006 11:50 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by robby
Here is what is worriesome for me, from the standpoint of attracting new players (bolded):
Preview of Coming Events
- August 12, 2006 - $20,000 Release Championship at GenCon Indianapolis. (Sealed Format)
- August 2006 - Stores will be able to Sanction Dreamblade Tournaments with the DCI
- August 2006 - Edge Tournaments in stores
- September 2006 - Twenty 1K Tournaments every month in the U.S.
- September 2006 - One 10K Tournament every month in the U.S.
- August 2007 - $50,000 Dream Series Championship
Those tournaments aren't going to be held at conventions - they'll be held at FLGS all around the country, at least thats what it reads to me (I don't think there are 20 gaming conventions in each month).
$30K each month in prizes, no less. This will draw new players, and likely draw a fair amount of DDM players. It will certainly make it harder to draw new players in, and that is the lifeblood of any game.
Man, do I wish the DDM had support resembling that. I can't imagine how many new players $20K a month in prize support would generate.
My only bit of possible speculation would be to say the 10k once a month thing would be dispersed across the country. Not one each month at the same sites doing the 1k events. Sort of spreading the wealth like butter on toast. Maybe wrong but that's my take on it. | |
You see! There ARE others out there just like me. What? Why are laughing? | |
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Mindtrick
Warrior
233 Posts
| | 03/15/2006 11:53 AM |
| | One thing this new game will do for me is reduce the chances of DDM burnout. I like the fact that they will be starting DB during the DDM downtime this fall/winter. | |
**overlong signature deleted. Please see posting guidelines** | |
| Shining Knight
mdonais
Skirmisher
46 Posts
| | 03/15/2006 12:42 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by PatEllis15
I'd be careful not to assume to much. The date given is the 12th, and I find it hard to believe that they would do the Grinder on Thursday, and Championships on Friday.
There will be overlap, but those who have 2 losses in the Championships by Noon, will probably know that they are out of the running, and "could" then jump on over to DB.
That is exactly how SWM and AAM worked at the last 2 GenCon's.
Pat E
You are right about how SWM and AAM worked but I am told that Dreamblade will be different.
I am told the grinder will be on thursday and the championship will be on friday.
I haven't seen the schedule in writing yet but I have been told this in no uncertain terms by OP. So, you can play in both if you like. You will have to squeeze in practicing for Dreamblade after winning the championships though.
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Mike Donais
WotC R&D | |
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Ack
Underboss
1476 Posts
| | 03/15/2006 1:35 PM |
| Well.. Im still excited about a new game. Some of the folks I like and respect have stated they will be looking at the new game and trying it out. No one has stated they will jump ship for it.. tho Im sure some will.
They are trying to create a minis game that scales as well as MtG. I give them mad props for even TRYING to recreate that level of success. They arent doing it half-assed either. Go Wizards.
re: Delegates. There is currently alot of reshuffling around on the program (Im being told) and the "new and improved" delegate program will begin "soon". Im gonna imagine that anyone involved in the program is gonna be asked to pimp the hell outta this game and get excitement for it to a fever pitch. And since its a brand new game, Im imagining that the LGS are gonna want to have people come in and get demos so they BUY the game and play the game.
I have a great relationship with my LGS. I run all kinds of events there, Im judging minis events.. and Ive already talked with the owner about this game. He and I know we will both be trying it out. Hey.. there IS a competitive bone in my body.. its just buried deep in my skull (yes, Im a bone head! ha! I kill me).
So, what does this new game mean to me? a new set of tourneys to be involved in. a new set of toys to collect. a new hobby to bore my wife with discussions of. a new set of conversations with various people. new additions to the group of people at the FLGS. some of the magic players trying a game with "dolls". Its kind of exciting. a wholy new game that has some small ties into existing CMG and also MtG and VS (the Versus system - someone asked earlier - its an UpperDeck CCG system). Will it pull people away? Some. Will those who can only focus on one game play the one that can self-finance itself? Some. Will some of the highly competitive players leave DDM for a more "tourney friendly" game? Yep. Some of them will.
Its a shame Im at training this week and have very limited internet access.. i would love to be doing shorter posts making one point at a time andnot getting distracted. Im not sure this post makes much sense. | |
Minis... Serious Business
Completed Trades (18 ) | Pending Trades (0)
Ebay seller to Avoid –Fantasy_Quest_Dist
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grifter100
Skirmisher
48 Posts
| | 03/15/2006 6:37 PM |
| Well, everybody has their knickers all up in a bunch. Relax, guys! DDM isn´t finished, the top players won´t all wander off, the paintjobs won´t suffer and Dr. Doom isn´t going to take over the world anytime soon either. Although it is rather amusing to see some of the top players, very smart and thoughtfull posters all, talking completely out of their behinds for once.
WotC isn´t stealing your money by supporting a different game. You spend all the time and money on DDM because it´s fun, not because you want to make a living out of it. If the sudden revelation that you could make some more money by doing something else instead of playing DDM has hit you so hard, then by all means go and do something different! Just don´t play a game you don´t like because there´s some money to be made. There´s far more lucrative activities then playing a game you don´t like for a few hundred bucks every few months... | |
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Gunthar
Commander
2938 Posts
| | 03/15/2006 6:44 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Zaukrie
Just trying to lighten the mood. If you think I'm "up" about this, you should see me watching a Vikings game.
You should be cheering for the next team to the East anyway, we have tailgating that involves great food, not lake cruises. [)]
This does disappoint me greatly. DDM is the first, and probably only, "collectible" game I have participated in, and I started because of role-playing. Many of you know how I feel about "collectible" things. This is why it's hard to like anything put out by large corporations for recurring entertainment in a fad environment. Losing potential new players and old ones for the latest fad/cash grab is something I dislike greatly, but I'll end this here pre-rant. | |
Champion of Prit(Wemic vindication is here)
Minneapolis/St. Paul area
Completed trades: Aspect of Cheese (Love that moniker), Tickparasite, Elderthing, Lalato, Sodj, Grimoire, SmilinIrish, Zeb, RWarehall,Link, wikkawikkawa, Auramancer, Rommers, HK, Ivid5,Qillan_dvra, Puggins, Arcabius, Ironfist Boulderbender, Robby, Corim Danex, monster_slayer, DNDJUNKIE, Kelemvor, Krush, ckissee, Massawyrm, hockey fan, Wish, Uninspiring Lieutenant, vtloon x2, Vrecknidj, Darthpoke, WakeXX, AnarionZell, lycusmike, papabear5 and umpteen local trades with board members
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PatEllis15
Commander
4462 Posts
| | 03/15/2006 6:52 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by mdonais
quote:
Originally posted by PatEllis15
I'd be careful not to assume to much. The date given is the 12th, and I find it hard to believe that they would do the Grinder on Thursday, and Championships on Friday.
There will be overlap, but those who have 2 losses in the Championships by Noon, will probably know that they are out of the running, and "could" then jump on over to DB.
That is exactly how SWM and AAM worked at the last 2 GenCon's.
Pat E
You are right about how SWM and AAM worked but I am told that Dreamblade will be different.
I am told the grinder will be on thursday and the championship will be on friday.
I haven't seen the schedule in writing yet but I have been told this in no uncertain terms by OP. So, you can play in both if you like. You will have to squeeze in practicing for Dreamblade after winning the championships though.
Oh, man.... Thanks for the insight Mike. If the Grinder starts early, it likely won't have the same level of particiation... I know a lot of people arrive early on Thursday, but it can be hard to get there and ready to play before 10 or 11.
Guess I better just get myself qualified locally this time!
Hmmmm... MaxMinis on Saturday night, could get impacted.
MIKE: Can you let us know how long a tournament round of Dreamblade is? (i.e. how long will swiss take with 500 players!)
Pat E | |
"Games evolve. Otherwise we'd still be pushing rocks around the dirt. What do you think the cavemen said when some dude showed up with sticks?" - Chairman7w | |
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Mindtrick
Warrior
233 Posts
| | 03/15/2006 8:53 PM |
| Mike-
I am not sure what you meant in your post about the scheduling of events for GenCon.
Are you saying that the DDM Gridner will be on Thursday and the DDM Championship will be on Friday with the top 8 duking it out on Saturday? Is that when our schedule may conflict with the Dreamblade Release Tournament?
If all of this is true then we could hold the Maxminis event later in the evening on Saturday or just carry it over to Sunday. | |
**overlong signature deleted. Please see posting guidelines** | |
| The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 03/15/2006 10:06 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by mdonais
quote:
Originally posted by PatEllis15
I'd be careful not to assume to much. The date given is the 12th, and I find it hard to believe that they would do the Grinder on Thursday, and Championships on Friday.
There will be overlap, but those who have 2 losses in the Championships by Noon, will probably know that they are out of the running, and "could" then jump on over to DB.
That is exactly how SWM and AAM worked at the last 2 GenCon's.
Pat E
You are right about how SWM and AAM worked but I am told that Dreamblade will be different.
I am told the grinder will be on thursday and the championship will be on friday.
I haven't seen the schedule in writing yet but I have been told this in no uncertain terms by OP. So, you can play in both if you like. You will have to squeeze in practicing for Dreamblade after winning the championships though.
My god, I dont want to grind this year, thursday will kill me even quicker :P | |
Im out- find me on Hordelings if you want to chat. | |
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rickert
Skirmisher
9 Posts
Indiana
| | 03/15/2006 10:11 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Thailfi
This seems like a huge risk for WOTC. Competing against themselves with a product that only has a chance of appealling to half of their current customer base. Not only that, they seem to be investing in the new line much more heavily than they did DDM. Are they counting on appealing to a wider base of fans?
As an RPG collector only, I can tell you for a fact that this new product has a 0% chance of getting me to spend even a single dollar on it. I hope they don't fracture their market so much that all of their mini products go down the tubes.
I certainly don't believe and I'm sure WOTC doesn't either, that this new game will only appeal to people who are already buying WOTC miniatures. If that were true then SW minis and A&A minis would have already killed D&D minis. | |
Rick Teverbaugh
WOTC Delegate
Dreamblade Rules Advisor | |
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rickert
Skirmisher
9 Posts
Indiana
| | 03/15/2006 10:21 PM |
| As a Delegate I have to say that whatever is being done with DreamBlade has nothing to do with what is or isn't being done with DDM. It seems to be the prevailing opinion that WOTC has this big pot of money and they decide which game gets what portion of it. It really doesn't work that way.
Established games get support in relationship to sales and the number of OP events that are held and the number of players in those events. New games get money for support from startup costs completely seperate from the money used for established products. If WOTC wants DreamBlade to be a hit, they have to look at what they've done and not done in the past and they have to look at what's been done by other companies with new products.
In my opinion Vs got off to a huge start because of the ridiculous cash prizes offered. Also in my opinion the money had to keep flowing there because the game wasn't that good once the new players got there so the money was the only reason to stay in large numbers. I'd be surprised if WOTC didn't watch that game closely, especially the early sales of it. Now they'd probably like this game to take off in a similar manner but they're also hoping that they have a better product and that players will stay for the game and not just the money. | |
Rick Teverbaugh
WOTC Delegate
Dreamblade Rules Advisor | |
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